LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Blood+]

im gonna be honest youtube audience is next to dirt and racist too they dont know the difference (at least 50-60%)
while we cant compare the f16 and tejas they are bound to face the f16s too so its natural that those comparisons take place and lca mk1a isnt too bad if compared to f16 too its avionics are better (pak f16s are older) and its rcs is also much better than f16 once the astra mk2/3 is in production we would have an edge over the f-16s easily
plus we have one thing that pak cant counter ie MONEY and dont get me wrong in any military case money is the answer of every problem we have against pak and china too

Most of those are pakis (and the turkroaches being a more recent addition) larping as westerners, at least in my experience.

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

Most of those are pakis (and the turkroaches being a more recent addition) larping as westerners, at least in my experience.

while you think them as turk i think they arnt even turkish most of the turkroaches in twitter and all are paki too i dont see any other reason they post about india so regularly literally every alternate day

 

[Satish Sharma]

If it will be facing against the F-16 wrt PAF, then why shouldn't it be compared to the F-16?

Morever, all these comparisons shouldn't really matter on the battlefield if the IAF is smart and sets up the fight with us in the advantageous position(the capability to perform offensive actions when we like them, and where we like them)

Dude, Tejas is gonna face f16. There is no doubt about it. They're is no problem in comparing it's combat effectiveness against f16.

But when some one is specifically talking abt capabilities & performance of Tejas why it should be compared to medium weight much larger platform. Its logical to compare it with other LCAs. And call LCA ineffective despite being the best LCA right now.

Should I compare heavy weight aircrafts with f16 and call out f16 over payload & range ?
Would that make sense ?

 

[Satish Sharma]

Dude, I'm not disagreeing with your assessment at all, just your delivery. If you want to combat a false narrative, then you'd first need to make people want to hear your side; you'd want people to take you seriously. But if you start all your arguments with Ad Hominem attacks and expletives and come across as vitriolic and emotional, you think anyone would even want to listen to you, let alone take you seriously??

If you're talking abt me.
I have come with facts here this atleast
I don't think I wrote something emotional
If we have our people saying there is no problem in comparing f16 with much smaller Tejas then how come we will combat false narratives.
Size has its own limitations. Better we compare with similar size aircraft when talking abt performance & Not with the MWA

 

[DumbPilot]

Dude, Tejas is gonna face f16. There is no doubt about it. They're is no problem in comparing it's combat effectiveness against f16.

But when some one is specifically talking abt capabilities & performance of Tejas why it should be compared to medium weight much larger platform. Its logical to compare it with other LCAs. And call LCA ineffective despite being the best LCA right now.

Should I compare heavy weight aircrafts with f16 and call out f16 over payload & range ?
Would that make sense ?

Well yes, that is how you justify planes like the F-15 against planes like the F-16. Everything has its pros and cons, and just comparing combat platforms to something in their weight class is not really constructive. No one compared tanks and drones before Russia-Ukraine, yet here we are.

 

[DumbPilot]

Well yes, that is how you justify planes like the F-15 against planes like the F-16. Everything has its pros and cons, and just comparing combat platforms to something in their weight class is not really constructive. No one compared tanks and drones before Russia-Ukraine, yet here we are.

What I think is that we should be discussing what roles the LCA is able to perform and how efficiently, instead of discussing what the payload, thrust etc. is

Modern aerial warfare is one air force against the other, not one or two planes against two other planes. The Tejas will be flying with whatever the IAF combat/support network is, so I think we should discuss about that instead of whether the Tejas should be compared with the F-16 or not.

 

[Satish Sharma]

What I think is that we should be discussing what roles the LCA is able to perform and how efficiently, instead of discussing what the payload, thrust etc. is

Modern aerial warfare is one air force against the other, not one or two planes against two other planes. The Tejas will be flying with whatever the IAF combat/support network is, so I think we should discuss about that instead of whether the Tejas should be compared with the F-16 or not.

Ofc that's most important part to discuss. We all have did many many times.
But atleast we shouldn't call and let others call Tejas inferior to a medium weight aircraft right. While explaining it's performance & capabilities.
As I said size puts limitations which limits how much u can extract from a airframe. We all agree that if anywhere Tejas lacks that's in endurance and payload compared to f16. (Coz of category).
However those specs are way superior to another LCA.

Even in endurance f16 without external tanks is not gonna perform much different than Tejas as it's fuel capacity is just 700kg more & has very fuel hungry engines.Tejas is performing quite good being LCA. In payload (a2g) Tejas perform well beyond expectations from a LCA. And fullfills all requirements of user. A2a f16 will have more BVRs. Larger aircraft.
Anyways I end here.

 

[shade]

Comparing Tejas with F16

Gora gandus and the one western ass-licker here realize that the Tejas is meant to be a replacement for the vintage Mig21's right?

If we are fighting their F16 with Tejas then are Rafale and Su-30 hangar queens?

 

[Spitfire9]

Setting aside the silly chauvinistic view that Tejas will win any contract offered for a light fighter, is Nigeria a realistic prospect as a Tejas customer?

idrw.org has a report dated May 21 (no link - idrw appears to prevent links to its pages)

A couple of things in Tejas' favour versus JF-17

- US engine (more reliable than JF-17 engine and no question mark over spares availability)
- India could make competitive finance available

Of course, it does not help that there are massive question marks over anything connected with Tejas being done on time. India may see scheduling as being synonymous with wishful thinking. Other countries may view scheduling somewhat differently.

Let me try to remember the most recent Mk1A delivery schedule...

2 scheduled for delivery Feb 2024. 0 delivered... then
1 scheduled for delivery Feb 2024. 0 delivered... then
1 scheduled for delivery Mar 2024. 0 delivered... then
first delivery scheduled by end June 2024...

40 days to go before the next delivery schedule is announced?

 

[Satish Sharma]

Setting aside the silly chauvinistic view that Tejas will win any contract offered for a light fighter, is Nigeria a realistic prospect as a Tejas customer?

idrw.org has a report dated May 21 (no link - idrw appears to prevent links to its pages)

A couple of things in Tejas' favour versus JF-17

- US engine (more reliable than JF-17 engine and no question mark over spares availability)
- India could make competitive finance available

Of course, it does not help that there are massive question marks over anything connected with Tejas being done on time. India may see scheduling as being synonymous with wishful thinking. Other countries may view scheduling somewhat differently.

Let me try to remember the most recent Mk1A delivery schedule...

2 scheduled for delivery Feb 2024. 0 delivered... then
1 scheduled for delivery Feb 2024. 0 delivered... then
1 scheduled for delivery Mar 2024. 0 delivered... then
first delivery scheduled by end June 2024...

40 days to go before the next delivery schedule is announced?

I think you don't know the last minute changes.
Iaf has asked for few changes like some software changes, there was also delay in some European components coz of war, and also some airframe changes, which will obviously take time anyways would it have been possible if we had imported any other aircraft instead of home made Tejas ? Would this have been possible ?
Maybe because of delays in European components iaf would have sought the opportunity to do changes they wanted as anyways it was going to be delayed.. (just a mere speculation)
This are the perks of indigenous industry.

I hate when people without knowing anything any do ramdin rona. First know what the reason. Tejas was all set to be delivered..
Infact mh60 was delayed given the global conditions

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Dude, Tejas is gonna face f16. There is no doubt about it. They're is no problem in comparing it's combat effectiveness against f16.

But when some one is specifically talking abt capabilities & performance of Tejas why it should be compared to medium weight much larger platform. Its logical to compare it with other LCAs. And call LCA ineffective despite being the best LCA right now.

Should I compare heavy weight aircrafts with f16 and call out f16 over payload & range ?
Would that make sense ?

Even comparing Tejas with F-16 makes sense because they are likely to face each other. Even I had written an article comparing J10 with LCA Tejas as they are likely to face each other.

There are scenario of conflict. Tejas can outgun F- 16s (Which Pakistan have) easily in BVR conflict. Tejas can give F-16 a tough fight WVR combat and even beat it in some scenarios. However, Tejas can not be that effective in ground attack and air superiority because of range and payload limitation like other aircrafts.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Spoiler: .

Even comparing Tejas with F-16 makes sense because they are likely to face each other. Even I had written an article comparing J10 with LCA Tejas as they are likely to face each other.

There are scenario of conflict. Tejas can outgun F- 16s (Which Pakistan have) easily in BVR conflict. Tejas can give F-16 a tough fight WVR combat and even beat it in some scenarios. However, Tejas can not be that effective in ground attack and air superiority because of range and payload limitation like other aircrafts.

We all agree mate nobody disagrees here,
Tejas's effectiveness against f16 shall be discussed
Point is

Ofc that's most important part to discuss. We all have did many many times.
But atleast we shouldn't call and let others call Tejas inferior to a medium weight aircraft right. While explaining it's performance & capabilities.
As I said many times now, size puts limitations which limits how much u can extract from a airframe. We all agree that if anywhere Tejas lacks that's in endurance and payload compared to f16. (Coz of category).
However those specs are way superior to another LCA.

Even in endurance f16 without external tanks is not gonna perform much different than Tejas as it's fuel capacity is just 700kg more & has very fuel hungry engines.Tejas is performing quite good being LCA. In payload (a2g) Tejas perform well beyond expectations from a LCA. And fullfills all requirements of user. A2a f16 will have more BVRs. Larger aircraft.
Anyways I end here.

 

[Smoothbore125mm]

Setting aside the silly chauvinistic view that Tejas will win any contract offered for a light fighter, is Nigeria a realistic prospect as a Tejas customer?

idrw.org has a report dated May 21 (no link - idrw appears to prevent links to its pages)

Nope since tejas is 50 mil a piece people tend to get the bigger f 16 due to diplomatic reasons too
idrw misquotes and mis report many things basically it isnt a good source

A couple of things in Tejas' favour versus JF-17

- US engine (more reliable than JF-17 engine and no question mark over spares availability)
- India could make competitive finance available

hehe here i go
better rcs
better engine
better servicebility
better computers software and radar (wayy better)
better use of composites and little bit stealth too
better weapon package once the brahmos ng + astra mk2 is operational
better airframe quality (no cracks reported as of now)

Of course, it does not help that there are massive question marks over anything connected with Tejas being done on time. India may see scheduling as being synonymous with wishful thinking. Other countries may view scheduling somewhat differently.

Let me try to remember the most recent Mk1A delivery schedule...

2 scheduled for delivery Feb 2024. 0 delivered... then
1 scheduled for delivery Feb 2024. 0 delivered... then
1 scheduled for delivery Mar 2024. 0 delivered... then
first delivery scheduled by end June 2024...

40 days to go before the next delivery schedule is announced?

well thats where the problem is now hopefully nasik manufacturing facility becomes online soon

 

[MirageBlue]

Comparing Tejas with F16

Gora gandus and the one western ass-licker here realize that the Tejas is meant to be a replacement for the vintage Mig21's right?

If we are fighting their F16 with Tejas then are Rafale and Su-30 hangar queens?

That is not how it works.

On the 27th of Feb, MiG-21 Bisons were scrambled to take on F-16s and JF-17s from the PAF because they were on ORP in Srinagar.

Once the Tejas Mk1A enters service with squadrons that are based at Forward Air Bases like Nal, Jaisalmer, Bhuj, etc. they will have to take on the Operational Readiness Platform (ORP) role which means that if PAF fighters are seen coming towards the border, Tejas Mk1A fighters will have to scramble to take them on.

It is very plausible that the J-10 or F-16 will have to be tackled in such a situation. The IAF won't be able to send Rafales from Ambala everywhere along it's border. That too when they have just 18 based there and the rest are at Hasimara. Same goes with Su-30MKIs. Whichever fighter base is closest to the incursion will have to send it's fighters to face any scramble.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Spoiler: .

That is not how it works.

On the 27th of Feb, MiG-21 Bisons were scrambled to take on F-16s and JF-17s from the PAF because they were on ORP in Srinagar.

Once the Tejas Mk1A enters service with squadrons that are based at Forward Air Bases like Nal, Jaisalmer, Bhuj, etc. they will have to take on the Operational Readiness Platform (ORP) role which means that if PAF fighters are seen coming towards the border, Tejas Mk1A fighters will have to scramble to take them on.

It is very plausible that the J-10 or F-16 will have to be tackled in such a situation. The IAF won't be able to send Rafales from Ambala everywhere along it's border. That too when they have just 18 based there and the rest are at Hasimara. Same goes with Su-30MKIs. Whichever fighter base is closest to the incursion will have to send it's fighters to face any scramble.

You're right mate,
We all agree Tejas will have to face f16,J10, jj17 b3,
What we were discussing for long time was,

atleast we shouldn't call and let others call Tejas inferior to a medium weight aircraft right. While explaining it's performance & capabilities by comparing it to a medium weight A.. Which is what happening in defence circles this days be it on reddit, youtube ( In context with videos those western ytbers are making & some dfians also claim here.)
No light fighter could perform better than mwf like f16 or anyother. People just compare Tejas with f16 and prove its inferior most audience dont understand that.

As I said many times now, size puts limitations which limits how much u can extract from a airframe. We all agree that if anywhere Tejas lacks that's in endurance and payload compared to f16. (Coz of category).
However those specs are way superior to another LCA.

Even in endurance f16 without external tanks is not gonna perform much different than Tejas as it's fuel capacity is just 700kg more & has very fuel hungry engines.Tejas is performing quite good being LCA. In payload (a2g) Tejas perform well beyond expectations from a LCA. And fullfills all requirements of user. A2a f16 will have more BVRs. Larger aircraft.

 

[Spitfire9]

I think you don't know the last minute changes.
Iaf has asked for few changes like some software changes, there was also delay in some European components coz of war, and also some airframe changes, which will obviously take time anyways would it have been possible if we had imported any other aircraft instead of home made Tejas ? Would this have been possible ?
Maybe because of delays in European components iaf would have sought the opportunity to do changes they wanted as anyways it was going to be delayed.. (just a mere speculation)
This are the perks of indigenous industry.

I hate when people without knowing anything any do ramdin rona. First know what the reason. Tejas was all set to be delivered..
Infact mh60 was delayed given the global conditions

So IAF has caused further delay? Mk1A specification must have been settled and a contract to build to that spec made before Mk1A was put into production.

I thought that HAL would make damned sure of delivering according to contract. According to you they did. To the outside world I think the delay (IIRC announced 2 days before delivery was due, with no explanation explaining that IAF was responsible, thus exonerating HAL) comes across as another failure to get things done on time. That hardly instils confidence in potential overseas buyers, does it? And India says it wants to export Tejas Mk1A!

 

[sameer3694]

There are scenario of conflict. Tejas can outgun F- 16s (Which Pakistan have) easily in BVR conflict. Tejas can give F-16 a tough fight WVR combat and even beat it in some scenarios. However, Tejas can not be that effective in ground attack and air superiority because of range and payload limitation like other aircrafts.

Even the MK1-A version doesn't have ODL does it?. And without ODL, engagement in any BVR scenario is going to be difficult. AFAIK, only the newest MK1-A are being fitted with the Israeli Rafael SDR's. But even once we fully integrate MK1A with ODL, better avionics, Astra etc., the range and MTOW is still a severe limitation compared to F16.

JF17's will get pounded no doubt, but F16 will still be a big challenge.

End of day, Tejas is a point interceptor period, basically a replacement to the MIG 21's. Will only be used defensively, that's all. MK-2 version will be the real competitor

 

[rone]

Even the MK1-A version doesn't have ODL does it?. And without ODL, engagement in any BVR scenario is going to be difficult. AFAIK, only the newest MK1-A are being fitted with the Israeli Rafael SDR's. But even once we fully integrate MK1A with ODL, better avionics, Astra etc., the range and MTOW is still a severe limitation compared to F16.

JF17's will get pounded no doubt, but F16 will still be a big challenge.

End of day, Tejas is a point interceptor period, basically a replacement to the MIG 21's. Will only be used defensively, that's all. MK-2 version will be the real competitor

i dont understand what you mean by mk1a lacks ODL, b-net sdr actually an ODL, the block 52 F16 wil be inferior to lca in so many ways, for that consider where and how IAF employ LCA and PAF employ F16

in an operational scenario all air forces uses aircraft with standardized load out or weapons in our case LCA intended as a small area interceptor / defender always carry 2 wvr (r73 / asraam) and 2 bvr (python /astra) missiles also backed by nerta mk1, in this situation f16 employed offensive role along with AIM120c5 and saab awacs both IAF and PAF can see mk1a and f16 respectively , considering war time load out increases the RCS of both air craft the lca will be detected and tracked way later than F16 get detected and tracked, considering both aircraft can make firing solution using awacs radar it will be alwys lca getting the first shot out beofre f16 get a proper lock and firing solution this happend due to PAF F16 utlize pluse dollpar rdar and LCA uses AESA radar which have further range and immunity aginsit jamming

 

[Satish Sharma]

So IAF has caused further delay? Mk1A specification must have been settled and a contract to build to that spec made before Mk1A was put into production.

I thought that HAL would make damned sure of delivering according to contract. According to you they did. To the outside world I think the delay (IIRC announced 2 days before delivery was due, with no explanation explaining that IAF was responsible, thus exonerating HAL) comes across as another failure to get things done on time. That hardly instils confidence in potential overseas buyers, does it? And India says it wants to export Tejas Mk1A!

The software changes could have been done in service, the airframe changes is a mystery.
European components are delayed.
Anyways the airframe changes seems minute. As already made aircraft will go under change..
It will take time implement changes and test and certify it.
In July atleast 2 aircrafts will be received.

 

[MirageBlue]

So IAF has caused further delay? Mk1A specification must have been settled and a contract to build to that spec made before Mk1A was put into production.

I thought that HAL would make damned sure of delivering according to contract. According to you they did. To the outside world I think the delay (IIRC announced 2 days before delivery was due, with no explanation explaining that IAF was responsible, thus exonerating HAL) comes across as another failure to get things done on time. That hardly instils confidence in potential overseas buyers, does it? And India says it wants to export Tejas Mk1A!

Apparently some request related to Software Defined Radio which they wanted from the first fighter onwards. Had it been a foreign OEM they wouldn't have been able to get it given the last minute.

A 4 month delay is nothing in aerospace. You can chill. Even Lockheed Martin couldn't meet F-16V target dates. Their F-16V upgrade program was running 2 years late and that is for an upgrade program like the Tejas Mk1A.

Article link

Although the first two new jets were supposed to be delivered in late 2023, that did not happen; the delay was chalked up by the Air Force and Lockheed Martin to “complex developmental challenges” in developing new software for the fighter. Industry sources now say Taiwan should get its first F-16 Block 70 in the third quarter of 2024.

More related to software problems delaying new F-16 deliveries. Also supply chain disruptions, which can impact LM the world's largest fighter aircraft manufacturer, so why not HAL?!

Taiwan says software problems delaying new F-16 deliveries

Chiu earlier this month said the 66 F-16Vs had been delayed due to supply chain disruptions, but on Thursday further explained the problem was linked to flight control software issues and they were working to address this with the United States.

Not to mention the F-15X which is also running years behind schedule with another 8 month delay added.

I won't even go into the Boeing Saab T-7A which is several years behind schedule. And that's a trainer with no major sensors or weapons testing required being developed by 2 OEMs in Boeing and Saab!

Doesn't stop LM from offering the F-21 (which is a slightly different variant to the F-16V) and F-15X to the IAF for the MRFA. Should the IAF also not feel confident that they'll be able to deliver after sorting their issues?

I know you have an agenda to make HAL and Tejas look bad. But it's becoming too obvious now.