LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[mist_consecutive]

Treat as a rumour till a solid source can be found

Meteor on Mk1 with small Uttam Mk1 radar will be under-utilizing its range. Heck, even Astra Mk2 might to too much for Uttam Mk1 to guide at terminal ranges.

Real beast will be Su-30MKI with upscaled Uttam (mk2 ?) which will be Su-35 with R-37s on Steroids.

 

[NutCracker]

Meteor on Mk1 with small Uttam Mk1 radar will be under-utilizing its range. Heck, even Astra Mk2 might to too much for Uttam Mk1 to guide at terminal ranges.

Real beast will be Su-30MKI with upscaled Uttam (mk2 ?) which will be Su-35 with R-37s on Steroids.

Induction of GaN based Uttam is8 years away..
I don't know why did we change plans and shifted from GaAs to GaN for Su300MKI.

Is our enemy going to wait for 1 decade ki han bhai upgrade kar lo, Hum tab tak ruke huye hain.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Induction of GaN based Uttam is8 years away..
I don't know why did we change plans and shifted from GaAs to GaN for Su300MKI.

Is our enemy going to wait for 1 decade ki han bhai upgrade kar lo.

Well, our enemies won't wait for us to acquire Tejas Mk1A/Mk2 as well but here we are, canceling MRCA and putting all our eggs into the HAL/ADAs basket.

There is some decision that might give us short-term pain but long-term benefits. Long-term benefits include having perhaps one of the most powerful airborne radars ever created, and short-term pains include losing war with Pakistan/China and perhaps a significant chunk of territory.

 

[NutCracker]

Well, our enemies won't wait for us to acquire Tejas Mk1A/Mk2 as well but here we are, canceling MRCA and putting all our eggs into the HAL/ADAs basket.

There is some decision that might give us short-term pain but long-term benefits. Long-term benefits include having perhaps one of the most powerful airborne radars ever created, and short-term pains include losing war with Pakistan/China and perhaps a significant chunk of territory.

We took good decision to have half of MK1a with ELM2052 ,by the time Uttam completes it's trials and testing. Same should've been done with Su30s, to have scaled GaAs Uttam on half of them.


Also how far can Uttam Mk1 guide a missile ? Is it correlated with its detection range ?

 

[mist_consecutive]

We took good decision to have half of MK1a with ELM2052 ,by the time Uttam completes it's trials and testing. Same should've been done with Su30s, to have scaled GaAs Uttam on half of them.

Actually, I am not unhappy with the decision of delaying the Su-30MKI radar upgrade in favor of a better radar. The existing PESA Bars radar is good enough for most 4th-gen fighters. In fact I am yet to hear anybody complaining about Bars radar, it was considered unmatched in the 2000s.
Given our adversary, Pakistan (F-16s/JF-17s) and China (J-11s) majorly only sport shitty pulse-doppler radar, we have the buffer time to wait and upgrade to a better one.

Also how far can Uttam Mk1 guide a missile ? Is it correlated with its detection range ?

Do we have an official range of Uttam Mk1 ? By the rule of thumb, in a jamming-free environment, the radar will be able to guide the missile 2/3 of its detection range for an F-16-size of fighter jet.

 

[NutCracker]

Actually, I am not unhappy with the decision of delaying the Su-30MKI radar upgrade in favor of a better radar. The existing PESA Bars radar is good enough for most 4th-gen fighters. In fact I am yet to hear anybody complaining about Bars radar, it was considered unmatched in the 2000s.
Given our adversary, Pakistan (F-16s/JF-17s) and China (J-11s) majorly only sport shitty pulse-doppler radar, we have the buffer time to wait and upgrade to a better one.



Do we have an official range of Uttam Mk1 ? By the rule of thumb, in a jamming-free environment, the radar will be able to guide the missile 2/3 of its detection range for an F-16-size of fighter jet.

Some old discussions here over a tweet say Uttam on hawker testbed tracked a tejas at 150km.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Some old discussions here over a tweet say Uttam on hawker testbed tracked a tejas at 150km.

Again, we if take its full range (150km), it is still inadequate to track Meteor whose range is in excess of 180km.

OR

Airforce is not an idiot. If they are integrating Meteor with Tejas, that means Uttam's range is in excess of Meteor's range, but I really doubt that.

 

[AnantS]

launch codes? What does that even mean?

You have answered your own question in bottom para. Launch code is abbreviation for the description you gave below. Code here does not mean authentication passcode.

All this requires source code data for the missile manufacturer to be able to integrate their missile with the radar and vice versa for the radar to be integrated with the missile. MBDA won't give source code data for integrating Meteor with a Russian radar or even an Israeli radar is what we were told earlier by Livefist and other sources. Situation may change with Uttam radar on the Tejas Mk1A and possible Uttam variant on the upgraded Super Su-30MKI.

 

[IndianHawk]

Again, we if take its full range (150km), it is still inadequate to track Meteor whose range is in excess of 180km.

OR

Airforce is not an idiot. If they are integrating Meteor with Tejas, that means Uttam's range is in excess of Meteor's range, but I really doubt that.

NEZ of meteor is approx 100-120 km.
IAF won't waste missile by firing beyond NEZ against fighter jets. So it's adequate for Tejas.

All these range figures are for slow moving targets like tanker , awacs .

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Meteor on Mk1 with small Uttam Mk1 radar will be under-utilizing its range. Heck, even Astra Mk2 might to too much for Uttam Mk1 to guide at terminal ranges.

Real beast will be Su-30MKI with upscaled Uttam (mk2 ?) which will be Su-35 with R-37s on Steroids.

The TRM count on the Uttam Mk1 radar that has been fitted to the Tejas Mk1A testbed is 912 TRM, which is by no means small.
Even the baseline Uttam with 768 TRM modules can detect a target with RCS of 2m^2 at a distance of 150km, even the N011M Bars lacks such capabilities.

 

[mist_consecutive]

The TRM count on the Uttam Mk1 radar that has been fitted to the Tejas Mk1A testbed is 912 TRM, which is by no means small.

Have we got any confirmation on this? Is Mk1A getting upscaled Uttam Mk1 ? What about power o/p from GE-F404 ? Is it enough to power the 912 TRM to its full potential ?

 

[NutCracker]

Have we got any confirmation on this? Is Mk1A getting upscaled Uttam Mk1 ? What about power o/p from GE-F404 ? Is it enough to power the 912 TRM to its full potential ?

Correct me if I'm wrong ,

in AESA we can control these TRM modules individually or maybe in sets( let's assume 4 sets of ~190 TRM each). For 760 TRM- old Uttam

It could scan upto 200km radius with 1/4th of arrey , repeat this 4 times with each set and then produce a consolidated picture of the whole raster.

Now if has 920 TRM, then 920/5 ~ 180. It can have 5 sets of arrey to provide complete raster , using same power source.
There can be some switching delay due to extra set but probably neglegible.

 

[johnj]

NEZ of meteor is approx 100-120 km.
IAF won't waste missile by firing beyond NEZ against fighter jets. So it's adequate for Tejas.

All these range figures are for slow moving targets like tanker , awacs .

NEZ of meteor is 60km & max range is 150km for export version.
Uttam, which is going inside mk1a is better than elm2052, means max rage in excess of 150km[200km] against 2m2 target. GaN comes with a range 200km against 1m2 target. mki radar can spot 5m2 at 170km.
Elm 2052 in jaguar having 80km range against 2m2.
If AESA/PESA radar in grippen/eft can take advantage of meteor, then why not AESA in lca ?
Targets like tanker , awacs fly inside protective zone & need missile range above 350/450 km or f22.

 

[Blademaster]

Well, our enemies won't wait for us to acquire Tejas Mk1A/Mk2 as well but here we are, canceling MRCA and putting all our eggs into the HAL/ADAs basket.

There is some decision that might give us short-term pain but long-term benefits. Long-term benefits include having perhaps one of the most powerful airborne radars ever created, and short-term pains include losing war with Pakistan/China and perhaps a significant chunk of territory.

I do not agree with the last part of your last statement. Pakistan won't achieve any air superiority with India and China would need to exploit her air power advantages with ground troops and the IA has checked that part. I do believe that India has some time left to correct the deficiencies with a homegrown solution.

 

[Vamsi]

Cope India

 

[Pazhassiraja]

Cope India
View attachment 201763

Can anyone please clarify why the Indian flag is inscribed vertically on the rudder of all IAF aircrafts similar to an Italian flag? Also why is it painted red instead of saffron?

 

[NutCracker]

Can anyone please clarify why the Indian flag is inscribed vertically on the rudder of all IAF aircrafts similar to an Italian flag? Also why is it painted red instead of saffron?

It's looking red due to high contrast, filter or editing

Also it being vertical is colonial reminiscence, let's wish it changes soon.

 

[Pazhassiraja]

It's looking red due to high contrast, filter or editing

Also it being vertical is colonial reminiscence, let's wish it changes soon.
View attachment 201773

Thank you

 

[Flying Dagger]

Again, we if take its full range (150km), it is still inadequate to track Meteor whose range is in excess of 180km.

OR

Airforce is not an idiot. If they are integrating Meteor with Tejas, that means Uttam's range is in excess of Meteor's range, but I really doubt that.

That 180+ range is in flatter trajectory meant for AWACS tankers etc.

 

[samsaptaka]

Treat as a rumour till a solid source can be found

Why the hell is astra not yet test fired from Tejas.
I mean indigineous aircraft should first be made to deploy indigenous missile.
No news on Astra integration on Tejas. What is happening.