LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Johny_Baba]

Wouldn't be possible for multiple reasons.

1) First, the IR targeting pod you're referring to for the Tejas is the Litening LDP. That pod itself is jam packed with electronics, cooling circuits, computers, etc. It has the IR sensors, the TV cameras, all the sensors and the computers for processing the images that it receives.

2) The Litening LDP pod weighs 208 kg. Not light at all. And that pylon station is rated accordingly. It isn't a regular hard point where you can load a 500 kg bomb for e.g.

3)Now the ASPJ pod also is packed with sensors and computers to process the signals it receives. All of which have their own weight, their own electrical requirement (which is not insignificant), generate their own intense heat due to the amount of computations that are going on and need their own cooling as a result.

4) That ASPJ pod will likely weigh ~200 kg itself thanks to all the equipment it carries. Adding all that into the LDP (which doesn't have real estate to fit any more electronics) will only increase the weight of the LDP, even assuming you somehow lengthen the LDP to try to fit it all inside. Plus it will increase the cooling requirement of the LDP several fold due to the amount of heat that a SPJ will generate.

5) I'm not 100% sure of this, but the LDP's location is fine since it mostly needs to scan the lower and front sector of the airplane. But the SPJ needs to have it's receivers not masked by the fuselage and be able to receive signals from all 360 degrees.

6) Ideal location for the electronics of the SPJ as well the cooling circuit for it would have been the rear fuselage of the Tejas. Unfortunately, the Tejas is already too jam packed internally and doesn't have enough space left to fit all the SPJ's electronics within the fuselage. Keep in mind, this requirement for internal EW suite was never even contemplated when the Tejas LCA was sized in 1989. Otherwise they would've made it a longer airplane with enough internal real estate available for growth in scope of requirements that would need additional internal real estate.

Hope this clarification makes sense.

hhmm in this case can we try to integrate SPJ on Mk2 giving that it's yet to be made, is going to be powered with better engine and is in 'medium' category now

we should seriously consider all these things to integrate EOTS, SPJ and so on future jets from beginning at suitable positions instead of putting it on pylons and sacrifising a missile or so.

 

[binayak95]

just a question since i'm noob when it comes to electronics etc;
this jamming pod's shape is quite similar to those laser IR targeting pods etc meant for underbelly pylon on Tejas;
say, by any engineering magic and all, can we integrate both in one single unit ? granted it may go heavier but underbelly centreline pod on Tejas can already withstand 1200 KG for that fuel tank attachment so maybe we can sacrifise a bit there and give that towards this proposed "targeting pod + self protecting jammer pod" unit ?

Reminder that DRDO started to make indigeneous jammer pod for Su-30MKI when the IAF complained that russian supplied one was heavier plus it used to be mounted on wingtips and in return ruining flight envelope on that one, worse was it had limited compatibility, capabilities with our other custom solutions on Su-30MKI...
So yeah, can we try to attempt similar here by combining both pods for same "LD" pylon under Tejas ?

The electronics inside are completely different. Different components, different requirements, different cooling needs. So unless we invent room temp superconductivity ... wait a minute

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

just a question since i'm noob when it comes to electronics etc;
this jamming pod's shape is quite similar to those laser IR targeting pods etc meant for underbelly pylon on Tejas;
say, by any engineering magic and all, can we integrate both in one single unit ? granted it may go heavier but underbelly centreline pod on Tejas can already withstand 1200 KG for that fuel tank attachment so maybe we can sacrifise a bit there and give that towards this proposed "targeting pod + self protecting jammer pod" unit ?

Reminder that DRDO started to make indigeneous jammer pod for Su-30MKI when the IAF complained that russian supplied one was heavier plus it used to be mounted on wingtips and in return ruining flight envelope on that one, worse was it had limited compatibility, capabilities with our other custom solutions on Su-30MKI...
So yeah, can we try to attempt similar here by combining both pods for same "LD" pylon under Tejas ?

From my limited robotics experience wouldnt the targeting payload interfere with the radar antenna?

 

[MirageBlue]

hhmm in this case can we try to integrate SPJ on Mk2 giving that it's yet to be made, is going to be powered with better engine and is in 'medium' category now

we should seriously consider all these things to integrate EOTS, SPJ and so on future jets from beginning at suitable positions instead of putting it on pylons and sacrifising a missile or so.

The SPJ on the Tejas Mk2 is going to be internally located. The receivers and emitters (for jamming the signals it receives) will be mounted on the wing tips.

 

[binayak95]

From my limited robotics experience wouldnt the targeting payload interfere with the radar antenna?

EMI EMC is going to be a headache to be sure. But there wont be any space for both to begin with

 

[johnj]

The electronics inside are completely different. Different components, different requirements, different cooling needs. So unless we invent room temp superconductivity ... wait a minute

From my limited robotics experience wouldnt the targeting payload interfere with the radar antenna?

Q. EW pod works under RF range and Targeting pod in between UV~IR ?? Right or wrong ??
I think there is no interference b/w two due to different freq. not sure though

 

[binayak95]

Q. EW pod works under RF range and Targeting pod in between UV~IR ?? Right or wrong ??
I think there is no interference b/w two due to different freq. not sure though

You are correct.
the interference will be because of close proximity of high power density circuitry, and not frequencies

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Q. EW pod works under RF range and Targeting pod in between UV~IR ?? Right or wrong ??
I think there is no interference b/w two due to different freq. not sure though

Yeah obviously not same frequency, I meant that when you put camera in front of radar, camera and associated electronics will interfere with radar signals.

Only way these could be combined IG is to have some f35 style EOTS thing in the center of the EW pod, which 1) is frankenstein as fuck and 2) Is it worth doing these gymnastics over just using 2 pods?

 

[Johny_Baba]

The SPJ on the Tejas Mk2 is going to be internally located. The receivers and emitters (for jamming the signals it receives) will be mounted on the wing tips.

so like, antennas on wingtips or in general far away places from central fuselage, attached via internal wiring to a centrally located SPJ unit ?
is there any existing example of such things, SPECTRA maybe ?

 

[Bleh]

Yeah obviously not same frequency, I meant that when you put camera in front of radar, camera and associated electronics will interfere with radar signals.

Only way these could be combined IG is to have some f35 style EOTS thing in the center of the EW pod, which 1) is frankenstein as fuck and 2) Is it worth doing these gymnastics over just using 2 pods?

It does eat up a valuable missile pylon. Tejas with a hammer will carry on only 1 R-77 because the fuckers didn't bother rating the mid-board pylons at be CCM capable (maybe Python-5 will work as it's internally similar to Derby)

This layout is another option that has been used elsewhere.

 

[Johny_Baba]

Yeah obviously not same frequency, I meant that when you put camera in front of radar, camera and associated electronics will interfere with radar signals.

Only way these could be combined IG is to have some f35 style EOTS thing in the center of the EW pod, which 1) is frankenstein as fuck and 2) Is it worth doing these gymnastics over just using 2 pods?

but even then, developing capabilities is a must, back then IAF and HAL/ADA did not consider the protection pod part and now we have to start over while others are moving towards advanced things; and even on AMCA getting a F-35 style integrated EOTS is a question itself as of now, while China is putting their own systems like that on J-20, J-35 (i guess) and so.

 

[Johny_Baba]

This layout is another option that has been used elsewhere.

judging from wing shape and all, is that Mig-29 of some flavour ? also from where ? what is that pod above the ruusi missile ?

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

 

[Blademaster]

Is that Mk1A or Mk1?

 

[DumbPilot]

Is that Mk1A or Mk1?

Most likely Mk1(??) There are no physical difference on late Mk1 series and Mk1A to my knowledge

 

[Neeraj Mathur]

Is that Mk1A or Mk1?

Cant tell just by looking

 

[Blademaster]

Most likely Mk1(??) There are no physical difference on late Mk1 series and Mk1A to my knowledge

Does the Mk1 have the refueling probe? IIRC Mk1 does not have that refueling probe.

 

[aditya10r]

The electronics inside are completely different. Different components, different requirements, different cooling needs. So unless we invent room temp superconductivity ... wait a minute

+LK-99.

 

[MirageBlue]

so like, antennas on wingtips or in general far away places from central fuselage, attached via internal wiring to a centrally located SPJ unit ?
is there any existing example of such things, SPECTRA maybe ?

Receivers and transmitters are going to be in places where they are not masked by the fuselage or wings. The processors will be located within the fuselage so that they won't need a dedicated pod to house them.

 

[MirageBlue]

Is that Mk1A or Mk1?

LA-5019, Tejas Mk1 FOC variant from No.18 'Flying Bullets' squadron