M4 Rifles for Army SF Units

[sasi]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

After finding faults in afghanistan colt m4 is updated after receiving feedback from soliders. It seems it is now ok. Our sf orders some guns. I believe it is updated version.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

@Immanuel, how you know that is choice of SF ?

 

[Mangal]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

M-4 was used by our units for a long time, I repeat again M-4 has many variants, buying a new variant knowing they operate it already only means they are happy with it you silly boy. a choice made by our own units only means they know what they are doing, I understand our SF units to be professional enough to know what they are buying. You hardly understand that its not about what you or me like, it is about what they choose. so stop bitching. Respect the choices the professionals make.

What can one expect from a bafoon? buffoonery! In your whole argument for advocating the case of purchase of colt M4 by SF you have willingly ignored the role played by middilemen, arms dealers and agents. Do you seriously believe that all defence purchases happen purely based on the requirements of armed forces? A nut case can you can never see the big picture, simply because he lacks the knowledge and mental ability to do so.

 

[Immanuel]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Firstly, learn to spell, but then again what can one expect from an unpad gawar. You really are dumber than expected. This is a FMS deal and is a Govt to Govt deal signed with the Army's request. FMS has no middlemen you silly piece of donkey excrement.

Osama-Killer Rifles for Army SF Units

It is obvious the Army was involved in the purchase and they know what they are doing. They haven't clarified which version they have aquired and they are acquiring them in enough numbers for all the existing 8 and eventually 10 battalions.

So yet again I will say it since you seem to be mentally challenged, I hardly give a flying f*** about your opinion, the Army has made it's choice and they are professionals. I trust them to know what they are doing.

 

[Mangal]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Firstly, learn to spell, but then again what can one expect from an unpad gawar. You really are dumber than expected. This is a FMS deal and is a Govt to Govt deal signed with the Army's request. FMS has no middlemen you silly piece of donkey excrement.

Osama-Killer Rifles for Army SF Units

It is obvious the Army was involved in the purchase and they know what they are doing. They haven't clarified which version they have aquired and they are acquiring them in enough numbers for all the existing 8 and eventually 10 battalions.

So yet again I will say it since you seem to be mentally challenged, I hardly give a flying f*** about your opinion, the Army has made it's choice and they are professionals. I trust them to know what they are doing.

Its spelled
unpad = Unpaid.
aquired = acquired :cool2:

Your language and the manner in which you are trying to force your false beliefs down other throats reflects the filthy background you come from.
And by the way, FMS does not gurantee unbiased puchases. Infact its more suspicious way of purchase of arms and armaments since there is no RFI issued to multiple vendors inviting bids and the deal is signed without inviting competitive bidders from various companies and countries to compete for the contract on the basis of pre-measured requirements and specifications of the armed forces. FMS involves several bureaucratic channels and bureaucrats which are famously called "Babus" and known for their money hungry attitude. A similar deal (though not FMS) was signed between India and Russia for Admiral Gorshkov. We all know the outcome.

And what did you say about "not giving a flying f@#$^" you piece of shit? So you are new species? A monkey with wings.

 

[Immanuel]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Anyways I am glad the IA went for the M4, its a good weapon, easy to operate, many reliable versions out there, hope they give out more info on which versions were acquired and their associated attachments.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@Mangal & @Immanuel

Continue discussing here, there are good info provided about problems on regular M4 used by Indian Para..

 

[abingdonboy]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Its spelled
unpad = Unpaid.
aquired = acquired :cool2:

Your language and the manner in which you are trying to force your false beliefs down other throats reflects the filthy background you come from.
And by the way, FMS does not gurantee unbiased puchases. Infact its more suspicious way of purchase of arms and armaments since there is no RFI issued to multiple vendors inviting bids and the deal is signed without inviting competitive bidders from various companies and countries to compete for the contract on the basis of pre-measured requirements and specifications of the armed forces. FMS involves several bureaucratic channels and bureaucrats which are famously called "Babus" and known for their money hungry attitude. A similar deal (though not FMS) was signed between India and Russia for Admiral Gorshkov. We all know the outcome.

And what did you say about "not giving a flying f@#$^" you piece of shit? So you are new species? A monkey with wings.

Sir the FMS route cannot be compred to the c0ck-up govt-govt deal that was the VIKRAMDITYA fiasco. The FMS route is incredibly transparent and above board- the USG makes sure of this. You can slander govt-govt deals but leave the FMS to one side, this is a special case.

Also I have said before-NONE of us are SF operators or aware of all the facts. It is not unconceviable, especially with these useless "desi" media, that this has been mis-reported and the SF are getting a specific kind of the M4. The M4 designation within itself is an incredibly broad body of weapons. There could be special cases in this instance ie a very specific mission profile or some sort of follow-on deal as the PARA (SF) have been in service for more than 5 years now and the M16 was used by them before this since the late 1980s.


Until we have all the info we should refrain from getting so aggrevated or slandering the GoI/MoD/IA SF. This is ignorance.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Desi media did not reported any kind of variant, I highlighted on net about the variant used by our SF at MP & I told first its bad Rifle in IA inventory..

M16 was never used by PARA SF, From wherever you come to know its false..

Also I have said before-NONE of us are SF operators or aware of all the facts. It is not unconceviable, especially with these useless "desi" media, that this has been mis-reported and the SF are getting a specific kind of the M4. The M4 designation within itself is an incredibly broad body of weapons. There could be special cases in this instance ie a very specific mission profile or some sort of follow-on deal as the PARA (SF) have been in service for more than 5 years now and the M16 was used by them before this since the late 1980s.

 

[Mangal]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Sir the FMS route cannot be compred to the c0ck-up govt-govt deal that was the VIKRAMDITYA fiasco. The FMS route is incredibly transparent and above board- the USG makes sure of this. You can slander govt-govt deals but leave the FMS to one side, this is a special case.

Also I have said before-NONE of us are SF operators or aware of all the facts. It is not unconceviable, especially with these useless "desi" media, that this has been mis-reported and the SF are getting a specific kind of the M4. The M4 designation within itself is an incredibly broad body of weapons. There could be special cases in this instance ie a very specific mission profile or some sort of follow-on deal as the PARA (SF) have been in service for more than 5 years now and the M16 was used by them before this since the late 1980s.


Until we have all the info we should refrain from getting so aggrevated or slandering the GoI/MoD/IA SF. This is ignorance.

FMS can not be compared to other govt. to govt. deals but the manner in which this deal got executed is similar in some way or other to the case of buying Gorshkov. First of all there was no RFI issued and evaluation tests carried on regarding whether the rifle is upto the mark or not. A rifle which jams 882 times out of total 6000 rounds fired from ten individual rifles deserves a second thought before being purchased.
Secondly, One needs to take into account the geo-political factors which came into consideration before purchase was made. Indian govt. is continuously trying to compensate US after its loss in $ 10 bn MMRCA deal. It was bound to have an adverse effect between relations between both these countries. US Ambassador to India Timothy J. Roemer even had to resgine after the loss. In order to compensate for the loss of contract, US was preffered for supplying other military hardware. So, FMS in any way does not guarantee a clean and unbiased deal. I bet if Colt M4 was evaluated alongside other rifles it would have lost by considerable margin.

If one belives that some other rifle is being purchased, other than colt M4, then he or she is welcome to enlighten others by providing us the information along with the source.

 

[Ray]

I have nothing against getting new weapons as per the need.

However, what intrigues me is that the logistic support in the field will have to have a greater inventory and specialised mechanics to keep such weapons serviceable, adding to the tail at the expense of the teeth!

 

[ALBY]

There is no explanation for the acquisition of M4s by SF instead of HK416 except a small scam.Any way compared with other 5.56 weapons in the league M4s are very compact and pretty accurate.Where as others like SIG,FAMAS and g36 are quite heavier than m4.Also sky is the limit for the upgradatiion of an M4 by various addon gadgets like sights,rails,buttstocks etc.But in the dark side it has a history of jammings in the dusty battle fields of falluja and kandahar.Still it is nothing compared to an HK.
PS: i still believes that a compact weapon with lot of fire power like VZ is gonna miss the army.IA SF could have gone for the modified VZs used by the check spec ops in ASTAN.

 

[boris]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Desi media did not reported any kind of variant, I highlighted on net about the variant used by our SF at MP & I told first its bad Rifle in IA inventory..

M16 was never used by PARA SF, From wherever you come to know its false..

Depends on the operator, I remember asking a serving SF officer what he thought of the Tavor, he instead replied that he found the M4 better for his use and those who liked it have shifted to it, though Tavor is still the major weapon in Army SF. I can see you have issues with the M4 but that is your choice, I'd always prefer the M4 over the AK-47 especially if its is an HK-416 or LWRC M6, even a Canadian C8.

 

[boris]

There is no explanation for the acquisition of M4s by SF instead of HK416 except a small scam.Any way compared with other 5.56 weapons in the league M4s are very compact and pretty accurate.Where as others like SIG,FAMAS and g36 are quite heavier than m4.Also sky is the limit for the upgradatiion of an M4 by various addon gadgets like sights,rails,buttstocks etc.But in the dark side it has a history of jammings in the dusty battle fields of falluja and kandahar.Still it is nothing compared to an HK.
PS: i still believes that a compact weapon with lot of fire power like VZ is gonna miss the army.IA SF could have gone for the modified VZs used by the check spec ops in ASTAN.

The jammings were faced mainly due to improper care of the weapon and most complaints came from the regular Army and Marines. On the other side US Army SF and SEALs which still use the M4 since they take care of the weapon well don't face these issues much, although I remember it was the SEALs requirement for a weapon that could fire as soon as the broke surface out of the water on amphibious ops. which led to FN to design the SCAR. Delta and DEVGRU have moved to HK 416, whereas the SAS mainly uses the Canadian C8 carbine which I have heard is a very good weapon.

FAMAS is a weapon used by regular French forces whereas their SF and Commando Hubert use M4 and 416's.

The Vz is definitely an excellent weapon I'd use that over the AK-47 anyday. I have a friend in France who owns a lot of guns, he hates the AK-47 but owns a Vz and himself says its a much better rifle in the 7.62 Soviet round.

The problem with the AK-47 is its almost impossible to add NVD's,Holographic sights,PEQ's and UBGL's, luckily this can be done with the AK-103 which the MARCOS use a lot. I think a saw an Izmash commercial which displayed Spetsnaz Alfa group members(masked) firing these weapons with M4 like buttstock,EOTech sights and they had a hell lot of US equipment on them for a Russian SF , word is they have adopted glocks as sidearms.

Edit:Have added the Izhmash video I mentioned,

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Its not about my choice it about its reliability, Btw which branch of SF officer you talked to ?

M4 is not just unreliable but pose mortal danger in marine environment..

Depends on the operator, I remember asking a serving SF officer what he thought of the Tavor, he instead replied that he found the M4 better for his use and those who liked it have shifted to it

How many firearms you have fired yet ? just curious..

Where you come to know about such information..

the problem with the AK-47 is its almost impossible to add NVD's,Holographic sights,PEQ's and UBGL's, luckily this can be done with the AK-103 which the MARCOS use a lot.

 

[boris]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Its not about my choice it about its reliability, Btw which branch of SF officer you talked to ?

M4 is not just unreliable but pose mortal danger in marine environment..




How many firearms you have fired yet ? just curious..

Where you come to know about such information..

The officer detail's I am sending via PM.

I haven't fired many firearms, my father owns a .32 Spanish llama Pistol, I mainly shoot .177 Air Rifle and Pistol.

I have yet to see an AK-47 with NVD's and all, for that matter even an AK-74. I would not count any AK-100 series weapons when one mentions you can add all that stuff in an AK.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Firearm in military are not only for shooting but living a life with it, that means sleep with it, eat with it, drink with it in dust, mud, water, sand, What comes always first is the reliability then other qualities, INSAS & AK takes less than 30mins of cleaning and in field there is hardly time for cleaning..

If my Rifle dont work regardless of its other qualities its good as dead wood..

 

[boris]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Firearm in military are not only for shooting but living a life with it, that means sleep with it, eat with it, drink with it in dust, mud, water, sand, What comes always first is the reliability then other qualities, INSAS & AK takes less than 30mins of cleaning and in field there is hardly time for cleaning..

If my Rifle dont work regardless of its other qualities its good as dead wood..

I agree over here. BTW SLR vs INSAS which one do you like.

 

[sayareakd]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

Firearm in military are not only for shooting but living a life with it, that means sleep with it, eat with it, drink with it in dust, mud, water, sand, What comes always first is the reliability then other qualities, INSAS & AK takes less than 30mins of cleaning and in field there is hardly time for cleaning..

If my Rifle dont work regardless of its other qualities its good as dead wood..

Kunal sir just want to add that it is extension of your body, you you have to take care as you take care of yourself.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Assault Rifles for Indian Army

I was expecting Military firearms..

AKM / AK-47 in IA use thermal as well as other Optics, NV / Thermal on AK are used since last 12 years, Thermals used are foreign as well as Domestic, AKM / AK-47 also use variety of UBGLs, There are more Accessories of AK then AR-15 or based on firearms..

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I haven't fired many firearms, my father owns a .32 Spanish llama Pistol, I mainly shoot .177 Air Rifle and Pistol.I have yet to see an AK-47 with NVD's and all, for that matter even an AK-74. I would not count any AK-100 series weapons when one mentions you can add all that stuff in an AK.

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INSAS is better

I agree over here. BTW SLR vs INSAS which one do you like.