LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

ersakthivel

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Those western radars are quite big with 1000snds of X band emitters, the one in gripen has over a 1000snd emitters using GaN technology which benefits better gain and low noise, the RBE2 AESA radar is a circular radar with around 1000snd trms, the captor E is very bigbwith 1500trm approx, the apg81 on f35 has a large antenna with approx 1400trm, and so They boost a range, what jf17 will get is a small aperture aesa not as big as the western sized.
Does that mean rafale is an inferior plane because of smaller AESA?

get real.

Those fancy long range hits by western airforces with fancier BVRs are only against rag tag airforces,
which neither have AWACS back up ,nor any MAWs or worthwhile EW suites.

simply those guys dont even know a missile is coming fr them.

The post balakot air battle btn IAF & PAF is te only one , where both sides had AWACS & good situational awareness.

And it was the mig21 which struck first, despite fancy AMRAAMs weildinh F16s with much more powerful radar, which couldnt drive SU 30 MKI away from Brigade HQ.

Whats more no amount of TRP modules on any fighter is gonna change the efficacy of IAF su 30 MKI, which employed tactics to defeat these AIM 120s, SO dont fall fr this AESA high TR module number blah, blah
 

Steven Rogers

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Does that mean rafale is an inferior plane because of smaller AESA?

get real.

Those fancy long range hits by western airforces with fancier BVRs are only against rag tag airforces,
which neither have AWACS back up ,nor any MAWs or worthwhile EW suites.

simply those guys dont even know a missile is coming fr them.

The post balakot air battle btn IAF & PAF is te only one , where both sides had AWACS & good situational awareness.

And it was the mig21 which struck first, despite fancy AMRAAMs weildinh F16s with much more powerful radar, which couldnt drive SU 30 MKI away from Brigade HQ.

Whats more no amount of TRP modules on any fighter is gonna change the efficacy of IAF su 30 MKI, which employed tactics to defeat these AIM 120s, SO dont fall fr this AESA high TR module number blah, blah
Never mentioned that ,Rafale has aesa radar with equivalent power output ,it has better gain despite smaller antenna due to AESA.
 

ersakthivel

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Supa dupa Tejas MK 1 is in Kashmir and around airbases in Punjab, and conducting regular CAP , add this too

All day Tejas is better than JF 17, sigh
If mig21 can score against F16,

Tejas which has smaller RCS & higher power radar & longer range BVR missile will be four times more effective to say the least against F16s..

All boils down to tactics, training etc, Tech alone cant win,

Tejas has small enough RCS
&
big enough BVR missile range combo,

Will be at at par on "detecting the enemy before being detected metrics"

against any non stealth fighter currently operational.

All these 0.01 RCS fr non stealth Euro canards are for ZERO external loads , & only from the front at certain angles.

When they fly normal combat load in enemy territory with full external loads , those figures are meaningless.
 

ersakthivel

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Never mentioned that ,Rafale has aesa radar with equivalent power output ,it has better gain despite smaller antenna due to AESA.
its the radome dia which limits the fighters radar performance through out its life.

when bigger radome fighters get access to higher power TR module then advantage will change.

But this metric alone is never gonna decide which fighter wins the air battle.

WIth DIRCM & AESA based DRFM jammers harping on this radar BVR spec alone is a bit pointless.

Agreed its an a nice spec to hv.

every fighter plane has its own survival strategy
 

ersakthivel

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So current entire fleet of IAF fighters are not sufficent/ or better enough to fight the Pakistani F16 and JF 17, which was procured way before IAF got Su 30 MKI

Lol, Kudos to that WgCdr with steel of balls, fuck your RoE lemme get that Paki shit
If we F*** ROE,

it would hv been a civilian plane in the vicinity , which would hv gone up in flames from stray BVR mele.

PAF is a rouge airforce, Not IAF. It will never be.
 

ersakthivel

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https://www.janes.com/article/85107...ystems-radar-and-ew-suite-for-tejas-lca-mk-1a

Elta was selected way back in 2018 over Thales and Saab offering for aesa and ew suite.

2052 is operational on jaguar performing perfectly.

For production of mk1a first iaf has to sign the order.

About 1000 kg weight reduction goal I'm not sure how much they'll achieve.

But components are ready multi function displays are ready , aesa radar + ew suite + derby ER combo is ready. Frame changes are minimal to mk1. That is why no prototype are required. They should be able to deliver this on time. But iaf must sign the contract and release fund asap.

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ELTAs selection is also due to Israeli involvement in Tejas EW suite,

where tight integration with missiles & radar are key.
 

pc982449

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How many tejas delivered by hal in last year

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Steven Rogers

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its the radome dia which limits the fighters radar performance through out its life.

when bigger radome fighters get access to higher power TR module then advantage will change.

But this metric alone is never gonna decide which fighter wins the air battle.

WIth DIRCM & AESA based DRFM jammers harping on this radar BVR spec alone is a bit pointless.

Agreed its an a nice spec to hv.

every fighter plane has its own survival strategy
Let me tell you a fact,a radome is designed to accomodate an specific radar ,not the vice versa ,their are many factors that affect radar performance,primary are low noise and higher gain,their is nothing called high power trm ,every aesa has 8-12 watt trm,the gain is highest when 11.2watt trm is used and going above 10watt increases the noise level....DIRCM are used against ir missiles and not the radar guided bvr. DRFM jamming technique is best effective on conventional radars and low frequency radar ,it gets complicated with high frequency band radars.
 

ersakthivel

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Let me tell you a fact,a radome is designed to accomodate an specific radar ,not the vice versa ,their are many factors that affect radar performance,primary are low noise and higher gain,their is nothing called high power trm ,every aesa has 8-12 watt trm,the gain is highest when 11.2watt trm is used and going above 10watt increases the noise level....DIRCM are used against ir missiles and not the radar guided bvr. DRFM jamming technique is best effective on conventional radars and low frequency radar ,it gets complicated with high frequency band radars.
My point was fighters getting upgraded radars through out their life time,

When Tejas was designed it was not expected to carry an AESA at all.

now there are two AESA radars ELTA & UTTAM getting configured for it,

French too were ready to modify their AESA radar fr tejas & competed fr the tender.

SAAB is ready to develop GAN based radars fr tejas , if they win single engine fighter contest.

Thats what I intended to convey.

DIrectional Infra Red COunter Measures are against IR missiles as infra red is only used by IR homing not radar homing, that I know.

lets see how jamming against AESA radars evolve. AESA radars too will use only X band radio waves fr fire control.

WHat I meant was top notch AESA radar tech & BVR missile alone doesnt guarantee complete dominance , eschewing every other factor,
 
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Steven Rogers

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My point was fighters getting upgraded radars through out their life time,

When Tejas was designed it was not expected to carry an AESA at all.

now there are two AESA radars ELTA & UTTAM getting configured for it,

French too were ready to modify their AESA radar fr tejas & competed fr the tender.

SAAB is ready to develop GAN based radars fr tejas , if they win single engine fighter contest.

Thats what I intended to convey.

DIrectional Infra Red COunter Measures are against IR missiles as infra red is only used by IR homing not radar homing, that I know.

lets see how jamming against AESA radars evolve. AESA radars too will use only X band radio waves fr fire control.

WHat I meant was top notch AESA radar tech & BVR missile alone doesnt guarantee complete dominance , eschewing every other factor,
Top notch AESA with long range bvr matters a lot for a trained force,had it been the same technology with secured data link with software defined radio the iaf would have gained the complete air supremacy than gaining air superiority ..
 

IndianHawk

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ELTAs selection is also due to Israeli involvement in Tejas EW suite,

where tight integration with missiles & radar are key.
Many stories about elta when selected for jaguar upgrade insisted on order on atleast one more type hence it was assured to follow on LCA. That is the primary reason it beat Thales offering of rbe aesa ( which would probably come with meteor).



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IndianHawk

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Tell me which "superior" platform which was available and not taken by IAF against F16?
Su 30 mkis did well even against typhoons & USAF.

so why this sudden outrage?
I'm guessing it's misquoted.

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ersakthivel

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Top notch AESA with long range bvr matters a lot for a trained force,had it been the same technology with secured data link with software defined radio the iaf would have gained the complete air supremacy than gaining air superiority ..

"Key to the Mica NG’s performance is a new bipulse motor developed by Roxel. It provides the weapon with up to 30% more range, reduces its time of flight and boosts power when dealing with highly maneuvering targets.

“We can switch on the second burst whenever we want to. . . . It depends on the type of threat,” the company official says."

"Long ranges" of BVR missiles, i.e the quoted 150 Kms is its ballistic range alone,


after 50 odd (approx) Kms the missile loses the kinetic edge to engage maneuvering target is common knowledge.

Dual pulse of meteor gives it some edge. but not an assured kill at max spec range. because the weight of the propellant is going to be the same, SO no realistic increase in No escape zone possible"

dual pulse means more energy at the end game , but the initial burn through propollent has to be reduced because weight of the missile is also a concern.

Thats what I intended to high light.

our own RAmjet powered SFDR is going to be developed in future. So Tejas 's future armament & sensor path is well defined , it cant be held as a negative.

Meteor has two key techs,

RAMJET & dual pulse.

We already hv ramjet tech in AKASH, the fully powered through out the flight range missile .

Dual pulse motor is not beyond our reach.

SO tejas mk1A losing out on RBE AESA is not a significant disadvantage through out Tejas's lifetime.

Meteor is so costly, I dont know the large number number of Tejas fleet can afford it or not.

If at IAF wanted they could hv specified meteor as basic BVR when they gave MK1A ASR.

They chose not to point towards this angle.
 
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porky_kicker

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"Key to the Mica NG’s performance is a new bipulse motor developed by Roxel. It provides the weapon with up to 30% more range, reduces its time of flight and boosts power when dealing with highly maneuvering targets.

“We can switch on the second burst whenever we want to. . . . It depends on the type of threat,” the company official says."

"Long ranges" of BVR missiles, i.e the quoted 150 Kms is its ballistic range alone,


after 50 odd (approx) Kms the missile loses the kinetic edge to engage maneuvering target is common knowledge.

Dual pulse of meteor gives it some edge. but not an assured kill at max spec range. because the weight of the propellant is going to be the same, SO no realistic increase in No escape zone possible"

dual pulse means more energy at the end game , but the initial burn through propollent has to be reduced because weight of the missile is also a concern.

Thats what I intended to high light.

our own RAmjet powered SFDR is going to be developed in future. So Tejas 's future armament & sensor path is well defined , it cant be held as a negative.

Meteor has two key techs,

RAMJET & dual pulse.

We already hv ramjet tech in AKASH, the fully powered through out the flight range missile .

Dual pulse motor is not beyond our reach.

SO tejas mk1A losing out on RBE AESA is not a significant disadvantage through out Tejas's lifetime.

Meteor is so costly, I dont know the large number number of Tejas fleet can afford it or not.

If at IAF wanted they could hv specified meteor as basic BVR when they gave MK1A ASR.

They chose not to point towards this angle.
DRDO Dual pulse motor already in lrsam mrsam ngarm
 

Steven Rogers

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"Key to the Mica NG’s performance is a new bipulse motor developed by Roxel. It provides the weapon with up to 30% more range, reduces its time of flight and boosts power when dealing with highly maneuvering targets.

“We can switch on the second burst whenever we want to. . . . It depends on the type of threat,” the company official says."

"Long ranges" of BVR missiles, i.e the quoted 150 Kms is its ballistic range alone,


after 50 odd (approx) Kms the missile loses the kinetic edge to engage maneuvering target is common knowledge.

Dual pulse of meteor gives it some edge. but not an assured kill at max spec range. because the weight of the propellant is going to be the same, SO no realistic increase in No escape zone possible"

dual pulse means more energy at the end game , but the initial burn through propollent has to be reduced because weight of the missile is also a concern.

Thats what I intended to high light.

our own RAmjet powered SFDR is going to be developed in future. So Tejas 's future armament & sensor path is well defined , it cant be held as a negative.

Meteor has two key techs,

RAMJET & dual pulse.

We already hv ramjet tech in AKASH, the fully powered through out the flight range missile .

Dual pulse motor is not beyond our reach.

SO tejas mk1A losing out on RBE AESA is not a significant disadvantage through out Tejas's lifetime.

Meteor is so costly, I dont know the large number number of Tejas fleet can afford it or not.

If at IAF wanted they could hv specified meteor as basic BVR when they gave MK1A ASR.

They chose not to point towards this angle.
Ramjet on akash is diff with the ramjet on meteor......
 

pc982449

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Pulse Doppler, all aspect, look-down shoot-down capabilitiesLow sidelobe planar antennaMonopulse and guard channelsProgrammable signal processor

ELTA's ELM-2032 is an advanced multimode airborne Fire Control Radar (FCR) designed for multi-mission fighters, oriented for air-to-air, air to sea and strike missions. The radar comprises three main modules (Transmitter, Receiver Processor and Antenna) which can be customized and configured to fit all types of fighter aircraft’s nose cones (such as FA-50, F-5, Mirage, MIG 21 and more).

Technical Details

Air-to-Air (detection and tracking range up to 120 NM):

Range While Search (RWS)Single Target Track (STT)Track While Scan (TWS)Situation Awareness Mode (SAM)Dual Target Track (DTT)Raid Assessment (RA)Air Combat Modes (ACM):Vertical Scan Slewable ACM HUD ACM Boresight Adaptive Boresight

Air-to-Ground (Imaging and surface target detection up to 120 NM):

High resolution mapping - SAR mode with 3000x3000 image pixelsSMTI over RBM or SARSMTT over RBM or SARReal Beam Map (RBM)Air-to-Ground Ranging (AGR)Beacon (BCN)Weather (WA)Terrain Avoidance

Air-to-Sea (detection, tracking and classification up to 200 NM):

Sea Search (SS)Sea Targets TWSSea Target Continuous Track (STCT)Inverse SAR (ISAR) Sea target ClassificationRange Signature (RS) Sea target Classification

Performance

Supports all avionic interfacesFull software controlSmall size, very light weight requires very low power and cooling reso
Any give reason tejas mk1 jet range only 100km ???

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Kchontha

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Sfdr technology is going to astra and all the missile technologies that can be mated with bvrm is going to astra. In other words, indian ng bvraam will have all the features as similar or better than all the currently available bvraam.

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Steven Rogers

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ofcourse they r not of the same specs,

Meteor Ramjet has ducted design to vary the missile speed,


but the basic tech is same
Sfdr uses solid fuel has longer burn time and burn rate than the liquid fueled Ramjet on akash which burns for 25-30seconds.
 

IndianHawk

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Pulse Doppler, all aspect, look-down shoot-down capabilitiesLow sidelobe planar antennaMonopulse and guard channelsProgrammable signal processor

ELTA's ELM-2032 is an advanced multimode airborne Fire Control Radar (FCR) designed for multi-mission fighters, oriented for air-to-air, air to sea and strike missions. The radar comprises three main modules (Transmitter, Receiver Processor and Antenna) which can be customized and configured to fit all types of fighter aircraft’s nose cones (such as FA-50, F-5, Mirage, MIG 21 and more).

Technical Details

Air-to-Air (detection and tracking range up to 120 NM):

Range While Search (RWS)Single Target Track (STT)Track While Scan (TWS)Situation Awareness Mode (SAM)Dual Target Track (DTT)Raid Assessment (RA)Air Combat Modes (ACM):Vertical Scan Slewable ACM HUD ACM Boresight Adaptive Boresight

Air-to-Ground (Imaging and surface target detection up to 120 NM):

High resolution mapping - SAR mode with 3000x3000 image pixelsSMTI over RBM or SARSMTT over RBM or SARReal Beam Map (RBM)Air-to-Ground Ranging (AGR)Beacon (BCN)Weather (WA)Terrain Avoidance

Air-to-Sea (detection, tracking and classification up to 200 NM):

Sea Search (SS)Sea Targets TWSSea Target Continuous Track (STCT)Inverse SAR (ISAR) Sea target ClassificationRange Signature (RS) Sea target Classification

Performance

Supports all avionic interfacesFull software controlSmall size, very light weight requires very low power and cooling reso
Any give reason tejas mk1 jet range only 100km ???

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Real capabilities of mk1 radar is classified what you see in media is a basic approximation based on size of radar and power available to it.

Don't freight much over such info.

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