LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[johnj]

You seem, yet another fan of wunderwaffe.

Whatever you claiming are thausand miles from reality. We have heard lots in the past about Chalanger 2 and Leopard 2 wunderwaffe and guess what ?? Reality is just apposite.

Recently a Israeli F-35 was damaged by Syrian S-200 missile.

Do you really thing human can create GOD ??
The Q is which tank you choose to import - Russian or western ??
Rafael's Trophy Active Protection System (APS) has been chosen as the baseline APS for the new Leopard 2 A8 MBT
The British Ministry of Defence (MOD) has awarded Rafael a £20 million contract for the cutting-edge TROPHY Active Protection System (APS)
''Recently a Israeli F-35 was damaged by Syrian S-200 missile''. - do you having reliable source to support this
Like it or not, French and Germans are designing new MBT, British also developing new ones and they are going to sell a large no.of tanks to foreign costumers

 

[vishnugupt]

Do you really thing human can create GOD ??
The Q is which tank you choose to import - Russian or western ??
Rafael's Trophy Active Protection System (APS) has been chosen as the baseline APS for the new Leopard 2 A8 MBT
The British Ministry of Defence (MOD) has awarded Rafael a £20 million contract for the cutting-edge TROPHY Active Protection System (APS)
''Recently a Israeli F-35 was damaged by Syrian S-200 missile''. - do you having reliable source to support this
Like it or not, French and Germans are designing new MBT, British also developing new ones and they are going to sell a large no.of tanks to foreign costumers

But your claims are like F-35 and F22 are GOD created where it can intercept Su-35 from 350 km but Su-35 can only intercept from 35 km.

What I am saying, do not make such weird claims. In war, there is always a counter balance.

Now days fighting a war from imported weapons is stupid idea. If you are not self sufficient in basic weaponry then keep quiet.

 

[johnj]

But your claims are like F-35 and F22 are GOD created where it can intercept Su-35 from 350 km but Su-35 can only intercept from 35 km.

lol. I never said or used the term ''intercept''

Now days fighting a war from imported weapons is stupid idea. If you are not self sufficient in basic weaponry then keep quiet.

Then why are you writing in defense forums ??

Do you know the difference b/w interception and FCR ??
Do you really think uttam development is a bad thing ? and LCA mk1 is better than MK1a ?

 

[vishnugupt]

lol. I never said or used the term ''intercept''

You mentioned word Spoting, which is synonyms to interception.

Then why are you writing in defense forums ??

Read again, meant for countries, not for you. You can't wage a war against country. So relax.

Do you know the difference b/w interception and FCR ??

FCR radar have longer range for search and track but lesser for engagement. Tracking is synonyms to interception. Not true for engagement ( Guiding missiles )

Do you really think uttam development is a bad thing ? and LCA mk1 is better than MK1a ?

I have no obsession to defend stupidity so UTTAM is better hence Mk1a will be better than MK1 . But what would be outrageous when I claim MK1A will spot MK1 from 350 km and MK1 can't beyond 20km.

For your information:-

RAM work against X band which FCR uses but ground radar work on S band or L band against which RAM doesn't work well.

Shape stealth does not work well when you have integrated radar in big area.

IRST can track stealth from > 60km and guide missile at 40km Range.

Your claims are egregious when you say Su-35 can't track F 22 beyond 20 km. Hence I objected. But rather accepting mistake you keep arguing for no reason.

 

[johnj]

You mentioned word Spoting, which is synonyms to interception.

Good thing you know basics.
Since you already know search, and TWS functions, the are the bascic functions of any radar, FCR is more advanced than basic radar. When a radar using search mode aka scanning a particular area, the radar spot some something for ex a UFO. Next step is identify & track, after that a weapon lock at the end weapon release. When the UFO/target become aware of any of this, and take necessary measure or the aam hit it target, then you can use the term interception, otherwise we forced to say IAF intercepting PAF jets every day using long range surveillance radar, and PAF intercepted IAF jets during balakot air strike using surveillance radar

I have no obsession to defend stupidity so UTTAM is better hence Mk1a will be better than MK1 . But what would be outrageous when I claim MK1A will spot MK1 from 350 km and MK1 can't beyond 20km.

Again you are talking about stupidity. Like it or not mk1a can spot and acquire a lock on mk1 a way before mk1 can do the same. In simple all radar were not same
FYI. uttam can spot 2m2 rcs target around 150/200km and AAAU can do the same around 350km+ and F22 FCR can do the same in excess of 350km
Frontal RCS of F22 is around 0.0001 m2 or −40 dBsm – equivalent to the radar reflection of a "steel marble" and Su 35 in excess of 3m2 and increases further due to compact load. Phalcon can spot a fighter target around/excess of 400km

RAM work against X band which FCR uses but ground radar work on S band or L band against which RAM doesn't work well.

Very funny
RAM - Radar-absorbing material
RADAR - RAdio Detecting And Ranging
US/EU/China etc now focusing on more advance RAM which will cover S and other bands
Then main reason why these countries started with X band becz most of FCR uses X band.
FYI - FCR of F22, F35, LCA, MKI uses X band
But same cant say regarding Chinese Jxxx copies.

IRST can track stealth from > 60km and guide missile at 40km Range.

Yes, they can, but unfortunately F22 also having IR reduction features, which reduces the range at which IRST can spot F22 and F22 pilot is not so dumb to bring F22 infront of their IRST

Your claims are egregious when you say Su-35 can't track F 22 beyond 20 km. Hence I objected. But rather accepting mistake you keep arguing for no reason.

Only it can if F22 pilot wanted to or Su35 FCR in OFF condition and F22 flying infront of Su35 around 20++ km, one major disadvantage of F22, it lacks F35 DAS IRST
Your objection is based on luck, and under normal conditions, 1v1, Su35 will use its radar to TWS,[f22 also do the same, but] F22 RWR picks su35 radar signals 100s miles away and direct an/apg 77 to use narrow beam for search the source and can spot su35 around 350m [sensor fusion]and avoid Su35 search range, means chances of su35 spotting F22 is close to zero.
If you consider luck, a mig21 is capable of shooting down F35, F22, J20, 6th gen etc, and why develop tejas ?? and why don't add a irst in its belly and use it to counter stealth ??
FYI, Su30mki, su35, su57 having search range around/over 400km, and capable of spotting a huge airliner in excess of 300~350km, but tracking, identifying them depends on lots of factors.
Intercepting a signal and a fighter jet is two different things. BAE Systems EI&S AN/ALR 94 radar warning receiver (RWR) used in F22 having range in excess of 460km, some says

means F22 can detect su35 around 450km/900km or more, and anapg77 lpi mode reduces the chance of detection.

No wonder IAF not interested in su35 and cancelled su57, and rejected super sukhoi upgrade and currently only considering upgrade using DRDO tech, the tech which is common with LCA pgrm.

 

[MirageBlue]

can someone please bring this thread back on track to Tejas Mk1 and Mk1A discussions instead of all this unrelated stuff? Moderators?

 

[Bleh]

In simple f22 can spot mki 350km away but mki can only spot F22 less than 20km, means F22 can kill mki without showing

No it doesn't mean that at all.. life isn't that simple.

The RWR will tell MKI is being targeted. If we weren't still flying 20-yr-old garbage then a Spectra quality jamming system would work at two levels: 1. disrupt the tracking & break the missile-lock & 2. Spoof the missile with false target signatures. This is what the Egyptian Rafales did to the their Su-35s in exercises, resulting in a canceled order for one & follow-on for the other.
Anyways if it can delay till <100kms then the F-22 heat signals will be picked up by IRST & systems like Astra-IR can go engage it.

In future there's gonna be radar homing AAMs that'll act like A2G anti-radiation missiles.

 

[Bleh]

Hahahaha..... Seems you got hurt just by hearing the claim.

But it's true. A Israeli F-35 was sent back to USA for Repair.

F-35 is a capable aircraft but it's far from wunderwaffe. There is others way to detect stealth aircraft.

You saying it didn't make it true....

Is there mention in Vedas?.. there seems to be everything predicted in the Vedas

 

[omaebakabaka]

No it doesn't mean that at all.. life isn't that simple.

The RWR will tell MKI is being targeted. If we weren't still flying 20-yr-old garbage then a Spectra quality jamming system would work at two levels: 1. disrupt the tracking & break the missile-lock & 2. Spoof the missile with false target signatures. This is what the Egyptian Rafales did to the their Su-35s in exercises, resulting in a canceled order for one & follow-on for the other.
Anyways if it can delay till <100kms then the F-22 heat signals will be picked up by IRST & systems like Astra-IR can go engage it.

In future there's gonna be radar homing AAMs that'll act like A2G anti-radiation missiles.

0.0001m2, give me a break.....that is like Microsoft claiming lot of things in their junk software marketing. Fine print is just secret in this case....stealth is wrong word but stealthy is probably better and minimizing radar signature would be more accurate. If all it took was 10 f-35s to Ukraine to ground Russian AF then they could have done it....lets wait for proof and bet if 22 ever takes to battle before it gets retired against a peer. Pentagon has become nest for corruption unfortunately and once effective US MIC is incapable of delivering practical and affordable products.

 

[Bleh]

0.0001m2, give me a break.....that is like Microsoft claiming lot of things in their junk software marketing. Fine print is just secret in this case....stealth is wrong word but stealthy is probably better and minimizing radar signature would be more accurate. If all it took was 10 f-35s to Ukraine to ground Russian AF then they could have done it....lets wait for proof and bet if 22 ever takes to battle before it gets retired against a peer. Pentagon has become nest for corruption unfortunately and once effective US MIC is incapable of delivering practical and affordable products.

I don't think you meant to quote me...

 

[omaebakabaka]

I don't think you meant to quote me...

Not really just adding some context to that discussion....anyone can make a statement we are number 1 and so on....until there is data to show its just something that will not even pass as hypothesis defence if you are doing thesis. All these things may be true but where is the proof other than claims? It is hard to believe west more and more as their general mindset can't be further away from reality these days....info propaganda can only do so much after which even the dumbest of the dumb will start to question.

 

[johnj]

No it doesn't mean that at all.. life isn't that simple.

The RWR will tell MKI is being targeted. If we weren't still flying 20-yr-old garbage then a Spectra quality jamming system would work at two levels: 1. disrupt the tracking & break the missile-lock & 2. Spoof the missile with false target signatures. This is what the Egyptian Rafales did to the their Su-35s in exercises, resulting in a canceled order for one & follow-on for the other.
Anyways if it can delay till <100kms then the F-22 heat signals will be picked up by IRST & systems like Astra-IR can go engage it.

In future there's gonna be radar homing AAMs that'll act like A2G anti-radiation missiles.

LoL.
Su30mki or Su35 don't having spectra level EW suite.
Egyptian Rafales don't have astra IR
What is astra ir
What the hell are you talking about
Anyways
I think you don't know/missed about sensor fusion tech and LPI mode of F22 FCR.
FYI- unlike all stealth fighter jets in the world, F22 incorporated stealth tech not only to eliminate RADAR signature, but also IR signature and Visual signature By your theory J20/J10 can spot rafale 400km/200km away and use long range EO/IIR missile to shot them down.
Now lets consider you dumb points
1. disrupt the tracking & break the missile-lock
USAF is not using old tech anymore, In the case of us, it is not easy to disrupt tracking & break of powerful radar like bars or uttam or elm
Once missile seeker attain a lock, its extremely hard to disrupt tracking & break the lock of the aam, but only few countries manage to develop such capability and the same time they are developing BVR missile with RF sensors.
This kind of tech make meteor/astra etc obsolete and give pl15 huge advantage.
FYI- Su35 can't break aim120d lock aided by anapg 77 and with home-on-jam capability. [same with mki/rafale maybe/mki able to do this trick against aim120c5]
2. Spoof the missile with false target signatures.
FYI- both mki and 35 lack this capability
This is some simple reason why IAF/GoI paid 65mil$ for mk1 and morethan 110mil$ for rafale, and why we use DRDO RWR for mki

No it doesn't mean that at all.. life isn't that simple - lol, life is more simple if you flying a top tier 5th gen against a lesser tier 4th gen.

In future there's gonna be radar homing AAMs that'll act like A2G anti-radiation missiles - nope, too expensive to waste a high tier missile with less warhead/no warhead. in past its common to use radar homing AAMs head tech for A2G anti-radiation missiles, but not in present or future, becz more than 80%[90%] arm miss their target. Future ARM designers consider with multiseeker tech
====================================================
Back to LCA thread
LCA, both mk1 and mk1a lacks highly advanced EW suits like spectra or cant do point 1 and 2,
ASPJ pod help to achieve point one, but it capability degrades against pl15
Rafale superior to mki and mki superior to lca except fcr and engine, and F22 superior to all three. Rafale major advantage against F22 are OSF, spectra, mica ir, sensor fusion and meteor ------------ mk1 upto a uttam lacks all these & anti RF stealth capability ------------ MK2 comes with all these capability

 

[omaebakabaka]

LoL.
Su30mki or Su35 don't having spectra level EW suite.
Egyptian Rafales don't have astra IR
What is astra ir
What the hell are you talking about
Anyways
I think you don't know/missed about sensor fusion tech and LPI mode of F22 FCR.
FYI- unlike all stealth fighter jets in the world, F22 incorporated stealth tech not only to eliminate RADAR signature, but also IR signature and Visual signature By your theory J20/J10 can spot rafale 400km/200km away and use long range EO/IIR missile to shot them down.

Boss, that is all good....but like I am the greatest martial artist that never fought one bout in any form and retired but claiming all titles.....this is BS but dumb generations don't need reality or common sense.

 

[johnj]

Boss, that is all good....but like I am the greatest martial artist that never fought one bout in any form and retired but claiming all titles.....this is BS but dumb generations don't need reality or common sense.

Lol
cancel all lca orders and terminate indigenous fighter jet programs and only import proven mall in warfare, including brand new mig21
happy now, boss ??

 

[johnj]

Not really just adding some context to that discussion....anyone can make a statement we are number 1 and so on....until there is data to show its just something that will not even pass as hypothesis defence if you are doing thesis. All these things may be true but where is the proof other than claims? It is hard to believe west more and more as their general mindset can't be further away from reality these days....info propaganda can only do so much after which even the dumbest of the dumb will start to question.

Becz none us having a counter theory, and it is easy to assume jf17 is a junk and f16 is not, j20 inferior to f22 or rafale
why the hxxl no one shoot down a f15abcd ??
why ------------ we not using rd33 or al31 in lca ??
may be you are right ada, drdo, iaf run by dumb generations don't need reality or common sense.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Lol
cancel all lca orders and terminate indigenous fighter jet programs and only import proven mall in warfare, including brand new mig21
happy now, boss ??

LCA is not claiming out of the world nonsense....so apples to oranges. Frame of reference is fundamental to state anything....drwaing tangents is helpful but often not necessary.

 

[johnj]

LCA is not claiming out of the world nonsense....so apples to oranges. Frame of reference is fundamental to state anything....drwaing tangents is helpful but often not necessary.

lol. India choose western tech for lca and working with them for NexGen tech by believing their nonsense, and even brought/buying their equipment's

 

[omaebakabaka]

Becz none us having a counter theory, and it is easy to assume jf17 is a junk and f16 is not, j20 inferior to f22 or rafale
why the hxxl no one shoot down a f15abcd ??
why ------------ we not using rd33 or al31 in lca ??
may be you are right ada, drdo, iaf run by dumb generations don't need reality or common sense.

Western engine building is based on incremental and century old sciecne and art, they have most successful civilian programs and their reliability is something that can be proven with data around the world in terms of number of flights that fly with their engines and same with military....so lot of data exists and counter claiming that is not necessary but same can;t be said about this claims as there is simply a statement. You are too dull to argue...I am not the type that will accept without convincing argument backed up by some data....F-22 is at 60 to 70% of its peak life time and has not proven its claims convincingly...its not f-22 fault, its plebs that can't wait to hold their excitement till real usage data comes along...

 

[johnj]

Western engine building is based on incremental and century old sciecne and art, they have most successful civilian programs and their reliability is something that can be proven with data around the world in terms of number of flights that fly with their engines and same with military....so lot of data exists and counter claiming that is not necessary but same can;t be said about this claims as there is simply a statement. You are too dull to argue...I am not the type that will accept without convincing argument backed up by some data....F-22 is at 60 to 70% of its peak life time and has not proven its claims convincingly...its not f-22 fault, its plebs that can't wait to hold their excitement till real usage data comes along...

lol Every one who want so sell, claims some thing, and people consider these claims to buy their product
claims and reality is two different things
it is not good to start a war for one simple reason, for you case RCS claim of f22, and you start writing nonsense, and behaving like a idiot
Two things to understand in this case
1. It does matter what actual f22 rcs is, only thing what we know, its having lest rcs among all jets
2. Russia over exaggerating su35 capability, both china and Egypt excursive proves this
In simple, F22 can easily shot down su35 without showing itself, same theory is applicable to AMCA, and LCA mk2 gain first see, first shoot against mki,
Bottom line, you act like dumb and don't need reality or common sense to support a over exaggerating clam to counter an exaggerating clam
FYI- all these unrelated comments start when one bring Ukraine war into lca thread
F22 is only use by USAF, only way F22 can prove its self by shooting down similar aircraft, ie J20, a war with US and China can easily escalate into a major conflict or even a third world war. Its is better to sallow a lie than asking for a WW3, its not about IQ or proof, but wisdom
This is how things looks - USA mastered sheath tech and developed 6+ stealth aircraft. only other country able to develop stealth fighter jet is china, if US says F22 having RCS value less than .0001m2, its better to support it unless you have a valued proof that they are lying, like China, and they claim they detected F22
THE QUESTION IS DO YOU HAVE ANY VALIED PROOF THAT USA LYING ABOUT F22 RCS ??

 

[vishnugupt]

You saying it didn't make it true....

Is there mention in Vedas?.. there seems to be everything predicted in the Vedas

Just tell me why is it important to assault my religion if you don't like what I said???

Are you a abdul or Alfred??? Did Mohammad or Virgin Mary told you that Israeli F-35 wasn't damaged in Syria???

Vedas never claimed future predictions. It is a job of filthy Monotheistic religions and asshole Bheemta mc.

Whoever assault my religion unnecessary, is my enemy.

https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2020/12/327745/israel-claims-birds-not-syria-took-down-96-million-f-35-fighter-jet

Now it's your turn Bhosda pillar to prove opposite.?? Or shut up your borrowed Abrahamic ass