LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[astransastra]

Plus real field test, most of member in this forum consider its like intergalactic tests
On the other hand the engineering/innovation you talking about happening inside a semiconductor chip which is protected by a ECE/Mech Engineers innovation
In simple it doesn't matter how much a engineer is earing, but important this is how good is the test facilities, labs and safety, particularly safety very important in engineering, same can't say about the engineering you are talking about. Huge Salaries is a important in engineering in software field but for other engineering fields, safety is more important

OFCOURSE Safety is important in Engineering and by logical extension IT IS IMPORTANT in "Software" Engineering too. I work in Software Engineering field and i see huge difference in thinking between employees who had been properly trained as Engineers from Good engineering colleges and the employees who did MCAs or ones who got some computer degree in NIITs ( No disrespect to those who had taken that NIIT or MCA route, but the difference simply can't be ignored.). There is a reason Software companies prefer to hire new talent from Engineering colleges! Those who still consider "Software" Engineering doesn't require any safety, they better find more about how much safety is provided by IoT and software integration and how many derailments and loss of lives can be avoided these days. Lot of self diagnostic software processes validate all is well before the locomotive starts its journey.

 

[MonaLazy]

www.ajaishukla.com/2023/04/hal-inaugurates-third-assembly-line-for.html?m=1

HAL inaugurates third assembly line for Tejas fighters, raises capacity to 24 fighters yearly

The Mark 1-A would be faster and more agile than the current Mark I. Developing it would involve shaving off 800 kilogrammes of weight from the current fighter, especially from systems like the landing gear, which are currently “over-engineered”, or built heavy, for safety. HAL also proposes to remove 300 kg of dead weight distributed across the Mark I to balance the fighter evenly.

Has this news ever been posted here? Mk1 -> Mk1A with 1100 kgs less dead weight will mean 1.1 tonnes more payload?
That would make its payload equal Mirage-2000

 

[MirageBlue]

www.ajaishukla.com/2023/04/hal-inaugurates-third-assembly-line-for.html?m=1

HAL inaugurates third assembly line for Tejas fighters, raises capacity to 24 fighters yearly

The Mark 1-A would be faster and more agile than the current Mark I. Developing it would involve shaving off 800 kilogrammes of weight from the current fighter, especially from systems like the landing gear, which are currently “over-engineered”, or built heavy, for safety. HAL also proposes to remove 300 kg of dead weight distributed across the Mark I to balance the fighter evenly.

Has this news ever been posted here? Mk1 -> Mk1A with 1100 kgs less dead weight will mean 1.1 tonnes more payload?
That would make its payload equal Mirage-2000

Ajai Shukla is the only one who keeps talking about reducing weight of the Tejas Mk1A. From all other quarters, this doesn't seem to be the case. I would wait for confirmation from someone like Grp Cpt HVT. Ajai Shukla has proven to be wrong in the past.

 

[johnj]

OFCOURSE Safety is important in Engineering and by logical extension IT IS IMPORTANT in "Software" Engineering too. I work in Software Engineering field and i see huge difference in thinking between employees who had been properly trained as Engineers from Good engineering colleges and the employees who did MCAs or ones who got some computer degree in NIITs ( No disrespect to those who had taken that NIIT or MCA route, but the difference simply can't be ignored.). There is a reason Software companies prefer to hire new talent from Engineering colleges! Those who still consider "Software" Engineering doesn't require any safety, they better find more about how much safety is provided by IoT and software integration and how many derailments and loss of lives can be avoided these days. Lot of self diagnostic software processes validate all is well before the locomotive starts its journey.

I am unable to find any semiconductor chip exploding like a bomb or any software engineer died do to his own wrong programming. In civil, electrical, mech, chemical engg death and handicapped common in olden days, still there is huge dangerous involved. It is the responsibility of mech/electrical engg to provide safety for people like you. Computer software is the most safest field, more safer than a hospital, becz your Eco system is guarded by top mech and electrical engineers - stop posting nonsense, since you don't have any idea about engineering Airborne Surveillance Platform

The Airborne Surveillance Platform (ASP) is an Indian defence project initiated by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) with the aim to produce an Airborne Early Warning System. Two prototypes were developed and flight tested for three years. The project was cancelled in 1999 after the prototype aircraft crashed, killing eight scientists and the aircrew.

the is the kind od risk ADA dealing with, and its a very small and rare risk in engineering field.
Sometimes loss of life is necessary in the field of Engg.
Do you know the the engineers, whos providing safety for you and your fell employees and your working environment to the highest standard is called ??
If what you are saying is true, then there is no need for explosive warhead, in missiles or bombs or rockets
If you are a bolt or AI pgrm or living inside a semiconductor chip, simply neglect my above post
Seriously do you know how Software revolution started in India and how programmed is trained now a days ??
Why everyone in your field need to think like same ??
The thing you complaining/saying about your field is the main strength of software field, which leads to great independent invitation, I know a lots of programmer coming from worst collages making 1cr to 5cr or above pa. It doesn't matter from which collage a programmer coming from, but how they think, their IQ level and knowledge in other fields matters. I also seen companies offering 1cr pa coming from worst collages with a minimum labs.
Stop comparing things no one can compare.

 

[rohit b3]

Lol kuch

www.ajaishukla.com/2023/04/hal-inaugurates-third-assembly-line-for.html?m=1

HAL inaugurates third assembly line for Tejas fighters, raises capacity to 24 fighters yearly

The Mark 1-A would be faster and more agile than the current Mark I. Developing it would involve shaving off 800 kilogrammes of weight from the current fighter, especially from systems like the landing gear, which are currently “over-engineered”, or built heavy, for safety. HAL also proposes to remove 300 kg of dead weight distributed across the Mark I to balance the fighter evenly.

Has this news ever been posted here? Mk1 -> Mk1A with 1100 kgs less dead weight will mean 1.1 tonnes more payload?
That would make its payload equal Mirage-2000

Lol, kuch bhi. The current Tejas weight is 6.6 tons empty and it can carry 2500 kgs of fuel and 4000 kgs weapons payload, thus a total of 6.5k tons payload(fuel and weapons).
So Ajai Shukla is saying, 1.1k tons will be shaved off and the 5.5 tons fighter would carry 6.5k tons payload? Lol, byeee physics!

PS - I would be happy if they can shave of even 300 kgs. Can help with the TW ratio.

 

[astransastra]

I am unable to find any semiconductor chip exploding like a bomb or any software engineer died do to his own wrong programming. In civil, electrical, mech, chemical engg death and handicapped common in olden days, still there is huge dangerous involved. It is the responsibility of mech/electrical engg to provide safety for people like you. Computer software is the most safest field, more safer than a hospital, becz your Eco system is guarded by top mech and electrical engineers - stop posting nonsense, since you don't have any idea about engineering Airborne Surveillance Platform

In all the fields you mentioned like Civil, Mech, Chemical do you think there is no dependence on software for proper operation of critical systems? It may be so in olden days...but not in the present world you are living in!

If your definition of safety is narrow and limited to the environment of the engineers work in, then yes Software engineering is the safest work environment. But if you can expand your safety definition and want to consider the safety of users using the software it has huge safety considerations.

Try to find out how software can prevent loss of lives from derailments from below link.

Positive train control - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also would like to remind it was a software glitch which caused the Boeing 737 Max to be grounded until root cause analysis was performed and the core issue was fixed.

Boeing 737 MAX groundings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I guess i have showed enough proof of safety consideration when developing software. Please do understand it takes lot of unit testing and extensive use of tools to test the software before actual use. It is huge cost to the company, but never the less essential for safety. I leave it to your discretion if you still want to think software engineering doesn't have safety considerations.

 

[Bleh]

Lol kuch

Lol, kuch bhi. The current Tejas weight is 6.6 tons empty and it can carry 2500 kgs of fuel and 4000 kgs weapons payload, thus a total of 6.5k tons payload(fuel and weapons).
So Ajai Shukla is saying, 1.1k tons will be shaved off and the 5.5 tons fighter would carry 6.5k tons payload? Lol, byeee physics!

PS - I would be happy if they can shave of even 300 kgs. Can help with the TW ratio.

As per their official poster that I shared, upgraded Mark1A is 7.1t empty

 

[johnj]

In all the fields you mentioned like Civil, Mech, Chemical do you think there is no dependence on software for proper operation of critical systems? It may be so in olden days...but not in the present world you are living in!

If your definition of safety is narrow and limited to the environment of the engineers work in, then yes Software engineering is the safest work environment. But if you can expand your safety definition and want to consider the safety of users using the software it has huge safety considerations.

Try to find out how software can prevent loss of lives from derailments from below link.

Positive train control - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also would like to remind it was a software glitch which caused the Boeing 737 Max to be grounded until root cause analysis was performed and the core issue was fixed.

Boeing 737 MAX groundings - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I guess i have showed enough proof of safety consideration when developing software. Please do understand it takes lot of unit testing and extensive use of tools to test the software before actual use. It is huge cost to the company, but never the less essential for safety. I leave it to your discretion if you still want to think software engineering doesn't have safety considerations.

Lol You don't know anything about engineering and your comment is the proof itself
Only thing you writing is pure nonsense
Mechanical engineering is consider as the god/king of all engineering
All all those examples you written, its a ME ones who certifies the software & they are fully capable of writing the all those cods and responsible for keeping them safe and controlled & run by people with a little knowledge in STEM
Programming is not a monopoly of CSE/IT/MBA, but it belongs to all, starting from ME/Bsc/EEE/ECE etc etc
No wonder why major companies replacing with people like you[software coder/programmer] with software or Elon Musk fired a lot of them
Show some respect to the God and the people who designed , constructed and maintaining your working ecosystem and keep you & other pgmmer/coder safe in that eco system
Don't forget without software industry, Engineering exists but without engg there is no software

 

[johnj]

As per their official poster that I shared, upgraded Mark1A is 7.1t empty

What is the empty weight of MK1 FOC then ??

 

[Bleh]

What is the empty weight of MK1 FOC then ??

6.5

 

[johnj]

6.5

With all modifications, including new random, refueling probe etc

 

[Bleh]

With all modifications, including new random, refueling probe etc

Let's just wait for info to come out.. there's a bit of confusion in this. @MirageBlue @patriots can help maybe

 

[astransastra]

Show some respect to the God and the people who designed , constructed and maintaining your working ecosystem and keep you & other pgmmer/coder safe in that eco system

I won't bother to respond to other things that don't merit response. But if you observe my posts i have been advocating for salary increase for engineers from other branches commensurate with their counterparts in CSE and suggesting measures to make it happen. According to US wage survey, Electrical and Electronics engineers and Mechanical engineers are not that far behind the Software developers and Coders that you tend to belittle.

May 2023 National Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates

www.bls.gov

I wish and hope the job eco-system in India can also be improved and these engineers get the wages they deserve!

 

[johnj]

I won't bother to respond to other things that don't merit response. But if you observe my posts i have been advocating for salary increase for engineers from other branches commensurate with their counterparts in CSE and suggesting measures to make it happen. According to US wage survey, Electrical and Electronics engineers and Mechanical engineers are not that far behind the Software developers and Coders that you tend to belittle.

May 2023 National Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates

www.bls.gov

I wish and hope the job eco-system in India can also be improved and these engineers get the wages they deserve!

That is what I written in the first post - GoI pays the same salaries when 1$ == 1INR or Indian GDP match US GDP - I know you are considering US & EU in the first place
Only thing you are making is dumb comparisons, plze stop making unwanted comparison
In the case of India, the biggest job provider to Software developers and Coders are US, and they are getting salaries close to US counterpart, at the sometime local companies recurring coders for desi work low salaries, from 50k to 3l pm which is similar to the salaries of gov engineers
I respond to your comment becz it is pure nonsense, my advice, better google before commenting unknown things, by the way I love software fields and it is sad great people in the field making such statements
FYI- all gov engg getting a better salaries and great package if you consider Indian conditions, only less than 0.2% of Indians getting such salaries, when we develop products like US [alien warfare tech] GoI pay similar salaries like US/EU and funny part is - we are talking this in lca mk1a thread, an US developed a better 4.5th gen get two decade ago and ADA/HAL still busy with mk1a
Thanks for the link, Also from the list you can see lawyers, doctors pay scale is very high, & Indian gov giving similar salaries to those and engineers. Software developers and Coders is medium and bottom level in IT/software sector, don't even come close to CSE and they gets bottom level salaries on the other side aero engineering gets top salaries in engineering, and still a bit less than software developers and coders
Read your list from top to bottom & you can see only few engineer gets salaries close to bottom level IT sector & your list proves I'm right in the first place, even pilots make better salaries than engineers
If you compare all, you can see software industry work just opposite to engineering industry, biggest ex- Indian & Chinese economic development. Salaries related to economic thread
If you consider ADA and this thread, currently Chinese can make better hardware and faster, we can develop better software for fighter jet, and better software give huge advantage in modern warfare

 

[Bhaubai]

According to sources in India, in addition to Argentina, another South American country, which operates only one type of fighter and will soon retire them, is seeking 5 to 8 LCA-Tejas fighters. Opportunity for India to position its advanced LCA-Tejas jets as a suitable replacement option.

 

[standard snowball]

which light fighters have an internal SPJ, I know tejas lacks an Internal SPJ but i want to know is the same true for other fighters like gripen C/D, jf 17 block 3, FA 50.

 

[itsme]

 

[brat4]

I have a few questions
1. why were funds released for tejas in 1993 when the desgin was completed in 1989.
2. What delays caused the first flight to be pushed to 2001 when the 1st TD was rolled out in 1995 was it because of change of engine from kaveri to f404 or because of 1998 sanctions, or the GSQR changes of 1997, or technological hurdles faced b y the program.

I am reading about Tejas and its history so i will keep asking more questions, hope you guys don't mind.
Also please recommend me some books and other refrence materials for learning more about Tejas

for 1: "why were funds released for tejas in 1993 when the design was completed in 1989" - India had a balance of payment crisis in 1991 - a cash cruch during that period
for 2: TD was rolled out in 1995, flight was 2001 - because of the nuclear tests conducted in 1998 - the support from US (the engines were from US) were frozen. there is a bit more nuance to both answers, but in broad strokes, thats the reason.

 

[MirageBlue]

With all modifications, including new random, refueling probe etc

Tejas Mk1 FOC and Mk1A shouldn't have very different empty weights. And that is slightly higher than 6700 kgs empty AFAIK.

 

[MiG-29SMT]