Mig-29 – New Striker for Indian Air force

p2prada

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Only a few Jaguars, I guess 10, have the 2032 radars. This is meant for the anti shipping role. The 2032 replaced the older Agave radar which was present on 12 Jaguar IMs. Sea Eagle CM was replaced by the Harpoon.

Other than that no other Jaguar has a radar.
 

ace009

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The Jaguars are for deep strike mission in IAF - right?
The Jaguars do carry a NavWASS [Navigation and Weapon-Aiming Sub-Systems] for navigation and weapons aiming - but without Radars, I guess their effectiveness is rather reduced. No plans for induction of multi-mode radars on the IS Jaguars during the engine upgrade - right?
 

Kunal Biswas

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The Jaguars are for deep strike mission in IAF - right? The Jaguars do carry a NavWASS [Navigation and Weapon-Aiming Sub-Systems] for navigation and weapons aiming - but without Radars, I guess their effectiveness is rather reduced. No plans for induction of multi-mode radars on the IS Jaguars during the engine upgrade - right?
This is new to me, though there are no plans to induct Radars on Jags, Hope to see MRCA replace these..
 

p2prada

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The Jaguars are for deep strike mission in IAF - right?
The Jaguars do carry a NavWASS [Navigation and Weapon-Aiming Sub-Systems] for navigation and weapons aiming - but without Radars, I guess their effectiveness is rather reduced. No plans for induction of multi-mode radars on the IS Jaguars during the engine upgrade - right?
No. You need to read a bit about the Death Dot. No aircraft needs a radar for performing the strike mission.

But yeah, the problem comes in finding targets like SAM sites which are well protected.
 

noob101

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The Sukhoi is the backbone of the fleet, the Rafale will be the secondary.

The mig 29, mirage 2000, mig 27, jaguar, and mig 21 are all undergoing mid life refits.

Sometimes I wonder.....


Wouldn't it be easier to take all the upgrade money for the mig 29, mirage, jag, mig 21, and mig 27 and just use that money for more MKI's and Rafales?

HAL could focus on making 2 excellent 4++ gen planes (MKI Rafale) at a rate of 40+ a year and the IAF could slowly phase out the old aircraft and simplify the fleet.

I know it must seem oversimplified, but considering the costs of upgrades, spares for multiple planes, training required etc. I think it could have worked. I always wondered why the IAF had such a diverse fleet. It seems over complicated and slapped together. A bigger fleet of fewer types with the same or even more capabilities would be much less expensive, easier to service, and would also be easier to train for.
I feel you are partially right.... mig 27 and jaguar are little more thank scrap metal in my opinion.... with the addition of mmrca they should be retired...... mig 27's are on the way to retirement but I feel the IAF will still operate some Jaguars the 1997/98 batch that HAL produced is about a squadron in strength, I think the IAF will keep these until 2030 in maritime strike role....

mig 29's and Mirage upgrades are necessary but I feel with the high cost of Mirage upgrades are too much and we might be better off with 2 squadrons of rafale for the same price... Upgrading the Mig 29 on the other hand was a very good move in my opinion not only is the price reasonable also they are best way to counter PAF F16's ..... There will also be many niche roles for the Mig 29's like escorting tankers and AEW&C etc......

I think most people will agree with me but Mig 21's have to go..... we need Tejas!!!!!
 

Tshering22

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The only roadblock IAF has to induct new jets in time is:

Red Tapism.

Get rid of this and in another 5 years, we would be having a swanky new air force.

Because of this crap called Bureaucracy, we are unable to:

- built assembling facilities in time.
- production lines for designed aircraft.
- timely acquisition of foreign aircraft.
- timely implementation of new doctrines.

I don't understand why HAL wants to stick with 50 year old stupid antiquated procedures when we're faced with an aggressive tyrannical enemy like the Reds. Somehow I get the impression that the MOD has forgotten our geography, looking at its callous and inconsiderate attitude towards air power development.
 

arya

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@KB your img collection is the best god work bro
 

Tshering22

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Awesome Kunal bhai!! Your posts are worth gold here. :D

BTW it would have been excellent if we had got this configuration for the Navy's MiGs as well. The hump is the extension of fuel tank that would enable the jet to go further in combat situations. It is something we could have asked the Russians to incorporate. A two seater MiG-29KUB is not really a good option considering that the life support systems for additional crew member makes it carry a relatively lesser payload and less fuel. So it would serve little purpose other than defense of on-surface vessels around Vikramaditya and Vikrant-II.

We should have considered the K variants in this configuration (structural).
 

Kunal Biswas

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I think its the weight issue they concern of, As the Aircraft use Ski jump..
 

fulcrum

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From a slender beauty



to a fat ugly bitch



MiG-29B is one of the most good looking fighters, sad to see it turn fat. But I guess a small price to pay for increasing its range. Heart broken, yet happy.

As for Jaguars

The closest one and the last 2 are the Ground Attack version. The rest inbetween are the Naval Strike version. The most striking feature, apart from the paint, is the presence of the di-electric radar cone(radar cone darker than the rest of the plane). The presence of the differently colored di-electric radar cone points to the presence of a radar. We have very few Maritime Jaguars compared to the radar-less version.
 

arya

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how capable is mig29 to go deep in china and will come back safe
 

ace009

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Go deep in China? The Mig-29 is not a deep strike aircraft. It has relatively short legs, does not have good stealth features and if loaded with external fuel tanks, cannot carry a lot of A2G and A2A missiles. It is better suited for air defense and maybe used for air support.
 

indian_sukhoi

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MiG-29s were never designed to for deep penetration role, IAF will use MiG-29 for Air-Superiority roles at most!!

These MiG-29SMTs will provide fighter escorts to attack aircrafts like MiG-27 and Jaguars. Back in Kargil War, MiG-29s were used has air cover against PAF F-16s.

Best thing about Mig-29, Is its short takeoff and thrust to weight ratio. The engine power could send climb height and capable enough to do extreme maneuvers.




Btw, Got some few question regarding about MiG-29 and its upgradations
- How much change the new Zhuk-ME could bring compare to present IAF MiG-29 radar?. Both the radars are BVR capable, Even if the Zukh-ME model has far better range but still in the end it has to launch the R-77 at same range.
- What about EW systems, Are they russian or Israeli? I Hope the new Migs are fitted with best ew systems available.
- Are the present non-upgraded MiG-29s acapable to launch anti-radiation missiles?
 

p2prada

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Btw, Got some few question regarding about MiG-29 and its upgradations
- How much change the new Zhuk-ME could bring compare to present IAF MiG-29 radar?. Both the radars are BVR capable, Even if the Zukh-ME model has far better range but still in the end it has to launch the R-77 at same range.
Range isn't a lone factor. The new radar adds 10-20Km extra on range btw. But there are other modes available that did not exist before, including better ECCM capabilities. A SAR mode and strike capability is an added feature.

- What about EW systems, Are they russian or Israeli? I Hope the new Migs are fitted with best ew systems available.
Not much is known as of today.

- Are the present non-upgraded MiG-29s acapable to launch anti-radiation missiles?
No.

Some details about the upgrade.
http://igorrgroup.blogspot.in/2011/02/mig-29upg-detailes.html
 

fulcrum

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Best thing about Mig-29, Is its short takeoff and thrust to weight ratio. The engine power could send climb height and capable enough to do extreme maneuvers.
That's was what MiG-29 was designed for. Its capability to operate from rough make shift short airfields is one of its key strengths. Those are things which the MKI cannot do. Also MiG-29 is the highest Thrust to Weight ratio plane in the IAF. I remember back in 2003, when one of the BRF-ite heard about the MKIs vs -29s dogfight when chatting with a pilot. MKIs being made out to be a super fighter back then he expected MKIs to prevail. Much to every ones amazement MiG-29s owned MKIs ass in guns only. Only when MKIs reached Bingo fuel did they put up a challenge. There were also Short range missile dogfights, however, those results were not shared.

Btw, Got some few question regarding about MiG-29 and its upgradations
- How much change the new Zhuk-ME could bring compare to present IAF MiG-29 radar?. Both the radars are BVR capable, Even if the Zukh-ME model has far better range but still in the end it has to launch the R-77 at same range.
- What about EW systems, Are they russian or Israeli? I Hope the new Migs are fitted with best ew systems available.
- Are the present non-upgraded MiG-29s acapable to launch anti-radiation missiles?
Zhuk-ME in the UPG upgrade has a look up range of 120km for a 5m2 target.

IAF MiG-29Bs had N019EB Sapfir Radar which is the non-warsaw pact export variant of N019 radar. N019EA is the export variant for warsaw pact countries. EA lacked 1 mode, while EB also apart from lacking the above mentioned mode, also lacked ECCM features, downgraded processor and datalinking. But some 10 additional MiG-29Bs were procured in 1994 which came with new N019ME Topaz(N019ME is the slightly downgraded export variant of N019M meant for MiG-29S).

N019EB under best weather conditions had a detection range of 70km for 3m2 target in look up(79.5km for 5m2 target) and can only engage 1 target at a time. N019ME under best weather conditions had a detection range of 80km for a 3m2 target in look up(91km for 5m2 target) and can engage 2 targets at a time. Zhuk-ME can engage 4 targets at a time and under best weather conditions has a detection range of 120km for a 5m2 target in look up. So that's an advantage of 30km when compared with Topaz and 40km when compared with Sapfir. The Junk Fighter 17's KLJ-7 has a look up detection range of 75km for a 3m2 target(85km for 5m2 target) under best weather conditions & can engage 2 Targets simultaneously. F-16 Block 52's APG-68(V)9 has a look up detection range of 105km for 5m2 target under best weather conditions.

It was one of those 10 MiG-29s, which in Kargil shocked the hell outta PAF and their F-16 dream machine, plus put one of their pilots in a trauma, when during CAP/Escort locked on to 2 PAF F-16s which had been scrambled to shoot down the MiG-27s which were making short passes into PoK when they were bombing crap outta the NLI.

There were rumours that after the Kargil war the rest of the MiG-29B fleet was upgraded to Topaz, but given the fact that UPG upgrade was signed less than a decade after the rumors, it is highly unlikely that the N019EB was junked in favor of N019ME.
 
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fulcrum

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Even if the Zukh-ME model has far better range but still in the end it has to launch the R-77 at same range.
You have to understand that the ranges quoted in the brochures are the best achieved ranges, probably taken at high altitudes where the air is less denser. Say if a war happens during monsoon season, the rain droplets induced atmospheric attenuation would decrease X-band radar ranges like crazy. AWACS's L-band radars would be slightly affected but not as much as X-band fighter plane radars.

What about EW systems, Are they russian or Israeli? I Hope the new Migs are fitted with best ew systems available.
They are Israeli. It's confirmed.

- Are the present non-upgraded MiG-29s acapable to launch anti-radiation missiles?
To the best of my knowledge, no.
 

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