Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Damian]

~680mm figure is for 1991 desert storm M1A1(HA) with DU armour, original 1980s M1A1 abrams had "less" protection.
afaik, original M1 had about ~450mm front turret armour vs KE.M1A1 had more, probably in range 500-600mm vs KE

I was talking only about M1A1HA which was fielded in 1988, tough it's protection is still mystery, it seems that perhaps there were different batches with different protection levels, and protection was increased in 1990's production batches.

 

[militarysta]

For comparrision, the most modern Soviet APFSDS at the end of 1980's were BM32 and BM42.

BM32 could penetrate depending on source ~560mm to ~570mm @ 2000m.
BM42 ~520mm to ~580mm @ 2000m depending on source.

As for tungsten penetrator used in tests, we have several options.

It might have been never fielded by US Army M827, or something from Germany, most likely DM33.

DM33 dependin on source is estimated to have capability to penetrate ~550mm to ~600mm @ 2000m.

So preaty much, all these types of ammunition were capable to perforate a weakened armor after several hits of different ammunition types.

Damian all those penetration values are overestimated
3BM42 is 460-520mm RHA 3BM32 is smaller to. And M829 is smaller to
but I Agree that those test where done on single turret part until armour was completly desintegrated and torn apart.

 

[Damian]

Well yeah, you are probably right about penetrations values.

 

[militarysta]

Well yeah, you are probably right about penetrations values.

maybe its not perfect but rather bettrr then collins or other gamers data

 

[militarysta]

more or less M829 should be very
simmilar to DM33A1 so 540mm max
and if rhose armour was tested against
M829A1 what is very posible then max 620mm and rather close to guaranteed circa 560mm

 

[Damian]

On the other hand, it seems that British MoD is preparing modernization of Challenger 2 tanks. From informations on TankNet, one of possible upgrades is new 1500HP engine, that is tested on the CRARRV.

 

[The Last Stand]

On the other hand, it seems that British MoD is preparing modernization of Challenger 2 tanks. From informations on TankNet, one of possible upgrades is new 1500HP engine, that is tested on the CRARRV.

Good for them. Can you post a source or some information and some pictures regarding the Engine?

 

[Dejawolf]

I was talking only about M1A1HA which was fielded in 1988, tough it's protection is still mystery, it seems that perhaps there were different batches with different protection levels, and protection was increased in 1990's production batches.

yes you are correct, M1A1HA was fielded in 1988. before that it was M1A1 in 1985 and M1IP in 1984.

 

[Dejawolf]

Damian all those penetration values are overestimated
3BM42 is 460-520mm RHA 3BM32 is smaller to. And M829 is smaller to
but I Agree that those test where done on single turret part until armour was completly desintegrated and torn apart.

figures from fofanov: 125MM APFSDS ROUNDS

450mm@2000m for 3BM-42 and 500mm@2000m for 3BM-32.

 

[hest]

was the M1A1 tested, having the HA armour package or not?

Yes, it is stated, heavy armour variant with DU.

And hest, as Damian mentions, they fired at the armour till it disintegrated, so your argument is superflous even if the test tank was the normal M1A1.

He missunderstood or did not read the document

"Based on the circumstances surrounding each of the two impact breakthroughs for which samples inside the vehicle were collected. (...) the round fired for the second event was a non-DU KE round, and the DU turret armor package impacted was impacted for the first time."

120 mm DU KE round breakthrough, reached the crew compartment, throught armour which have been impacted 2 times (and maybe not by the same round).

120 mm Non-DU KE round breakthrough, (probably Alliant, similar to M829) reached the crew compartment being the first impact.

Hellfire warhead breakthrough, reached the crew compartment and set the tank on fire, but it is not said it was after multiple hits.

 

[hest]

Penetration against tank armour is more complex than comparison of steel values. 3BM42 round against armour structure:

Penetration:

7-layer target under 30 degrees incidence (thickness, 630 mm), from 3300 m
7-layer target under 60 degrees incidence (thickness 620 mm), from 3800 m
3-layer target under 65 degrees incidence (thickness 1830 mm), from 2700 m

 

[Damian]

He missunderstood or did not read the document

I read the document, and not misunderstood.

Either way this test is not fully described, is interesting but any conclusions can't be made.

 

[cobra commando]

Russia's Next Generation
Battle Tank To Be Unveiled
This Year



Russia's Next Generation Battle Tank To Be Unveiled This Year

 

[Damian]

Of course it will be shown to selected officials... how predictible they are.

 

[Damian]

UK Armed Forces Commentary
DE&S highlights industry opportunities on UK armour programmes - News - Shephard

At the above links you can find some informations about Challenger 2's modernization that is currently in conceptual phase.

 

[Dejawolf]

Still, no details really, no distance, no hit angle, ammunition designation codes not known.

I would not make any claims about armor protection based on this document.

Correction:

It seems there were indeed 3 penetrations, but it says that these were 3 last tests, also report says which means that they were just firing large amount oif ammunition in to a single test target, and penetration, called "breakthrough" in report as per document, occured during last 3 test shots.

To say it simple, they were firing in to armor until it started to disintegrate.

the tests were done in 1989, the M829A1 was fielded 1 year prior in 1988. it's highly likely this is the round used in the tests.
M829A1 should have a P0 of around 700mm or so, vs 600mm for the M829.

 

[Damian]

the tests were done in 1989, the M829A1 was fielded 1 year prior in 1988. it's highly likely this is the round used in the tests.
M829A1 should have a P0 of around 700mm or so, vs 600mm for the M829.

It might be, I wonder what WHA APFSDS they used... well we will probably know any details from these test concerning the actuall armor-projectile interactions.

 

[farhan_9909]

interesting found this on the other forum

Myanmar Army getting Al-Khalid \ MBT-2000 Tanks?[/SIZE]

Recently, Myanmar Army posted a video of what appears to be a Al-Khalid \ MBT-2000 under trial in Myanmar.

China Defense Blog: Myanmar Army getting MBT2000 / VT1A?

 

[Damian]

Knowing close relationship of Myanmar and PRC it won't be strange if such tanks would not be sold to them.

 

[farhan_9909]

Knowing close relationship of Myanmar and PRC it won't be strange if such tanks would not be sold to them.

will they offer it to myanmar in Aid/Free or charge them.
will see this
Because bangladesh paid upto 3.7millions to 4millions per tank with Ukrainian powerpack and rest of chinese components.