LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[cannonfodder]

@vishnugupt I am really in support of your posts
We are literally suffering due to imports
But sir today suddenly Ani reported pm is serious about indigenous programs
I know it won't have any effect on MoD and gernails but still do u think there is any particular reason for a sudden tweet(any major step)

Vatsa kuch nahi hoga. Don't expect anything drastic.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

The principle Support, where PAF brought J17 almost zero subsystems. No FBW, No BVR/WVR missile, no EWS, I doubt even without Radar. Though UNAF also do the same but ONLY for import weapons.



So according to you, All air forces around the world is suffering from Malnutrition as none operate like IAF.



Was Tejas was not intended to achieve FOC ?? Or IAF was unaware about term FOC?? How can you compare anything with unfinished product ?
If we apply your logic even F-35 is inferior to mig-21 because it wasn't carrying internal cannon in 2010 or some of even today (Gun pod)
"Dadi ko nakli muchh laga Dene se vo dada nhi ban jata". Mig-21 is a second generation jet and do not have effective BVR capability. If you believe then call Hawk trainer also a bomber as they can carry bombs.



See, You Import fanboys often don't understand how UN armed forces place impossible GSQR and Never involve in project ab initio and take decades of trials. which effectively make upcoming product nonviable. Don't forget Rafale yet to be upgraded.


"The Desperation" of Import fanboys to excel their argument where it is impossible to even negotiate.
If Tejas is improving so did Mig-21 and so do others it doesn't mean it is inferior.

By the Way, How Mig-21's FBW is working??

No doubt Tejas is not sufficient but adequate for its role, performance and well fit into IAF's healthy combination.

Tejas is better than any single engine 4th Generation aircraft in the world
it’s the smallest and lightest aircraft in the world with 90% carbon composite frame and AESA radar and since DRDO owns the IP rights they can keep modifying it without any problem

 

[India Super Power]

Vatsa kuch nahi hoga. Don't expect anything drastic.

Saaaaaad
Why our nation always suffers

 

[cannonfodder]

Saaaaaad
Why our nation always suffers

6 years I have waited anxiously to see thing that started to happen now. this is not 20-20, its test cricket. Sambhal ke dhere hoga. otherwise you will get disappointment.

 

[vishnugupt]

@vishnugupt I am really in support of your posts
We are literally suffering due to imports
But sir today suddenly Ani reported pm is serious about indigenous programs
I know it won't have any effect on MoD and gernails but still do u think there is any particular reason for a sudden tweet(any major step)

Chinese incursion in Laddakh has cought our Armed forces of the gaurd plus poor show during surgical strike against Pakistan have changed opinion of every one.

Moreover, Our armed forces response to these tragedy was just apposite.... They just use these apportunity to buy more foreign Maal.

Almost all are convinced now that Armed forces hierarchy is not working in best interest of country as they are also opposing theaterization.

Geo politics is changing very fast and Policy makers have realised if India want to be a credible power among the world then we need to do military reforms asap unlike endless trials like Armed forces do.

 

[vidhwanshak]

poor show during surgical strikes

please elaborate @vishnugupt

 

[fire starter]

Chinese incursion in Laddakh has cought our Armed forces of the gaurd plus poor show during surgical strike against Pakistan have changed opinion of every one.

Moreover, Our armed forces response to these tragedy was just apposite.... They just use these apportunity to buy more foreign Maal.

Almost all are convinced now that Armed forces hierarchy is not working in best interest of country as they are also opposing theaterization.

Geo politics is changing very fast and Policy makers have realised if India want to be a credible power among the world then we need to do military reforms asap unlike endless trials like Armed forces do.

Since last three years Armed Forces have spent billions on emergency imports at the same time Indigenous weapons such as LCH, LUH, whap, ATAGS etc. Kept getting dragged.

Just because more financial powers has been to Armed Forces they have turned spoiled kids by asking for crap like ka 26 and sprut .The whole game is now full of commission.

Finally Prime Minister has to intervene at last you See How serious situation is.

 

[Vamsi]

Since last three years Armed Forces have spent billions on emergency imports at the same time Indigenous weapons such as LCH, LUH, whap, ATAGS etc. Kept getting dragged.

Just because more financial powers has been to Armed Forces they have turned spoiled kids by asking for crap like ka 26 and sprut .The whole game is now full of commission.

Finally Prime Minister has to intervene at last you See How serious situation is.

Even if the PM intervenes, our cunning babus and jernails will license manufacture the foreign toys and call them indigenous. We already saw how they made sure that negative import list have no value at all.

 

[mist_consecutive]

The principle Support, where PAF brought J17 almost zero subsystems. No FBW, No BVR/WVR missile, no EWS, I doubt even without Radar. Though UNAF also do the same but ONLY for import weapons.

And you think that is a good thing ?

Do you want our Air force which is facing a 2-front war threat any time to acquire toothless, underperforming platforms in large numbers ? Tejas as a platform was simply not ready to be inducted a year back.

So according to you, All air forces around the world is suffering from Malnutrition as none operate like IAF.

Ah, pray tell which modern air force in the world operate >50% of its fleet of light fighters ? The backbone is always medium or heavy fighters.

Was Tejas was not intended to achieve FOC ?? Or IAF was unaware about term FOC?? How can you compare anything with unfinished product ?

Yes, so did we not order Tejas FOC ? The small numbers are meant to be tested and problems rectified, like how late Grp. Captain Varun Singh saved the crashing Tejas because its FBW was faulty.

If we apply your logic even F-35 is inferior to mig-21 because it wasn't carrying internal cannon in 2010 or some of even today (Gun pod)
"Dadi ko nakli muchh laga Dene se vo dada nhi ban jata". Mig-21 is a second generation jet and do not have effective BVR capability. If you believe then call Hawk trainer also a bomber as they can carry bombs.

Strawman argument

F-35 was heavily criticized to be not ready, the airforce version (F-35A) has gun, and F-35A was only inducted in USAF in 2016. Blunders and shortcomings of F-35 is a different topic.

I am not defending Mig-21 here, or trying to say Mig-21 is better than Tejas (heck I just argued Tejas is better just a page back ). I am just saying Tejas was just not ready for frontline one or two years back that we ought to have order Tejas FOC in large numbers. Today as it stands (with Elta 2052, Derby BVR, and other issued rectified), it is.

See, You Import fanboys often don't understand how UN armed forces place impossible GSQR and Never involve in project ab initio and take decades of trials. which effectively make upcoming product nonviable. Don't forget Rafale yet to be upgraded.

You are no better than liberals who call everyone sanghi who does not agree with them. Your other claims are just a bad calumny.

Rafale is yet to be upgraded (to Indian standards) because we asked them to expedite the delivery because of Chinese threat.

"The Desperation" of Import fanboys to excel their argument where it is impossible to even negotiate.
If Tejas is improving so did Mig-21 and so do others it doesn't mean it is inferior.

? You think I am getting some big money by selling imported jets at DFI ? I just think practical, from a defence point of view. I see fighter jets as a weapon platform which will protect us, you see it as a vanity program that must be accepted at all cost, no matter how deficient it may be so that our technological achievement can be bragged.

 

[MonaLazy]

Chinese incursion in Laddakh has cought our Armed forces of the gaurd plus poor show during surgical strike against Pakistan have changed opinion of every one.

At some level, the jingo in me thinks China is the best thing to have been to India. They know we cannot take China on with imported stuff- that's a costly affair. Will have to push our own equipment & industry.

 

[mist_consecutive]

Tejas is better than any single engine 4th Generation aircraft in the world
it’s the smallest and lightest aircraft in the world with 90% carbon composite frame and AESA radar and since DRDO owns the IP rights they can keep modifying it without any problem

Better than any single-engine 4th gen jet? You sure?

See, this blind fanboyism is the reason logical argument is pointless here.

please elaborate @vishnugupt

If you haven't realized it already, he is a communist. He hates Armed Forces.

 

[vishnugupt]

please elaborate @vishnugupt

Bhai aur galiya nhi khana mujhe..... Bahut lamba discussion ho chuka hai ispar... Sorry

 

[MonaLazy]

how late Grp. Captain Varun Singh saved the crashing Tejas because its FBW was faulty.

Not taking anything away from the good officer but it is more than likely that IAF botched up the "rectification" at AFS Hindan. & here's why-

1. Tejas is a new platform for IAF- both for flying and maintaining.

2. It was being serviced at Hindan- far away from its home base of Bangalore/Sulur.

3. Was there a fleet wide grounding announced after this incident? If there was a problem in one Tejas' FCS- it should affect all Tejas, no?

4. Was a report on the "accurate analysis of fault" ever made public and what measures were subsequently taken to address that problem- applied fleet wide?

The absence of 3 & 4 so far, makes me believe it was an isolated problem- only affecting the plane in question. Tejas being a new platform will take time for the IAF maintenance crew to get used to- esp away from the support system.

 

[vishnugupt]

And you think that is a good thing ?

Do you want our Air force which is facing a 2-front war threat any time to acquire toothless, underperforming platforms in large numbers ? Tejas as a platform was simply not ready to be inducted a year back.

No-one has asked to IAF for this. Point was about "Support". It is true IAF wake up only after MRCA-1 dream fell flat around 2014.

Ah, pray tell which modern air force in the world operate >50% of its fleet of light fighters ? The backbone is always medium or heavy fighters

All airforce operate mostly 2 type of multirole aircrafts (light +Heavy, F-16 and F15, Mig29 and Su-30, Mirage and Rafale or Eurofighter) some are even only one type multirole jets.
Only UNAF has to invent all kind of weight catagory.

Yes, so did we not order Tejas FOC ? The small numbers are meant to be tested and problems rectified, like how late Grp. Captain Varun Singh saved the crashing Tejas because its FBW was faulty.

You mean to say, Tejas first got FOC and now they testing? I think otherway around is true...
Please don't lie about faulty FBW system. I can remember the news where IAF made some change which cause FBW failure. Otherwise IAF would have grounded whole Tejas fleet till rectification.
Due to poor vision and lack of involvement in project were the reason IAF could not have ordered more FOC Tejas.

BVR firing completed in 2018, not 2 years back as you claiming. All these delay were attributed to IAF for changing requirements in midway.

You can go any extent but every one knows IAF's duel policy when it's come to local product.

If you haven't realized it already, he is a communist. He hates Armed Forces.

That's laughable, My only wish is to see Indian armed forces as a formidable forces unlike who run to emergency procurements every time whenever emergency arise on border.

 

[fire starter]

Dalals will still try to palm off screwdriver-giri (joint ventures) as "Atmanirbharta". Hope the PM & RM put their foot down

Though the COI has concluded that Gen Rawat's heli-crash was a pilot-error (Controlled Descent into Terrain), I just can't help shake the suspicion - is it a coincidence that he should perish a few weeks after such an important decision was made, which would have pissed off import lobbies in India & arms majors worldwide? Gen Rawat, being the man with the know-how of the insider workings/rot in MoD, Services, media etc, would have likely been a key influencer in this decision - perhaps even the prime mover.

God-forbid, if there is a shooting war with the Chinese and we suffer from some losses, all the rotten scoundrels in our system will come out of the woodwork and claim that Modi stunted our defence preparedness by "not giving our armed forces the best". In fact, many will be praying & even taking steps (along with foreign agencies) to make such a situation come to pass

 

[vidhwanshak]

Bhai aur galiya nhi khana mujhe..... Bahut lamba discussion ho chuka hai ispar... Sorry

are koi baat nahi. take your time. uske baad bata dena kaise surgical strikes ek "poor show" tha and use kaise "hit show" bana sakte hai. sab log jaana chahenge aapke vichaar

 

[Covfefe]

At some level, the jingo in me thinks China is the best thing to have been to India. They know we cannot take China on with imported stuff- that's a costly affair. Will have to push our own equipment & industry.

The pessimist in me is still disappointed that the chain of events brought no change in attitude of imports and lack of support to domestic ecosystem. Be it salivating for Athos or Ka226, they have made sure that they won't let the desi systems pass. While cutting edge tech like Rafale's import is understandable, importing goddamn utility helicopters when there are desi alternatives is purely criminal. (They also give hilarious reasons for platform like it has a modular design and can have air ambulance add on. Dude the money you save by rejecting import is more than enough to have a dedicated hepter for that role, you don't even need to change)
And most likely they're waiting for the next big buildup near the border to work up the ministry into clearing the import orders for these small number of toys(using which they won't be able to counter Chongs anyway)

 

[MonaLazy]

The pessimist in me is still disappointed that the chain of events brought no change in attitude of imports and lack of support to domestic ecosystem. Be it salivating for Athos or Ka226, they have made sure that they won't let the desi systems pass. While cutting edge tech like Rafale's import is understandable, importing goddamn utility helicopters when there are desi alternatives is purely criminal. (They also give hilarious reasons for platform like it has a modular design and can have air ambulance add on. Dude the money you save by rejecting import is more than enough to have a dedicated hepter for that role, you don't even need to change)
And most likely they're waiting for the next big buildup near the border to work up the ministry into clearing the import orders for these small number of toys(using which they won't be able to counter Chongs anyway)

Not to worry. The pace at which China is moving. In a decade or two US, France, Israel & Russia the traditional military suppliers will have nothing to offer us other than a shoulder to cry on.

 

[The Shrike]

IMO although Babaji and the the different RMs till now have talked big on "Atmanirbhata" in defence, they have no idea how to actually implement it. Remember that there first big reform was increase in FDI in the defence sector like that was going to result in a sunami of investment (which didn't happen). Only Parrikar was able to go into the weeds but he too was learning and didn't stay too long. Funding was always a problem, they killed Make-1 scheme where the government would pay for R&D of new weapon systems, now industry will have to pay for R&D and underwrite all the risk. On top of that we have been having the political leadership pushing for geopolitical reasons weapons deals which were not necessarily needed by the forces. Kadi ninda's import blacklist became a Atmanirbhata whitelist and then finally a joke list. Every year there is some new scheme or policy change but we see only small incremental improvements.

 

[Physx32]

@vishnugupt I am really in support of your posts
We are literally suffering due to imports
But sir today suddenly Ani reported pm is serious about indigenous programs
I know it won't have any effect on MoD and gernails but still do u think there is any particular reason for a sudden tweet(any major step)

Politicians and babus actually running MoD are not as concerned as we are. So, I wouldn't take anything which a politician says at face value. Everything they (pretend to) do are to win elections and stay in power, not save the country. Don't believe in their promises, you'll be disappointed.

IMO although Babaji and the the different RMs till now have talked big on "Atmanirbhata" in defence, they have no idea how to actually implement it. Remember that there first big reform was increase in FDI in the defence sector like that was going to result in a sunami of investment (which didn't happen). Only Parrikar was able to go into the weeds but he too was learning and didn't stay too long. Funding was always a problem, they killed Make-1 scheme where the government would pay for R&D of new weapon systems, now industry will have to pay for R&D and underwrite all the risk. On top of that we have been having the political leadership pushing for geopolitical reasons weapons deals which were not necessarily needed by the forces. Kadi ninda's import blacklist became a Atmanirbhata whitelist and then finally a joke list. Every year there is some new scheme or policy change but we see only small incremental improvements.

These are yearly political gimmicks done to win elections. As general elections come near, we'll hear more of these. Before 2019, they peddled "Make in India", now it's "Atmanirbhar Bharat".