LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[patriots]

What is the max speed of Mark 1A and its 'g' limit? There was a recent newspaper article stating that its max speed is 1.6 Mach while that Mark 2 will be 1.8 Mach. But to my understanding, it was mentioned in this forum that the max speed has been raised to Mach 1.8 in Mark 1 FOC versions itself. So, can anyone give some insight into this?

G limit 8.5 g
Max speed 1.6

 

[patriots]

HAL – Hindustan Aeronautics Limited

www.hal-india.co.in

 

[Satish Sharma]

G limit 8.5 g
Max speed 1.6

I think it is mach 1.8.
Hal sites are barely updated..

 

[Satish Sharma]

A Pakistani perspective on mk1A

 

[patriots]

I think it is mach 1.8.
Hal sites are barely updated..

It's 1.6 .
And hal site is recently updated.

 

[The Maverick]

Guys question

One on one in a bvr fight against either F16 of Pakistan or j10c of Paf and Plaaf

Who wins

I believe the lowest RCS is Indian Tejas
But thrust to weight range and payload goes to the f16 and j10

Not sure on Ew suites or weapons load out

 

[Abhijat]

Guys question

One on one in a bvr fight against either F16 of Pakistan or j10c of Paf and Plaaf

Who wins

I believe the lowest RCS is Indian Tejas
But thrust to weight range and payload goes to the f16 and j10

Not sure on Ew suites or weapons load out

Only if you would kindly provide me with both the planes and have me trained on them for sufficient long time, can I provide you with a rough answer.

Meaning, these fighter planes are complex system and at the end of the day it all boils to the pilots skill, tactics and their persistence against an enemy, that may determine the outcome you desired.

 

[NutCracker]

Guys question

One on one in a bvr fight against either F16 of Pakistan or j10c of Paf and Plaaf

Who wins

I believe the lowest RCS is Indian Tejas
But thrust to weight range and payload goes to the f16 and j10

Not sure on Ew suites or weapons load out

Air combats are not fought 1 vs 1 . Lots of complicate scenarios are involved.

For most simplistic scenario-
If Jammers of all planes worked well then J10c has IRST which gives it upper hand .

 

[mist_consecutive]

Guys question

One on one in a bvr fight against either F16 of Pakistan or j10c of Paf and Plaaf

Who wins

I believe the lowest RCS is Indian Tejas
But thrust to weight range and payload goes to the f16 and j10

Not sure on Ew suites or weapons load out

First define these factors -

• Is AWACS support present ? Can you slave the BVRs to AWACS datalink ?
• Missiles used by Tejas & J10C, assuming F-16s will be using AIM-120C5. What is the NEZ for those missiles ?
• What SPJs being used by both sides.
• Is it 1 vs. 1 or a group fight ?
• What's the terrain ? (Mountainous vs. plain).

A lot of factors will define who will win. J10C is a pandora box with questionable performance parameters. Nothing the Chinese say is true, they lie on everything. It is yet to be known how their radars perform against modern jamming & how effective their missiles are.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Air combats are not fought 1 vs 1 . Lots of complicate scenarios are involved.

For most simplistic scenario-
If Jammers of all planes worked well then J10c has IRST which gives it upper hand .

IRST in BVR scenarios (> 50km) won't give a lock-on. Also I don't think J10C carries any BVR IR missile which can get lock-on BVR ranges.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Guys question

One on one in a bvr fight against either F16 of Pakistan or j10c of Paf and Plaaf

Who wins

I believe the lowest RCS is Indian Tejas
But thrust to weight range and payload goes to the f16 and j10

Not sure on Ew suites or weapons load out

Tejas with 2 supersonic ext. Fuel tanks
Astra mk2 & mk3 SFDR.
It has gotten jammers so there is no doubt f16s pulse Doppler radar will just offers his a s s to Tejas.
Tejas has GaN based ASPJ jammers.
The upcoming radar of Tejas is going to be Gan based Uttam. Which has 992trms.
912 working at x band frequency for fire control
And rest of trms working at L band frequency for long range search same frequency at which early warning radars operate. But can't guide weapons..
So even if supposedly they jam aesa radar which is highly unlikely they won't affect the situational awareness of Tejas. Many EW are not capable of detecting low band frequency emissions. Only aircraft which can detect is f35 b4 which has fking 20 RWRs. aircrafts like f16,su30 hardly have 4-5 RWRs...
Secondly the RCS of Tejas is very low.
It's launchers will be upgraded. It will be getting those new universal launchers of astra which have reduced signature too...
The GaN based uttam will have very long range...

The only problem hunts me is Tejas can carry only 2-3 bvrs in a full combat configuration. Shown in below picture. They have said astra mk3 will be carried on central pylon.. I think the wing need to be shortened of astra to accomodate it on central pylon.. or a modified dual rack pylon.
We have already tested short wing vertical launched vlsrsam astra's.. this can be put there be it single or 2 with dual pylon.

Anyways 1 jammer on wing tip 2x drop tanks
1x 2asraam with dual rack pylon.
We have 2 pylons for bvr and centre line pylon which could host 3rd drop tank or be empty..
If there we can accomodate a single BVR missile or even we successfully put a dual rack pylon then Tejas will fk J10 too.

J10 does not have any jammers right now..
In this configuration Tejas will dominate j10s & f16s.
Let alone those jf17 with shitty air cooled radars.
However Tejas is yet to get GaN based uttam and aerodynamic supersonic ext Fuel tanks. Like rafale have, for munuevrability.
J10 has a fuel capacity of 3.7 to s with newer Variant having upto 4.2 tons as it must be carrying 2 drop tanks of around 1000kg.

 

[Satish Sharma]

GaN based AESA radars means very great performance. It will be very strong package imagine if GaAs based uttam could detect a empty clean tejas from 151km now how powerful this GaN uttam will be... And also the GaN based EW unbelievable.. it will be sensitive rwr.. and the aspj jammer too is based on GaN. It will have very great performance now.
given the ecosystem of GaN in india it was very likely even tejas mk1a would have had..
Tejas's uttam which has 992trms is capable of functioning at L band frequency which can detect stealth aircraft.
Now just want to see astra mk2 & mk3 on it.. and dual missile rack on centre line pylon..

 

[Bleh]

Guys question

One on one in a bvr fight against either F16 of Pakistan or j10c of Paf and Plaaf

Who wins

I believe the lowest RCS is Indian Tejas
But thrust to weight range and payload goes to the f16 and j10

Not sure on Ew suites or weapons load out

If you're at a 1v1 then there has been a drastic tactical & planning failure or we've been surprised thing have been going really bad.
The strength of Tejas is to switch off its own radar & use Su-30s' lock to launch BVRs from shorter range. Its EW & RWR is better so it is safer for Tejas to go closer to the enemy & keep them engaged into Su-30s are able to close in to enter WVR regime.

Atleast it seems to me that with Python & ASRAAM & upoming MICA, Tejas is being cut-out as a mid-range standoff dogfighter that'll do the, err... "skirmishing". At 30-60km range, nothing in the subcontinent matches Tejas.

 

[NutCracker]

Tejas with 2 supersonic ext. Fuel tanks
Astra mk2 & mk3 SFDR.
It has gotten jammers so there is no doubt f16s pulse Doppler radar will just offers his a s s to Tejas.
Tejas has GaN based ASPJ jammers.
The upcoming radar of Tejas is going to be Gan based Uttam. Which has 992trms.
912 working at x band frequency for fire control
And rest of trms working at L band frequency for long range search same frequency at which early warning radars operate. But can't guide weapons..
So even if supposedly they jam aesa radar which is highly unlikely they won't affect the situational awareness of Tejas. Many EW are not capable of detecting low band frequency emissions. Only aircraft which can detect is f35 b4 which has fking 20 RWRs. aircrafts like f16,su30 hardly have 4-5 RWRs...
Secondly the RCS of Tejas is very low.
It's launchers will be upgraded. It will be getting those new universal launchers of astra which have reduced signature too...
The GaN based uttam will have very long range...

The only problem hunts me is Tejas can carry only 2-3 bvrs in a full combat configuration. Shown in below picture. They have said astra mk3 will be carried on central pylon.. I think the wing need to be shortened of astra to accomodate it on central pylon.. or a modified dual rack pylon.
We have already tested short wing vertical launched vlsrsam astra's.. this can be put there be it single or 2 with dual pylon.
View attachment 246436
Anyways 1 jammer on wing tip 2x drop tanks
1x 2asraam with dual rack pylon.
We have 2 pylons for bvr and centre line pylon which could host 3rd drop tank or be empty..
If there we can accomodate a single BVR missile or even we successfully put a dual rack pylon then Tejas will fk J10 too.
View attachment 246435
J10 does not have any jammers right now..
In this configuration Tejas will dominate j10s & f16s.
Let alone those jf17 with shitty air cooled radars.
However Tejas is yet to get GaN based uttam and aerodynamic supersonic ext Fuel tanks. Like rafale have, for munuevrability.
J10 has a fuel capacity of 3.7 to s with newer Variant having upto 4.2 tons as it must be carrying 2 drop tanks of around 1000kg.

In dedicated CAP/ A2A combat mode Tejas should place ASPJ in the hardpoint built for targetting pod , it should vacate another wing pylon.

 

[Satish Sharma]

In dedicated CAP/ A2A combat mode Tejas should place ASPJ in the hardpoint built for targetting pod , it should vacate another wing pylon.

What will be the coverage area then.
In a scenario where you're cracking to evade missile will that be able to jam incoming missile where it will be getting mid course updates as well as after some time radar lock ?
No because aspj will have limited coverage area..
If both aircraft are facing each other's then it will work but what about other scenarios there are many.
Visualise with this images

 

[NutCracker]

What will be the coverage area then.
In a scenario where you're cracking to evade missile will that be able to jam incoming missile where it will be getting mid course updates as well as after some time radar lock ?
No because it will have limited coverage area..
If both aircraft are facing each other's then it will work but what about other scenarios there are many.
Visualise with this image

How do you think EM waves work ?
You think if aspj is on left wingtip pylon , it wont jam missiles coming from right ?

 

[Satish Sharma]

How do you think EM waves work ?
You think if aspj is on left wingtip pylon , it wont jam missiles coming from right ?

Dude you're all right but suppose like this you're below and missile is being fired from above you will aspj work there ? Whereas if it is on outermost wing Pylon it will have wider coverage area...
Imagine a missile is fired at you you're cracking to left and lowering the altitude to drag the missiles out to evade it. It that scenario will the ASPJ have line of sight to aircraft which fired and the incoming missile ? And suppose now you have lowered altitude completely to left a missile is just coming towards you the ASPJ is below you how will it even gave towards missile ??

 

[NutCracker]

Dude you're all right but suppose like this you're below and missile is being fired from above you will aspj work there ? Whereas if it is on outermost wing Pylon it will have wider coverage area...
Imagine a missile is fired at you you're cracking to left and lowering the altitude to drag the missiles out to evade it. It that scenario will the ASPJ have line of sight to aircraft which fired and the incoming missile ? And suppose now you have lowered altitude completely to left a missile is just coming towards you the ASPJ is below you how will it even gave towards missile ??

You are picking up very specific scenario.

Same limitations can be there when it's on wingtip pylon and whole airframe+ fuel tanks are hindering the operation of aspj against missile coming from other side.

 

[Satish Sharma]

You are picking up very specific scenario.

Same limitations can be there when it's on wingtip pylon and whole airframe+ fuel tanks are hindering the operation of aspj against missile coming from other side.

Yes but outermost pylon offers higher are of coverage compared to fuselage (ldp) pylon..not just that potentially the ext. Fuel tanks also block coverage to some extent. Its transmitters can do electronically phase shifting too..
Most of the aircraft like eurofighter typhoon, gripen have it on outermost pylon only..
Arexis sensor suit of ef & rafaels ASPJ

Gripen