LCA Tejas vs JF-17 Thunder

[farhan_9909]

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...lca-tejas-vs-jf-17-thunder-19.html#post568143

Already posted.

91KN will make it equivalent (a little more for JF-17) in T/W to what's on the LCA Mk1 (85KN). The current LCA Mk1's empty weight is 6400Kg as of 4 or 5 months ago. To be further reduced by 100-200Kg before the first IAF version takes off.

Plz tell me how?
JFT and LCA weighs almost similar(empty weight).?i wont explain it further.rather would wait for your reply
Anyway, 91KN won't push JF-17 above 1, unless you discard weapons in your calculations.

]The only comparison between JF-17 and LCA is between the Block 3 and Mk2. Both B1 and B2 are not as good as Mk1 today. Mk1 is more advanced, both in terms of avionics and build quality. For one, the service life of LCA is far greater than JF-17's 4000 hours.

why they are nt as good?

while i think JFT 2 would be much superior to the LCA mk2 under development suppose to come up in service after 5 years atleast from now.while jft 2 within the 5 next month


anyway i wonder why you said so about the above twr query

 

[farhan_9909]

First , Provide the link which defines Finish Quality as one of the criteria to be 4th generation . its probably criteria in toy planes !
You think the people who can design and built fighter jet and RAM coating for it can not focus on finishing , if it is that important. Smoothness of surface is basic requirement in fluid dynamics.


Link

Now thats the skill ! Now compare this with your JF-17.

well i do know the above you posted from the past 3-4 years atleast

what is the %age of Composite in LCA?..45%?corrct me if i am wrong.till you confirm it i suppose it as 45%.

on the other hand in JFT 2 the use of composite would be to extent of 30-35%.bt just 700kg weight reduction

on what basis LCA lost 21% of weight reduction with 45% of composite use

leave all this

what kind of composite lca use.lets talk about that

As far as i know.correct me if i am wrong

Composites
1*increase airframe life
2*decrease weight as they are lighter
2*better strength on wing lonading(nt sure about this)

i am concerned with the point 2

Both JFT and LCA empty weight is about 6400kg

JFT 1 uses 8-14% composites
LCA mk1 uses 45%

LCA
Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)
Wingspan: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)
Height: 4.40 m (14 ft 9 in)
Wing area: 38.4 m² (413 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,560 kg (14,460 lb)

JFT
Length: 14.93 m (49 ft[9])
Wingspan: 9.45 m (31 ft, including 2 wingtip missiles.[9])
Height: 4.72 m (15 ft 6 in[9])
Wing area: 24.4 m²[137] (263 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,586 kg (14,520 lb[9])

Apart from wing area JFT has a longer length(yes it indeed contribute to more weight[1]),More wing span[1],Height

exclude the 158kg more LCA mk1 more fuel capacity


Conclusion

this gives possibilities as

*Either HAL/ADA is lying.nothing like composite materials are used in LCA
*Third Grade or low quality composite materials are used

anyway

 

[farhan_9909]

yes i dont have doubt that service life of LCA may be better

bt as far as i know one of the prototypes has already been marked to museum.

though all of the prototypes/LSP's has just clocked 2k hours mark..while the pt-06 in china alone as per chinese sources has completed close to 1100hours flight..

 

[gokussj9]

yes i dont have doubt that service life of LCA may be better

bt as far as i know one of the prototypes has already been marked to museum.

though all of the prototypes/LSP's has just clocked 2k hours mark..while the pt-06 in china alone as per chinese sources has completed close to 1100hours flight..

And the people on this forum think this inbred mofo is a liberal.
He has all the pakiness in his shit which he eats, but he hides
it under his sweet words like 'I love Bharat" and so on. Inside, he is
pretty much the same vermin whose rants I have observed on PDF.
BTW his signature on PDF is
"I agree india mightl have edge over pakistan in quality/quantity of aircrafts/Equipments bt they cannot import pilots from russia/israel.."

 

[Drona]

well i do know the above you posted from the past 3-4 years atleast

what is the %age of Composite in LCA?..45%?corrct me if i am wrong.till you confirm it i suppose it as 45%.

on the other hand in JFT 2 the use of composite would be to extent of 30-35%.bt just 700kg weight reduction

on what basis LCA lost 21% of weight reduction with 45% of composite use

Check Official Tejas website for Authenticity. TEJAS.GOV.IN

Conclusion

this gives possibilities as

*Either HAL/ADA is lying.nothing like composite materials are used in LCA
*Third Grade or low quality composite materials are used

anyway

Really !! Well I am not going to debate with you authenticity/credibility of HAL/ADA, DRDO etc. they are honest enough to accept failures and delays too.

But I have every reason to doubt credibility of any specifications about JF-17 ! Biggest lie is "JF-17 is Pakistan/ joint project" , it is all China.

Every claim about JF-17 is equivalent to LCA is just same old Pakistani Mentality "India can't be better than Pakistan".

 

[gokussj9]

Check Official Tejas website for Authenticity. TEJAS.GOV.IN



Really !! Well I am not going to debate with you authenticity/credibility of HAL/ADA, DRDO etc. they are honest enough to accept failures and delays too.

But I have every reason to doubt credibility of any specifications about JF-17 ! Biggest lie is "JF-17 is Pakistan/ joint project" , it is all China.

Every claim about JF-17 is equivalent to LCA is just same old Pakistani Mentality "India can't be better than Pakistan".

To all fellow Indian members, it is useless to reply to somebody
who is hellbent on eating shit from his ass. I am not sure how come this farhan_9909
shit is not banned yet since he does not bring anything on this forum.

 

[mikhail]

Plz tell me how?
JFT and LCA weighs almost similar(empty weight).?i wont explain it further.rather would wait for your reply
Anyway, 91KN won't push JF-17 above 1, unless you discard weapons in your calculations.



why they are nt as good?

while i think JFT 2 would be much superior to the LCA mk2 under development suppose to come up in service after 5 years atleast from now.while jft 2 within the 5 next month


anyway i wonder why you said so about the above twr query

again all these rantings are coming from you:blah::blah::blah:!i can only say that if JF-17 is superior than LCA Mk-2 then pigs can also fly in the sky!

 

[p2prada]

Plz tell me how?
JFT and LCA weighs almost similar(empty weight).?i wont explain it further.rather would wait for your reply

In your following post you posted LCA's and JF-17's weight specs. JF-17 weighs 6586Kg, could be the latest since your aircraft is operational. Comparatively LCA's weight figure is not the latest. It is around 6400Kg today and will reduce further to ~6200Kg. I think IAF wants weight to be lower, but that may be too unrealistic. So, that will bring the T/W to around the JF-17 with the 91KN engine. Btw, LCA Mk1s empty weight adds the weight of all the electronics that are available or being developed for it, including a full assortment of EW suite minus the jammer. JF-17 B1 does not have everything and B2 won't be a radical redesign of the aircraft like B3 will be.

why they are nt as good?

For the sake of early induction, B1's development was delinked from avionics. Just get the FBW, engine and airframe working and PAF was happy. There was no weapon integration, radar integration, nor was there any of the core electronics integrated that could set itself apart from a regular trainer. The weight of the JF-17 is also for the B1, without many of these electronics present. I think only the first version of KLJ-7 was present on it, maybe not.

Comparatively LCA's FBW is far more advanced, the engine is far more advanced (the most advanced F-404 version ever made) and so are the electronics which is currently undergoing their 2nd and 3rd generation upgrades. LCA's EW suite is a solid state suite, Mig-29 may carry something similar but also equipped with an AESA jammer. MKI and Jaguar may carry a further developed version of what's going inside the LCA Mk1, all internal suites. At the same time, LCA Mk1's suite will itself undergo more upgrades before induction, though it won't carry an AESA jammer like other aircraft, only receivers. This will include a LWS, MAWS, RWR and chaff dispenser.

JF-17 may not get any of these until B3 is out. Maybe, RWR and a chaff dispenser, but no LWS and MAWS for quite sometime, let alone solid state electronics. Surprise me if you can though.

Apart from that LCA Mk1 will carry the DASH 4/5 HMDS which is a generation ahead compared to DASH 3 or the JHMCS on your F-16 B52s, mated to Derby and R-73. No idea whether Python V or RVV-MD will be chosen since we don't have an indigenous WVR AAM program from what we know. But it is highly likely there will be an upgrade requirement to latest gen digital missiles compared to the old R-73. I am simply stating the obvious here. Python V is already an option that has not yet been exercised according to ADA's director and is the most likely option.

while i think JFT 2 would be much superior to the LCA mk2 under development suppose to come up in service after 5 years atleast from now.while jft 2 within the 5 next month

JF-17 B2 won't be impressive, internally or externally.

anyway i wonder why you said so about the above twr query

The thread was a comparative index between the two aircraft. Also you wrongly suggested T/W will be greater than 1. It won't unless you discard weapons.

JF-17
W = 6.56+2.3+0.9 = 9.76 tonnes
T = 9.28 tonnes with 91 KN engine.

T/W = ~0.95:1

LCA (today)
W = 6.4+2.46+0.7 = 9.56 tonnes
T = 8.67 tonnes with 85KN engine.

T/W = ~0.90:1

LCA (final)
W = 6.2+2.46+0.7 = 9.36 tonnes
T = 8.67 tonnes

T/W = ~0.92:1

So, you see how it is.

JF-17s weapons load is higher because I have considered two R-73 class missiles at 100Kg each and 4 SD-10A class missiles at an estimated 150Kg. Compared to LCA's 100 Kg Derby and R-73. Along with 100Kg for margin of error. Crude assessment, but this is the lightest both aircraft can get.

Btw, the excess weight of LCA primarily comes from the landing gear and extra requirements for EW systems and not the composite airframe. Even the engine is slightly heavier than what was originally planned for Kaveri, but it won't make a difference now. Take out the EW systems and LCA will be even lesser in weight. As for the undercarriage, that's what they are currently working on before IOC. So, add EW systems to your JF-17 that is at the same level as the LCA and there won't even be a decent comparison.

 

[venkat]

Farhan mian, If you put lot of putty aka lappam and paint over you can not see the rivets!!!!:thumb:

 

[farhan_9909]

@p2prada

such an reply was nt expected from you..

though i will reply to your post tomorrow.till than a good read about JFT avionics..doubt about maws.everything

www.-----------/forums/jf-17-thunder/71435-jf-17-thunder-information-pool.html

 

[farhan_9909]

@venkat sahab rivets are still visible on jft.so are on the European standard made Gripen.paint has nothing to do with this..neither anyone apply such an deep paint.


Bhai jaan paint ha koi plaster ni

 

[farhan_9909]

@p2prada

JFT most latest specs from Zhuhai 2012 nov

Note that JFT also can carry 600kg more load

Length: 14.0m
Height: 5.1m
Wingspan: 8.5m
Normal Take-off Weight: 9,100kg
Maximum Take-off Weight: 12,700kg
Maximum Thrust 8,700kg (afterburn)
Maximum External Stores: 4,600kg
Take-off and Landing Distance: 380/650m
Max Speed (mach): 1.6
Service ceiling: <16,700m
Ferry range: 2037km

 

[p2prada]

Didn't go through the entire thing you posted, but it seems JF-17 has a DAS now. That's fine. Next I wonder how much of a weight gain has happened once the avionics were added back to the program.

It is, for obvious reasons, hard to believe there was no weight gain since that empty weight of 6.5 tonnes was for a B1 aircraft introduced with the first squadron which did not have all the new systems, like a radar and DAS, that are being made operational now.

Quite funny how the Chinese source does not mention the actual empty weight of the aircraft, rather only the loaded weight. Let me tell you how it works if we compared the loaded weight as stated by ADA back in 2011 and the JF-17s loaded weight you posted.

For LCA, to get to loaded weight of 9.5 tonnes. It is 6.5 + 2.4 + 0.6.

Comparatively on JF-17. To get to 9.1 tonnes, 6.5 + 2.3 + 0.3.

Quite a big difference there. 400Kg extra even with full fuel. So, things don't seem to add up. Conclusion, JF-17 has become heavier, LCA has become lighter.

Personally, I think JF-17 is a much more useless program than LCA, if we take IAF's PoV or if we considered PAF was wealthier and had more choices. So, just because IAF does not seem to give more importance to LCA does not mean JF-17 is the better aircraft. Can't compare IAF's tastes to PAF's standards. So, you will have to look at both aircraft by being in the others shoes.

I don't mind changing my opinion if you can surprise me. As of now, it is at a lesser level as compared to F-16 B52, Mirage-2000UPG and Mig-29UPG.

 

[Tolaha]

JFT most latest specs from Zhuhai 2012 nov

Note that JFT also can carry 600kg more load

How does it carry more load with the same engine? Or have the Russians supplied a higher thrust engine?

 

[farhan_9909]

Nothing as such

JFT had complete a complete full avionics suite since 2007(late 2006)
i dont know from where you got that jft didnt had complete avionic suite since start.(radar,maws,etc).even i can show you test of P-04 and pt-06 with avionics from 2005-06

anyway. let me post A-Z the complete package of JF-17 avionics in detail

 

[farhan_9909]

All the sources i am will be posting/quoting are atleast 5-6years older

JF-17 is currently China's only advanced fighter developed in open. Many people use it to understand China's fighter development direction. The DSI change that started in June of 2004 caused many surprises, so did the Leading edge extension in September. Since 2006, JF-17 has been viewed even more when President Musharraf visited. CCTV showed brand new JF-17 04 with a previously unseen modern glass cockpit. This cockpit represent ourcountry's avionics level has reached world class. JF-17 showed 1 HUD and 2 MFD in the cockpit in previous displays. There were analog controls in the middle. The look was similar to F-16a/b. In 2004, zhuhai airshow showed a cockpit with 1 HUD and 3 MFDs. All the analog meters on the cockpit got replaced by digital control. Cockpit underwent a total digital information redesign. However, the model does not give people the good feeling that a real thing would.

Everyone knows that JF-17 is a China/Pakistan combined venture. JF-17's main aim is to equip PAF.In south Asian crisis, Pakistan receive American embargo. It not only failed to receive 79 F-16s it order, but also could not get spare parts to F-16. As a result, it had to order 80 F-7PG and some squadrons even got F-16s replaced by F-7PG. This is rarely seen in military aviation. JF-17's development is extremely urgent. Pakistan believes that JF-17's capability and price should be lower than F-16C/D, but capability should be higher than F-16A/B. Due to the anti-terrorism planning, PAF's importance got changed. America not only agreed to sell F-16, but also some advanced F-16s that it could not get before. Due to this pressure, JF-17's requirement got increased. It needs to be more advanced than F-16, that's why you see the whole change in 04.

The new cockpit's electronic system showed JF-17's modified capability. The new cockpit is very compact and functional position is positioned well and shows very mature system. 1 HUD is the main fighter display. This HUD has 24 degree in sight. It can add infrared signal? and supply flying, navigation, liftoff and landing info, it can also display target details and shooting detail. It can also communicate, navigate using the GUI There is a camera located above the HUD. It records HUD and external sights. HUD is the most important instrument in flight. Integrated informational level is dependent on this. Russia added some nice looking displays for su-30, but their display information is simple and information is spread. So, it did not really integrate the information. The JF-17 HUD uses a lot of digital processing and information integration information. For example, radar information, fight command info. HUD's controller has the ability to change display. Controller can also control all of the plane's dipslay. 3 MFDs are below the HUD. It is multi-colour LCD display. The dimension of the MFD is 20.3cmx30.6cm (note: this works out to be 8 x 12 inch, but a more realistic estimation is 6.25x8.25). The area is 4 times the previous area. The display brightness and contrast can be automatically adjusted. It also allows handle control. Each MFD displays important function. Display info can be changed. The control on the side acts as parameter design. Very often, left side shows weapon situation and numbers. Right side displays radar and combat info. The center shows some less important info, because it requires the pilot to lower his/her head. Like navigational info and map and so so. All the MFD can change to other info like radar, cockpit camera? and infrared picture and such. cockpit also allows night navigation and pilots can use night goggles to fly.

04 uses a hotas controller? pilot can keep hands on controller and still control the fighter's sensor mode, weapon and display. This greatly reduces a pilots movement and makes operation much easier. The controller does not affect the position in combat? Basically, allows pilots to keep the hand on the controller in combat. The earlier western 4th generation fighters like F-16A/B only had limited functions on the controller. JF-17 hotas uses advanced western design like F-16C/d, F-18C/D and Mirage2K5's newest model for design. Also, the system has different controls dependent on the hand size, length and finger size and length of the user. Basically, uses customizable controller. Allows a lot of activities done with limited energy. 04 uses all digital integrated electronic display. all computers/electronics uses 2 STD-MTL-1553B databus combined, curren info shared repository and shared data repository. According to demand, it also divides into weapons w/commands, radar, EW, communication, electronic control, payload control, FBW and so on. This avionics system's core lies in 2 advanced weapons controlling computer. these two computers do something... Each computer controls 1 double thick 1553B databus? This computer uses new structure system. It uses main controller rights to receive and process each system's info. At the same time, receive pilot's command. Uses command to control other systems. It's current world's most advanced input computer and main line integration web. Very few new fighters has this kind of complex and high speed system like typhoon, rafale and F-16 E/F. This system uses battle flight software package to exercise control and allows using development of more detailed software package to improve fighter capability and work load. Weapon controlling computer directly connects to MFD's structure. It uses information from each system to display on the 1 HUD and 3MFDs. Radar system is another important part of JF-17. It's also a major commercial battle area. Pakistan used a lot of Grifo radar in the past on F-7s. JF-17 also was about to use this. Italy also pitted Grifo-S2000 (should be S7) in competition. China also provided a radar for customers. Domestic radar has good support for China's weapon systems and missiles. The current multimode PD radar has BVR capability, WVR capability and attack land and sea mode and other modes. Also has look down and shoot down capability even under disruptive environments below.

You can Track 10 targets from 40 scanned targets and handle 2 concurrent BVR engagement. The range vs 3 m^2 targets is larger than 75KM and look down
is larger than 45 KM. It is larger than 135 KM vs sea targets. 04's GPS navigation system replaced the traditional navigation system, greatly improved precision and reduced preparation time. Talks about GPs capability after this and how American military controls it. It also has other wireless navigation but not as precise as GPS.

JF-17's EW suite is very complex. It combines radar warning receiver and missile proximity receiver to form surveillence system and combined with ECM work. JF-17 uses uses something to diagnose RWR. It can receive a lot of information like fighter radar, missile seeker, A2S guidance radar and provides within 1.5 degree news. RAR has about 100+ radar info repository. It uses measured info to compare. detect the threatening origin and correct (radar type or fighter type?) and warning level. This repository can improve to 300. It can allow reprogramming, receive wartime newly discovered radar signal. 04's improved tail (backside" contains a missile proximity receiver. There will probably be two more put on the fighter for 360 degree coverage. It uses infrared and purple dual band imagine device. It has a purple red window? It can sense missile's rocket engine spoke from 20 KM in. It can correctly predict missile's location, trail and such. It can even estimate engagement time. It can be expanded to a fighter/missile recognition system. It can also provide some infrared imaging, communicate with RWR and hopefully can develop passive signal detection technology.

04's EW suite also has a ECM pod. It and the ECM on the tail provide joint work. ECM current uses traidtional infrared something? modern missile's countermeasure to this is getting stronger each day. To let this simple and cheap ECM achieve high efficiency shows system's level, RWR, MPR and such. This system is only equipped by rafale and F-22. F-18E/F and F-16E/F needs upgrade to have this. 04 should also have ECM inside of fighter. It uses modern ECM technology and uses precise tracking system. Can achieve the affect of large ECM machine with small equipment. This ECM is most modern active guided AAM. It can also counter gither radar lock and scan. It's mainly for PAF's enemy IAF's R-77 missiles.

To acommodate modern web of combat. 04 is equipped with 2 ECM vs radar tower and something else. It can receive datalink info from ground or AWACS. Other equippments include big air computer? and advanced digital processing signal and such. The electronic system stores everything, all the bugs and such. It can use computer to process this. Reduces ground maintenance.

It uses western standard MIL-STD-1760 to allow for integration of western weapons and can also get hooked on with Russian weapons. It will probably uses PL-9C, SD-10, PL-11, AIM-9L/M and AIM-7F. It also good use LGBs and possible A2G missile integration.

And this was what has been revealed back when PT-04 was tested for full avionics, and what is publicly available. Attached is the article in chinese for those in any doubt.

Just to refresh the memories of people.

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[farhan_9909]

post cleared for a more detailed intro



General overview















The PAC JF-17 Thunder, also known as the Chengdu FC-1 Fierce Dragon (simplified chinese 枭龙, traditional chinese 梟龍, pinyin:"Xiāo Lóng") [Note: Some analysts refer to the J-10 Vigorous Dragon (F-10 Vanguard) as the "Fierce Dragon".] in China, is a 4th generation single-seat multi-role fighter aircraft jointly developed by China and Pakistan. The "JF" and "FC" designations stand for "Joint Fighter" and "Fighter China" respectively. The first two aircraft were delivered to the Pakistan Air Force on 2007-03-12. Anon. (12 March,2007) [http://www.geo.tv/geonews/details.asp?id=3323¶m=1 Two JF-17s Delivered to Pakistan] . "GEO News".] The JF-17/FC-1 is designed to be a cost-effective plane which can meet the tactical and strategic needs of air forces of developing countries. On January 22 2008, Pakistan started serial production of the aircraft at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra. [ [Defence Security Report JF-17 production commences - Jane's Air Forces News ] ] [ [Pakistan Launches Production Of JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jets Urdu ] ] [ [DAWN.COM | Archive | Your Source of News on the World Wide Web Sub-assembly of Thunder aircraft begins at Kamra -DAWN - Top Stories; January 23, 2008 ] ] .


Development

The JF-17 is being built by China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC) and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC). Fact|date=March 2008

The project is expected to cost about US$500 million, divided equally between China and Pakistan, while each individual aircraft is expected to have a fly-away cost of US$8-15 million. The JF-17 Thunder initial development project was completed in a period of four years. Anon. (2003) [FC-1 / JF-17 Thunder JF-17 Thunder/FC-1] . "Global Security".] However, later improvements to the project has taken up more time. Pakistan has announced that it will procure 150, but this may easily go up to 300. The JF-17 will replace Pakistan's MiG-21-derived Chengdu F-7, Nanchang A-5 (Q-5) and Mirage III/V currently in service. Azerbaijan and Zimbabwe have each placed orders as well. 9 other countries which have expressed interest in purchasing the JF-17 are Bangladesh, Burma (Myanmar), Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, MalaysiaIqbal, Anwar. (Feb, 2005) [army Malaysia looks to Pakistan as source of armaments] . "Pakistan Military Consortium".] , Morocco, Nigeria and Sri Lanka, plus Algeria, which has reversed the decision of opting the latest MiG-29UBS.

In 1986, China signed an agreement with Grumman to develop an upgrade for the J-7 known as the "Saber II", the replacement of the abandoned "Super 7" upgrade of J-7. The program was cancelled in 1990, primarily due to worsening relations with the U.S. following the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989. However, CAC kept the program alive by providing low-level funding from its own resources.

After U.S. sanctions were imposed on Pakistan in 1990, Pakistan also became interested in the project.

The first prototype was rolled out on May 31 2003, conducted its first taxi trials on July 1, and made its first flight on August 25 of the same year. Prototype 03 made its first flight in April 2004. On April 28, 2006, Prototype 04 made its first flight with fully operational avionics.



The first JF-17 prototype aircraft (called FC-1) was rolled out in May 2003. It made its first flight in August 2003. Later on, two more prototype aircraft were added for basic structure, flight qualities, performance and engine flight testing while two prototype aircraft were involved in comprehensive avionics flight testing. The basic flight testing was completed in 2007 which also marked the arrival of JF-17 Thunder aircraft in Pakistan where it was formally presented to the nation as a Pakistan Day gift on 23 March 2007. A Test and Evaluation Flight was established at PAC Kamra which carried out the detailed operational evaluation of the aircraft as well as the training of ground and air crew. The JF-17 aircraft has been formally inducted in Pakistan Air Force by replacing A-5 aircraft of No 26 Squadron. The aircraft has already participated in Farnborough Airshow in UK and Zhuhai Airshow in China in 2010.

Production
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) holds the exclusive rights of 58% of JF-17 airframe co-production work. A comprehensive infrastructure comprising state of the art machines and required skilled human resource has very quickly been developed at the Complex.

The final assembly and flight testing of the aircraft was the first JF-17 co-production activity to start at PAC. The first PAC produced aircraft was handed over to Pakistan Air Force in November 2009. Since then, aircraft are being produced regularly to meet the required schedule. The co-production of sub assemblies and structural parts has also commenced and is sequentially attaining the sustained production status. Besides upgrading the production system, PAC has also upgraded its quality, technology and archive management systems to meet the production and management standards of a 3rd generation fighter aircraft.




Design

Looking at the status of the development's work, the fourth prototype version of the JF-17 Thunder combat jet has successfully completed its first operational flight in Chengdu, China, on Wednesday, 2006-03-10. Anon. (11 May, 2006) [Zulfiqar resigns, levels allegations against MQM and Malik - PakTribune 4th Prototype JF-17 Thunder aircraft successfully completed inaugural flight JF-17 Thunder] . "Pak Tribune".] The 4th prototype of the JF-17 Thunder combat jet is configured as a multi-role fighter-bomber and is capable of carrying multiple air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons. The fighter jet is equipped with advanced electronics and weapons systems. Pakistan received the first consignment of 2 aircraft on 2007-03-23, while the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra will start manufacturing the JF-17 in 2008. China will start official production in June 2007.

The fourth prototype version is said to be redesigned with F-35 style Divertless Supersonic Intakes (DSIs) being the most notable feature; according to Lockheed Martin, DSIs are more stealthy than other conventional air intakes as well as DSIs also divert turbulent boundary-layer airflow away from the engine inlet Anon. (12 May, 2006) [http://www.-----------/jf-17_thunder.html JF-17 Thunder] . "Pakistan Defence - JF-17 Multirole Aircraft".] Anon. (30 Dec, 2006)

Many advanced aerodynamic solutions of the modern contemporary fighters are embodied in FC-1/JF-17, i.e. moderate aspect ratio wing design, large strake wing sections, cambered twist wing profile, full span all moving automatic Leading Edge Flaps (LEF). These Characteristics provide FC-1/JF-17 excellent sub-transonic maneuverability and Short Take-off and Landing (STOL) capability.



At the Sixth Zhuhai Airshow in China, a Unit Training Device (UTD) appearing identical to the earlier mockup of the JF-17 was publicly displayed, and the manufacturer of the aircraft, along with other manufacturers of airborne weaponry, provided more detailed information on the projects:

Avionics

The software of JF-17 totaled more than one million lines of instructions, incorporating the concept of open architecture. Instead of using the common Ada, the programming language of JF-17 software is written in C++ instead. The reason for using C++ instead of Ada was due to practice of the commercial off-the-shelf to better utilize the large number of civilian software programmers available. The avionics of JF-17 prototypes was based on Motorola 88000 microprocessor originally, but can be changed to other types of the same class. The 4th prototype includes advanced avionics features such as:

Cockpit

* Electronic Flight Instrument System with cockpit displays that are compatible with western systems such as those built by Rockwell Collins and Honeywell.
**HUD is a state-of-the-art system developed by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC).
**All HUD and head-down displays are compatible with the standard electro-optical targeting pod that is carried externally.
**Many images/information can be displayed at the same time.
**The control panel consists of only 3 multi-function displays.
***All information is processed and displayed on them.
***Each screen's functions can be redefined individually, and are exchangeable.
***Brightness and contrast can be adjusted automatically or manually, and can be made compatible with night vision goggles.
***In mid-2007, Chinese state-run television station CCTV-7 aired the latest information on the EFIS of JF-17 with most conventional analogue dial indicators eliminated:
****It was shown that the EFIS of JF-17 consists of three large rectangular shaped color MFDs that appeared to be LCD. The MFD in the middle is in a lower position than the two on the side. Unlike most MFD with width greater than height, all MFDs on JF-17 appear to be rotated 90 degrees, i.e. with height much greater than width. A digital moving map display in Chinese is shown on the MFD to the right. However, other languages are also available, but it can be concluded for sure that English is definitely the dominant language.
****There is a monochrome up-front control panel (UFCP) directly under the HUD, above the MFD in the middle. Control buttons are arranged to the left and the right sides of the UFCP, while there are three lines of display similar to that of civilian hand-held scientific calculators in the center, providing information such as dates in English. It appears that the displays of UFCP can only display information in English.

*HOTAS control.
*Intelligent avionics.
**Avionics system is all-digital and fully integrated.
**Distributed structure with open architecture.
***Two independent but exchangeable (can back up each other) STD-MTL-1553B data buses connect all equipment, plus two powerful control computers (that can also back up each other).
***Each computer controls one data bus.
***The current MIL-STD-1553B data bus can be readily replaced by MIL-STD-1773 fiber optic bus, on customer request.
*The seat is inclined more than the normal 13/14 degrees.Fact|date=November 2007

Radar

Several radars have been tested onboard prototypes of JF-17, which includes:

;Chinese Nanjing KLJ-7 radar: Many radars on the JF-17 have been tested, and many were selected for the first batch of JF-17s/FC-1s. However, recently, it has been disclosed by PAF Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed that the supplied JF-17s to Pakistan have KLJ-7 radars. [ [JF-17 Arrived in Pakistan - MILAVIA Military Aviation News MILAVIA News - JF-17 Arrived in Pakistan ] ] [ [JF-17 Thunder Multi-role Fighter Aircraft JF-17.com : Your Best Resource for JF-17/FC-1 ] ] ;Israeli Elta EL/M-2032 radar: Two delivered to China before the sales stopped under U.S. pressure. At least one was installed on the first Chinese prototypes for testing and evaluation. There are unconfirmed reports that at least one unit was lost when a prototype crashed.;Russian Phazotron Super Komar radar: This is a development of the Komar (Mosquito) radar Russian offered to upgrade Q-5s and J-7s. The Komar itself is a development of the Phazotron Kopyo (Spear) radar offered for the MiG-21-93/98, with newer electronics to drastically reduce the weight by more than a third, from the original 125 kg of Kopyo to 80 kg. With the exception of the sector of scan increased to +/-60° from the original +/-40° of Kopyo, all the rest of the performance parameters of the Komar remained the same as those of the Kopyo. The Super Komar radar has improved capabilities over the Komar in that instead of being able to simultaneously track 8 targets and engage 2 of the tracked like the Komar and Kopyo, it can simultaneously track 10 targets and engage 4 of the tracked. It is reported, however, despite successful tests, that the radar was eventually rejected by both China and Pakistan, because the 60/40 km tracking/engagement range of the Super Komar radar was simply too short, and this was the reason why no more follow-up orders were placed.;Italian FIAR Grifo-S7 radar: Unlike the Russian Super Komar, the Italian radar lacks the capability of multi-target tracking and engagement via semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles. However, it does have multi-target tracking capability (up to 8) and single-target engagement capability via semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles and when using active radar homing air-to-air missiles, two targets can be simultaneously engaged. The radar weighs 110 kg and a slotted planar array antenna. This Italian radar has a higher MTBF than the Russian radar, up to more than 220 hours. Furthermore, the ISO-9002-certified radar and electronics manufacturing facility at Kamra of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex already had vast experience in license assembly / production of earlier Italian FIAR Grifo series radars for the F-7MP/P/PG, and the Italian radar would have an advantage over its competitors should assembly / production licenses be granted like it had been done earlier. This Italian radar emerged as the winner in the competition against the British Blue Hawk and the French RC-400 radars, and it was reported that at least several units would equip the very first JF-17s in Pakistani service.;British GEC-Marconi Blue Hawk radar: This radar is developed from GEC-Marconi's Blue Vixen radar on board the BAE Sea Harrier, with an MTBF of over 200 hours. The radar lacks the compatibility with semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles, and this was one of the reason it was rejected by Pakistan, but this capability can be incorporated up on customer's request. The radar weighs 104 kg and incorporates a slotted planar array. This British radar remains a potential candidate on export versions of the JF-17, should potential customers require a cheaper alternative to the Italian Grifo-S7 radar.;French Thomson-CSF RC-400 radar: This radar is developed from Thomson-CSF's RDY radar on board the Dassault Mirage 2000, with reduced peak power and maximum range due to decreased size and weight. Like the British GEC-Marconi Blue Hawk radar, this French radar was also rejected by Pakistan for lacking the compatibility with semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles, but Thomson-CSF had claimed that such capability could be readily incorporated upon customer's request. Another reason for Pakistani rejection of the radar was that, instead of being built to the MIL-STD-1553 standard, the French radar was built to the French DIGIBUS one instead, so extra work must be done for compatibility with MIL-STD-1553, thus increasing the cost. However, for potential customers who had been accustomed with French equipment, this French radar is a logical choice, because although the initial cost for installation is higher, the overall operational cost would be lower when the radar is compatible with all other French equipment in the inventory. For this reason, the RC-400 also remains a potential candidate for export versions of the JF-17 for possible future customers equipped with French systems.


KLJ-7 Airborne Radar
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex
Technical Specifications
The KLJ-7 is an X-band airborne fire-control radar (FCR) uses a mechanically-steered slotted array antenna. The KLJ-7 has multiple modes, both beyond-visual-range (BVR) and close-in air-to-air modes, ground surveillance modes and a robust anti-jamming capability. The radar can reportedly manage up to 40 targets, monitor up to 10 of them in track-while-scan (TWS) mode and simultaneously fire on two BVR targets.
* Frequency : X-band
* A mechanically-steered slotted array antenna
* 14 Operational Modes
* Range more than 100 km
* Total targets tracked: 10 in TWS (Track-While-Scan) mode
* Reliability:
o MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure): 220 hours
o MTTR (Mean Time To Recovery): 0.5 hours
* Weight less than 120 kg
* Composition
o Antenna Unit
o Receiver Unit
o Transmitter Unit
o Processor Unit
o Power Supply Unit
o Auxiliary Transmitter Unit






Head-up display (HUD)

When Chinese Su-30MKK and Indian Su-30MKI were deployed in the humid subtropical and tropical zones, both had experienced significant fogging problems for the Russian SILS-30 HUDs, which was originally designed for arid environment in arctic/subarctic zones, thus a great deal of effort was spent to solve this issue so that the holographic HUD of Chinese origin on JF-17 could be deployed in any environments like its western counterparts. Alternatively, western HUDs can be incorporated directly into the aircraft with little effort due to the modular design and the adoptation of MIL-STD-1553B. The Chinese designed HUD for J-10 has inherited Russian/Soviet tradition of doubling as a radarscope, enabling the pilot to keep his eyes focused at infinity while working with his radar at the same time, a feature originally reverse engineered from MiG-23s obtained from Egypt.Fact|date=August 2008 The Chinese further expanded this function to include the projection of monochrome images from electrical optical pods JF-17 carried, though the colored images from these electrical optical pods would still have to be displayed on the head down displays.

However, many domestic Chinese sources have claimed that based on the feedback of the Chinese, Pakistani and other foreign pilots invited to evaluate the system, the result of such attempt to combine the best of Russian/Soviet and western practices is mixed at the best. While pilots accustomed to Soviet fighters including MiG-23 and MiG-29 welcomed the move, many others were rather not impressed at all, feeling that it was nothing other than merely pasting a transparent map on the HUD, because there was no three-dimensional presentation that would accurately cue a pilot's eyes to look for a target as it appears in a particular direction/angle, so the overall true effectiveness was still rather questionable. Such claimed are supported by the official acknowledgement of the manufacturer when Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation publicly announced at 6th Zhuhai Airshow held at the end of 2006 that this function did not come as a standard feature. Furthermore, the unit training device (UTD) presented at the same airshow also lacked this feature. As of early 2008, this function of HUD doubling as a radarscope is marketed by the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation as an extra feature if the customer is willing to pay extra, rather than as a standard feature that comes with the aircraft. However, incorporating this feature might be helpful to attract customers who operates Soviet fighter with the same feature, such as MiG-23 and MiG-29.

Electro-optical systems

JF-17 is full compatible with the Chinese indigenously developed electro-optical (optronics) system originally developed for J-10 by Sichuan Changhong Electric Appliance Corporation. ( [博客营é"â‚¬,企业博客营é"â‚¬,微博营é"â‚¬,社会化营é"â‚¬,社会化åª'ä½"营é"â‚¬,社会化ç"ÂµÃ¥*å"¢" Ã¥Å Â¡Ã¨ÂÂ¥Ã©"â‚¬Ã¥Â¹Â³Ã¥ÂÂ°:企博ç½' 四川长虹电器股份有限公司] ) The domestic Chinese optronics system is more advanced than the Russian Izdeliye series which lacked the infrared imaging (ImIR) capability. The Chinese system is named as Type Hongguang-I Electro-optical radar (虹光-Ⅰ型光电雷达), with Hongguang meaning Rainbow Light, and it is a third generation optronics with ImIR capability and utilizes HgCdTe focal array, and received its certification on March 3, 2005 and subsequently entered service. A year later, the system was revealed to Chinese pubilc at the Conference on (Making) Sichuan Province a Strong Industrial Province ( [?????_?_??_ 四川工业强省工作会] ). During the conference that lasted from March 26 to March 31, 2006, many cadres attending the conference including the Sichuan provincial (communist) party secretary Zhang Xuezhong (张学忠) were shown and operated an actual system demonstrated at the conference. Type Hongguang-I Electro-optical radar is also designed to be compatible with H-6, JH-7, J-8, J-11 and other large aircraft. Based on the limited information released, Hongguang-I optronics has a maximum range up to 75 km, longer than the Izdeliye OLS-27 (36Sh) optronics with 50 km on Su-27, but shorter than the Izdeliye OLS-30 (52Sh) optronics on Su-30.

In comparison to Russian Izdeliye family of optronics such as OLS-27 (36Sh) on Su-27 and OLS-30 (52Sh) on Su-30 that weigh over 200 kg, the Chinese system is much more lighter and compact, but still not enough to be fitted into the nose of the aircraft when the current available radars are installed. As a result, only the podded version can be carried by earlier production models of JF-17. Many domestic Chinese sources have claimed that this is the reason why the radar selection of JF-17 has not yet been finalized, due to the need for a more compact and lighter one while maintaining the same capability at the same time in order to install the domestic optronics system internally like similar systems on F-14, MiG-29 and Su-27.

 

[farhan_9909]

post cleared for a more detailed intro



General overview















The PAC JF-17 Thunder, also known as the Chengdu FC-1 Fierce Dragon (simplified chinese 枭龙, traditional chinese 梟龍, pinyin:"Xiāo Lóng") [Note: Some analysts refer to the J-10 Vigorous Dragon (F-10 Vanguard) as the "Fierce Dragon".] in China, is a 4th generation single-seat multi-role fighter aircraft jointly developed by China and Pakistan. The "JF" and "FC" designations stand for "Joint Fighter" and "Fighter China" respectively. The first two aircraft were delivered to the Pakistan Air Force on 2007-03-12. Anon. (12 March,2007) [http://www.geo.tv/geonews/details.asp?id=3323¶m=1 Two JF-17s Delivered to Pakistan] . "GEO News".] The JF-17/FC-1 is designed to be a cost-effective plane which can meet the tactical and strategic needs of air forces of developing countries. On January 22 2008, Pakistan started serial production of the aircraft at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra. [ [Defence Security Report JF-17 production commences - Jane's Air Forces News ] ] [ [Pakistan Launches Production Of JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jets Urdu ] ] [ [DAWN.COM | Archive | Your Source of News on the World Wide Web Sub-assembly of Thunder aircraft begins at Kamra -DAWN - Top Stories; January 23, 2008 ] ] .


Development

The JF-17 is being built by China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC) and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC). Fact|date=March 2008

The project is expected to cost about US$500 million, divided equally between China and Pakistan, while each individual aircraft is expected to have a fly-away cost of US$8-15 million. The JF-17 Thunder initial development project was completed in a period of four years. Anon. (2003) [FC-1 / JF-17 Thunder JF-17 Thunder/FC-1] . "Global Security".] However, later improvements to the project has taken up more time. Pakistan has announced that it will procure 150, but this may easily go up to 300. The JF-17 will replace Pakistan's MiG-21-derived Chengdu F-7, Nanchang A-5 (Q-5) and Mirage III/V currently in service. Azerbaijan and Zimbabwe have each placed orders as well. 9 other countries which have expressed interest in purchasing the JF-17 are Bangladesh, Burma (Myanmar), Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, MalaysiaIqbal, Anwar. (Feb, 2005) [army Malaysia looks to Pakistan as source of armaments] . "Pakistan Military Consortium".] , Morocco, Nigeria and Sri Lanka, plus Algeria, which has reversed the decision of opting the latest MiG-29UBS.

In 1986, China signed an agreement with Grumman to develop an upgrade for the J-7 known as the "Saber II", the replacement of the abandoned "Super 7" upgrade of J-7. The program was cancelled in 1990, primarily due to worsening relations with the U.S. following the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989. However, CAC kept the program alive by providing low-level funding from its own resources.

After U.S. sanctions were imposed on Pakistan in 1990, Pakistan also became interested in the project.

The first prototype was rolled out on May 31 2003, conducted its first taxi trials on July 1, and made its first flight on August 25 of the same year. Prototype 03 made its first flight in April 2004. On April 28, 2006, Prototype 04 made its first flight with fully operational avionics.



The first JF-17 prototype aircraft (called FC-1) was rolled out in May 2003. It made its first flight in August 2003. Later on, two more prototype aircraft were added for basic structure, flight qualities, performance and engine flight testing while two prototype aircraft were involved in comprehensive avionics flight testing. The basic flight testing was completed in 2007 which also marked the arrival of JF-17 Thunder aircraft in Pakistan where it was formally presented to the nation as a Pakistan Day gift on 23 March 2007. A Test and Evaluation Flight was established at PAC Kamra which carried out the detailed operational evaluation of the aircraft as well as the training of ground and air crew. The JF-17 aircraft has been formally inducted in Pakistan Air Force by replacing A-5 aircraft of No 26 Squadron. The aircraft has already participated in Farnborough Airshow in UK and Zhuhai Airshow in China in 2010.

Production
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) holds the exclusive rights of 58% of JF-17 airframe co-production work. A comprehensive infrastructure comprising state of the art machines and required skilled human resource has very quickly been developed at the Complex.

The final assembly and flight testing of the aircraft was the first JF-17 co-production activity to start at PAC. The first PAC produced aircraft was handed over to Pakistan Air Force in November 2009. Since then, aircraft are being produced regularly to meet the required schedule. The co-production of sub assemblies and structural parts has also commenced and is sequentially attaining the sustained production status. Besides upgrading the production system, PAC has also upgraded its quality, technology and archive management systems to meet the production and management standards of a 3rd generation fighter aircraft.




Design

Looking at the status of the development's work, the fourth prototype version of the JF-17 Thunder combat jet has successfully completed its first operational flight in Chengdu, China, on Wednesday, 2006-03-10. Anon. (11 May, 2006) [Zulfiqar resigns, levels allegations against MQM and Malik - PakTribune 4th Prototype JF-17 Thunder aircraft successfully completed inaugural flight JF-17 Thunder] . "Pak Tribune".] The 4th prototype of the JF-17 Thunder combat jet is configured as a multi-role fighter-bomber and is capable of carrying multiple air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons. The fighter jet is equipped with advanced electronics and weapons systems. Pakistan received the first consignment of 2 aircraft on 2007-03-23, while the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex in Kamra will start manufacturing the JF-17 in 2008. China will start official production in June 2007.

The fourth prototype version is said to be redesigned with F-35 style Divertless Supersonic Intakes (DSIs) being the most notable feature; according to Lockheed Martin, DSIs are more stealthy than other conventional air intakes as well as DSIs also divert turbulent boundary-layer airflow away from the engine inlet Anon. (12 May, 2006) [http://www.-----------/jf-17_thunder.html JF-17 Thunder] . "Pakistan Defence - JF-17 Multirole Aircraft".] Anon. (30 Dec, 2006)

Many advanced aerodynamic solutions of the modern contemporary fighters are embodied in FC-1/JF-17, i.e. moderate aspect ratio wing design, large strake wing sections, cambered twist wing profile, full span all moving automatic Leading Edge Flaps (LEF). These Characteristics provide FC-1/JF-17 excellent sub-transonic maneuverability and Short Take-off and Landing (STOL) capability.



At the Sixth Zhuhai Airshow in China, a Unit Training Device (UTD) appearing identical to the earlier mockup of the JF-17 was publicly displayed, and the manufacturer of the aircraft, along with other manufacturers of airborne weaponry, provided more detailed information on the projects:

Avionics

The software of JF-17 totaled more than one million lines of instructions, incorporating the concept of open architecture. Instead of using the common Ada, the programming language of JF-17 software is written in C++ instead. The reason for using C++ instead of Ada was due to practice of the commercial off-the-shelf to better utilize the large number of civilian software programmers available. The avionics of JF-17 prototypes was based on Motorola 88000 microprocessor originally, but can be changed to other types of the same class. The 4th prototype includes advanced avionics features such as:

Cockpit

* Electronic Flight Instrument System with cockpit displays that are compatible with western systems such as those built by Rockwell Collins and Honeywell.
**HUD is a state-of-the-art system developed by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC).
**All HUD and head-down displays are compatible with the standard electro-optical targeting pod that is carried externally.
**Many images/information can be displayed at the same time.
**The control panel consists of only 3 multi-function displays.
***All information is processed and displayed on them.
***Each screen's functions can be redefined individually, and are exchangeable.
***Brightness and contrast can be adjusted automatically or manually, and can be made compatible with night vision goggles.
***In mid-2007, Chinese state-run television station CCTV-7 aired the latest information on the EFIS of JF-17 with most conventional analogue dial indicators eliminated:
****It was shown that the EFIS of JF-17 consists of three large rectangular shaped color MFDs that appeared to be LCD. The MFD in the middle is in a lower position than the two on the side. Unlike most MFD with width greater than height, all MFDs on JF-17 appear to be rotated 90 degrees, i.e. with height much greater than width. A digital moving map display in Chinese is shown on the MFD to the right. However, other languages are also available, but it can be concluded for sure that English is definitely the dominant language.
****There is a monochrome up-front control panel (UFCP) directly under the HUD, above the MFD in the middle. Control buttons are arranged to the left and the right sides of the UFCP, while there are three lines of display similar to that of civilian hand-held scientific calculators in the center, providing information such as dates in English. It appears that the displays of UFCP can only display information in English.

*HOTAS control.
*Intelligent avionics.
**Avionics system is all-digital and fully integrated.
**Distributed structure with open architecture.
***Two independent but exchangeable (can back up each other) STD-MTL-1553B data buses connect all equipment, plus two powerful control computers (that can also back up each other).
***Each computer controls one data bus.
***The current MIL-STD-1553B data bus can be readily replaced by MIL-STD-1773 fiber optic bus, on customer request.
*The seat is inclined more than the normal 13/14 degrees.Fact|date=November 2007

Radar

Several radars have been tested onboard prototypes of JF-17, which includes:

;Chinese Nanjing KLJ-7 radar: Many radars on the JF-17 have been tested, and many were selected for the first batch of JF-17s/FC-1s. However, recently, it has been disclosed by PAF Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed that the supplied JF-17s to Pakistan have KLJ-7 radars. [ [JF-17 Arrived in Pakistan - MILAVIA Military Aviation News MILAVIA News - JF-17 Arrived in Pakistan ] ] [ [JF-17 Thunder Multi-role Fighter Aircraft JF-17.com : Your Best Resource for JF-17/FC-1 ] ] ;Israeli Elta EL/M-2032 radar: Two delivered to China before the sales stopped under U.S. pressure. At least one was installed on the first Chinese prototypes for testing and evaluation. There are unconfirmed reports that at least one unit was lost when a prototype crashed.;Russian Phazotron Super Komar radar: This is a development of the Komar (Mosquito) radar Russian offered to upgrade Q-5s and J-7s. The Komar itself is a development of the Phazotron Kopyo (Spear) radar offered for the MiG-21-93/98, with newer electronics to drastically reduce the weight by more than a third, from the original 125 kg of Kopyo to 80 kg. With the exception of the sector of scan increased to +/-60° from the original +/-40° of Kopyo, all the rest of the performance parameters of the Komar remained the same as those of the Kopyo. The Super Komar radar has improved capabilities over the Komar in that instead of being able to simultaneously track 8 targets and engage 2 of the tracked like the Komar and Kopyo, it can simultaneously track 10 targets and engage 4 of the tracked. It is reported, however, despite successful tests, that the radar was eventually rejected by both China and Pakistan, because the 60/40 km tracking/engagement range of the Super Komar radar was simply too short, and this was the reason why no more follow-up orders were placed.;Italian FIAR Grifo-S7 radar: Unlike the Russian Super Komar, the Italian radar lacks the capability of multi-target tracking and engagement via semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles. However, it does have multi-target tracking capability (up to 8) and single-target engagement capability via semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles and when using active radar homing air-to-air missiles, two targets can be simultaneously engaged. The radar weighs 110 kg and a slotted planar array antenna. This Italian radar has a higher MTBF than the Russian radar, up to more than 220 hours. Furthermore, the ISO-9002-certified radar and electronics manufacturing facility at Kamra of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex already had vast experience in license assembly / production of earlier Italian FIAR Grifo series radars for the F-7MP/P/PG, and the Italian radar would have an advantage over its competitors should assembly / production licenses be granted like it had been done earlier. This Italian radar emerged as the winner in the competition against the British Blue Hawk and the French RC-400 radars, and it was reported that at least several units would equip the very first JF-17s in Pakistani service.;British GEC-Marconi Blue Hawk radar: This radar is developed from GEC-Marconi's Blue Vixen radar on board the BAE Sea Harrier, with an MTBF of over 200 hours. The radar lacks the compatibility with semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles, and this was one of the reason it was rejected by Pakistan, but this capability can be incorporated up on customer's request. The radar weighs 104 kg and incorporates a slotted planar array. This British radar remains a potential candidate on export versions of the JF-17, should potential customers require a cheaper alternative to the Italian Grifo-S7 radar.;French Thomson-CSF RC-400 radar: This radar is developed from Thomson-CSF's RDY radar on board the Dassault Mirage 2000, with reduced peak power and maximum range due to decreased size and weight. Like the British GEC-Marconi Blue Hawk radar, this French radar was also rejected by Pakistan for lacking the compatibility with semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles, but Thomson-CSF had claimed that such capability could be readily incorporated upon customer's request. Another reason for Pakistani rejection of the radar was that, instead of being built to the MIL-STD-1553 standard, the French radar was built to the French DIGIBUS one instead, so extra work must be done for compatibility with MIL-STD-1553, thus increasing the cost. However, for potential customers who had been accustomed with French equipment, this French radar is a logical choice, because although the initial cost for installation is higher, the overall operational cost would be lower when the radar is compatible with all other French equipment in the inventory. For this reason, the RC-400 also remains a potential candidate for export versions of the JF-17 for possible future customers equipped with French systems.


KLJ-7 Airborne Radar
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex
Technical Specifications
The KLJ-7 is an X-band airborne fire-control radar (FCR) uses a mechanically-steered slotted array antenna. The KLJ-7 has multiple modes, both beyond-visual-range (BVR) and close-in air-to-air modes, ground surveillance modes and a robust anti-jamming capability. The radar can reportedly manage up to 40 targets, monitor up to 10 of them in track-while-scan (TWS) mode and simultaneously fire on two BVR targets.
* Frequency : X-band
* A mechanically-steered slotted array antenna
* 14 Operational Modes
* Range more than 100 km
* Total targets tracked: 10 in TWS (Track-While-Scan) mode
* Reliability:
o MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure): 220 hours
o MTTR (Mean Time To Recovery): 0.5 hours
* Weight less than 120 kg
* Composition
o Antenna Unit
o Receiver Unit
o Transmitter Unit
o Processor Unit
o Power Supply Unit
o Auxiliary Transmitter Unit






Head-up display (HUD)

When Chinese Su-30MKK and Indian Su-30MKI were deployed in the humid subtropical and tropical zones, both had experienced significant fogging problems for the Russian SILS-30 HUDs, which was originally designed for arid environment in arctic/subarctic zones, thus a great deal of effort was spent to solve this issue so that the holographic HUD of Chinese origin on JF-17 could be deployed in any environments like its western counterparts. Alternatively, western HUDs can be incorporated directly into the aircraft with little effort due to the modular design and the adoptation of MIL-STD-1553B. The Chinese designed HUD for J-10 has inherited Russian/Soviet tradition of doubling as a radarscope, enabling the pilot to keep his eyes focused at infinity while working with his radar at the same time, a feature originally reverse engineered from MiG-23s obtained from Egypt.Fact|date=August 2008 The Chinese further expanded this function to include the projection of monochrome images from electrical optical pods JF-17 carried, though the colored images from these electrical optical pods would still have to be displayed on the head down displays.

However, many domestic Chinese sources have claimed that based on the feedback of the Chinese, Pakistani and other foreign pilots invited to evaluate the system, the result of such attempt to combine the best of Russian/Soviet and western practices is mixed at the best. While pilots accustomed to Soviet fighters including MiG-23 and MiG-29 welcomed the move, many others were rather not impressed at all, feeling that it was nothing other than merely pasting a transparent map on the HUD, because there was no three-dimensional presentation that would accurately cue a pilot's eyes to look for a target as it appears in a particular direction/angle, so the overall true effectiveness was still rather questionable. Such claimed are supported by the official acknowledgement of the manufacturer when Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation publicly announced at 6th Zhuhai Airshow held at the end of 2006 that this function did not come as a standard feature. Furthermore, the unit training device (UTD) presented at the same airshow also lacked this feature. As of early 2008, this function of HUD doubling as a radarscope is marketed by the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation as an extra feature if the customer is willing to pay extra, rather than as a standard feature that comes with the aircraft. However, incorporating this feature might be helpful to attract customers who operates Soviet fighter with the same feature, such as MiG-23 and MiG-29.

Electro-optical systems

JF-17 is full compatible with the Chinese indigenously developed electro-optical (optronics) system originally developed for J-10 by Sichuan Changhong Electric Appliance Corporation. ( [博客营é"â‚¬,企业博客营é"â‚¬,微博营é"â‚¬,社会化营é"â‚¬,社会化åª'ä½"营é"â‚¬,社会化ç"ÂµÃ¥*å"¢" Ã¥Å Â¡Ã¨ÂÂ¥Ã©"â‚¬Ã¥Â¹Â³Ã¥ÂÂ°:企博ç½' 四川长虹电器股份有限公司] ) The domestic Chinese optronics system is more advanced than the Russian Izdeliye series which lacked the infrared imaging (ImIR) capability. The Chinese system is named as Type Hongguang-I Electro-optical radar (虹光-Ⅰ型光电雷达), with Hongguang meaning Rainbow Light, and it is a third generation optronics with ImIR capability and utilizes HgCdTe focal array, and received its certification on March 3, 2005 and subsequently entered service. A year later, the system was revealed to Chinese pubilc at the Conference on (Making) Sichuan Province a Strong Industrial Province ( [?????_?_??_ 四川工业强省工作会] ). During the conference that lasted from March 26 to March 31, 2006, many cadres attending the conference including the Sichuan provincial (communist) party secretary Zhang Xuezhong (张学忠) were shown and operated an actual system demonstrated at the conference. Type Hongguang-I Electro-optical radar is also designed to be compatible with H-6, JH-7, J-8, J-11 and other large aircraft. Based on the limited information released, Hongguang-I optronics has a maximum range up to 75 km, longer than the Izdeliye OLS-27 (36Sh) optronics with 50 km on Su-27, but shorter than the Izdeliye OLS-30 (52Sh) optronics on Su-30.

In comparison to Russian Izdeliye family of optronics such as OLS-27 (36Sh) on Su-27 and OLS-30 (52Sh) on Su-30 that weigh over 200 kg, the Chinese system is much more lighter and compact, but still not enough to be fitted into the nose of the aircraft when the current available radars are installed. As a result, only the podded version can be carried by earlier production models of JF-17. Many domestic Chinese sources have claimed that this is the reason why the radar selection of JF-17 has not yet been finalized, due to the need for a more compact and lighter one while maintaining the same capability at the same time in order to install the domestic optronics system internally like similar systems on F-14, MiG-29 and Su-27.

 

[farhan_9909]

Helmet Mounted Sight (HMS)

Though the exact type of helmet mounted sights for the JF-17 has yet to be determined, it is known that the HMS will be standard. The JF-17 is compatible with a wide range of HMSes, and its HMS will be at least equal or better than the HMS offered for the Chengdu J-7E/F-7PG (J-7), which first appeared in 2002 at air shows and various defense / electronics exhibitions, such as CIDEX held in China. According to staffmembers from the developing firms and their advertisements at these exhibitions, the HMS offered for the J-7 is already better than the latest Russian HMS available on the export market, in that the Chinese HMS is specifically designed to improve the performance of the Russian system, and it outperforms its Russian counterparts including the ASP-AVD-21, Shchel series and Sura series in various fields:Fact|date=April 2008

*In comparison to the original standard Russian ASP-PVD-21 HMS on board the MiG-29 Fulcrum and the Flanker family, the field of view of the Chinese HMS for the J-7 is +/-90°, which is far greater than the mere +/-8° of the Russian ASP-PVD-21 HMS.
*In comparison to the latest Russian HMS available with +/-60° of field of view, the Chinese HMS for the J-7 still enjoys much greater field of view at +/-90°.
*The elevation of the latest Russian HMS designed to replace the original ASP-PVD-21 HMS on board the MiG-29 and the Flanker family is only +/-40°, while in contrast, the Chinese HMS for the J-7 is already +/-45°.
*The Chinese HMS for the J-7 already had a higher reliability than the Russian HMS.
*The Chinese HMS for the J-7 is easier and much cheaper to manufacture than its Russian counterparts.

Although the Chinese HMS for the J-7 has already enjoyed numerous advantages over the latest Russian HMS developed later, it still might not be the final type of HMS selected for the JF-17, because even as the Chinese HMS for the J-7 was first revealed in 2002, the Chinese manufacturers such as the 613th Institute had already started the development of newer HMS designed to replace the HMS for the J-7. Three major Chinese manufacturers, XBOE, the 613th Institute, and Luoyang Optoelectro Technology Development Center have already developed a variety of HMS systems with improvements including the adaptation of common attachments and power sources so that all night vision goggles and HMS are interchangeable, without the need to replace the entire system. The weight would be further reduced from the 200-gram weight of the Chinese HMS for the J-7, while the performance is further increased (mainly in the increase of elevation angles). While claims by various sources that the more advanced Chinese HMS on board the Chengdu J-10 developed from the HMS on board the J-7 would be selected for the JF-17 cannot be confirmed, the aircraft is certainly compatible with the more advanced Chinese HMS on board the J-10.Fact|date=April 2008




Electronic warfare

It has all the standard electronic warfare systems, such as radar warning receiver, missile approach warning system, etc.

*The computer can store more than 500 existing radar signals for identification, which is around 5 times of that F-7MP/P, and actually already stores more than 250 known radar signal patterns.
*360-degree field of view for the missile approach warning system with both infrared & ultraviolet spectrum detection.
**Very sensitive to the "afterburn" of missiles.
**The detection range is 60+ km.
**One detection sensor is in the tail and two at the front.
**Moreover, it can provide a certain capacity of tracking and positioning of approaching missiles.
*BM/KG300G Self protection jamming pod.
*KZ900 Electronic reconnaissance pod.
*Blue Sky navigation pod: Low altitude navigational and attack pod
*FILAT Forward-looking Infrared Laser Attack Targeting pod
*Other targeting pods

The MAWS(Missile Approach Warning System) scans in the IR, UV and visual spectrum, being able to detect incoming missiles from 20 km away.

1、UHF/VHF Communication antenna
2、Shortwave antenna
3、The omnidirectional synthesis radar warning locates /Self-defense electronic countermeasure

1、Digital electrostatic type atmosphere data pickoff
2、Incidence vane
3、AIFF Advanced friend-or-foe identification antenna

Communication

The JF-17 has two communication radios; one of them has the capacity for data link to exchange data from either a ground control center or an AWACS/AEW.

The modular design of solid state avionics has enabled the data link for the air-to-ground precision guided munitions to be carried internally, thus eliminating the need to carry external data link pods that are common for current Russian and Vietnam War era American systems, but this only applies to the radar or GPS guided air-to-surface missiles, because for television, infrared, or laser guided munitions, the aircraft lacks built-in electro-optics targeting and weapon control systems, so an external electro-optic targeting pod must be carried such as the Chinese built Blue Sky.




Engine

The current engine in the JF-17, the Russian RD-93, is now completely smoke-free. Truly impressive is that considering all its misgivings, the acceleration and quick response it can achieve is well within expectations. According to most test pilots, the engine's response is virtually instantaneous. Here is a comparison between the RD-93 and the Chinese WS-13:

:"Source: [Grande Strategy RD-93 / WS-13] "



Engine maintenance

Instead of being required to be sent back to the main overhaul factories in the rear for engine replacements, the aircraft engine can be readily replaced at the forward airbases in field conditions within two hours (one hour forty-five minutes has been achieved), providing the necessary maintenance equipment is all in place.




The Russian RD-93, despite "engineered" controversy by the Indian media, is slated to power at least the initial batches of the JF-17. The RD-93 is to be equiped with advanced crystal blade technology and a Digital Electronic Engine Control (DEEC). Other than improving the engine performance, the DEEC results in carefree handling under a wide range of conditions and at virtually all relevant altitudes.

The JF-17 has been designed from day one for ease of operations and maintainability. One such feature is that of a single point pressure refueling sys*tem. This significantly reduces the turn around time, meaning more sorties can be generated, while maintenance intensive Indian aircraft remain grounded. This is furthered by the modular mainte*nance design of the aircraft. The level of the serviceability and ease of general maintenance is further illustrated by how panels and components are installed at man's height and a full computer-controlled fault diagnosis and analysis system can be relied upon.



Fuel system

*Total internal fuel: 5,130 lb [http://www.pac.org.pk/amfsite-final/jf17specifications.html JF-17 Specifications] ]
*Single point pressure refueling system
*External Fuel:
**One (1) centerline droptank, 800 liters
**Two (2) under wing droptanks, 800/1,100 liters



Ground maintenance equipment

In comparison to Russian ground maintenance equipment for the Flanker family such as the Sukhoi Su-30, the Chinese claim that its indigenously-developed ground maintenance equipment for the JF-17 offers significant advantages to the current Russian one on the market, and the PLAAF has already begun to replace Russian ground maintenance equipment for the Flanker family for the following reasons:

*Like its Western counterparts, the Chinese ground maintenance equipment is not limited to serve a single type of aircraft; instead, it is designed to service a wide range of aircraft, including both civilian and military. In comparison, most Russian ground maintenance equipment for the Flanker family are purposely built and can only serve the aircraft in that family.
*The Chinese ground maintenance equipment utilizes solid state electronics, and has better reliability.
*Chinese equipment is based on the commercial off-the-shelf products that greatly reduce the logistic problems due to its commonality with similar commercial equipment available, while meeting the military standards in same time.
*Due to the adaptation of the commercial off-the-shelf products, Chinese equipment is cheaper to purchase, and, more importantly, cheaper to operate than the specially designed Russian ones, which have unit prices from at least $0.5 million to more than $1.0 million United States dollars.
*Chinese equipment adopts the multi-tasks workstation principle of similar American systems, and thus much fewer equipment is needed like the American ones. In comparison, most Russian ground maintenance equipment offered for export for the Flanker family is single-tasked, thus forcing the buyers to spend more money on purchasing every type in order to meet the complete maintenance requirements.
*Due to its similar design that follows Western systems, Chinese equipment is compact and can be deployed by air, like its Western counterparts. In contrast, Russian equipment for Flanker family is bulky and can only be transported on land, since it cannot fit inside cargo airplanes.
*Chinese equipment is versatile like similar Western systems, in that it can either be truck-mounted to increase mobility, or trailer-mounted to reduce cost. In contrast, the current Russian ground maintenance equipment on the market for the Flanker family only comes in truck-mounted form (as of 2006).
*Instead of being built by a single production complex associated with the aircraft manufacturer like the ground maintenance equipment of the [Flanker family, the complete set of the Chinese ground maintenance equipment is developed by different manufacturers of similar equipment used for commercial airplanes, so that buyers would have wider choice of suppliers, and would not have to pay higher prices, because they would not to be locked into the deal forced upon them by the aircraft manufacturer. The purchasers of Chinese equipment therefore are open to purchase Western components should they choose to, when there are better deals to be found.
*More importantly, since most of the Chinese equipment is for civilian use, there is far less likelihood of being embargoed like the Russian equipment for the Flanker family, which is purely for military use.
*The civilian usage of the multi-tasked Chinese equipment also means that the equipment can be better utilized for civilian aircraft, and thus reducing the cost of operation like similar Western systems. In contrast, not only is the Russian counterpart limited to military aircraft, it is also only limited to a single family of military aircraft, because many of the single-tasked Russian ground maintenance equipment purposely built for Flanker family can only be used for Flankers.
*Like similar Western systems of modular design, the Chinese ground maintenance equipment also has the option of modular design, so that when newer subsystems become available, they can be readily incorporated into the system by replacing the older ones on the racks.

 

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