LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[ObiWanKenobi]

G-Ratings are typically conservative and mostly aimed at prolonging the life of an aircraft. Sometimes OEM's might specify airframe life depending on the in service G-rating during peacetime and wartime situations. Peacetime limits can be lower, and thus specify the highest airframe hours while wartime ratings will be dependent on how much the structure has been loaded and frequent inspections for structural damage which will cause a corresponding reduction in service life. Eg: Lets say a particular aircraft has a airframe ultimate load factor of +11/-4. To prevent any aircraft exceeding that, I design a FCS with a g-limiter that limits inputs exceeding anything +9/-3 so that the airframe remains within limits. Now I build a few test frames that repeatedly loads the structure for different load factors to determine service life. Once I've done that, I can publish it in the manuals for the same and the aircraft certified as such, so that the peeps in the field know what they must do if an aircraft ever does exceed the prescribed limits.

You are largely correct, it's more of an issue of prescription rather than structural design. F-15s and F-16s were rated for 7G when they entered service - those same airframes rated for 9 now.

However, FCS doesn't usually limit G loads - that would be undesirable. They could limit AoA at higher loads but fighter pilots always have the ability to exceed. A USAF F-15 pilot once exceeded 11G to prevent himself from running into the ground - probably resulted in injury, and the aircraft never flew again - but he lived (my source for this story is a podcast I listen to about actual fighter pilots).

Things may be different for Tejas who knows.

 

[Blademaster]

Pulling more than 10 Gs will result in serious damage to your heart. It may lead to a rupture in your aorta.

 

[vishnugupt]

Pulling more than 10 Gs will result in serious damage to your heart. It may lead to a rupture in your aorta.

Sir, that is accident or sudden deacceleration which causes Aorta injury not high G.

High G cause blood pooling in vain which causes heart failure.

 

[swapcv]

However, FCS doesn't usually limit G loads - that would be undesirable. They could limit AoA at higher loads but fighter pilots always have the ability to exceed. A USAF F-15 pilot once exceeded 11G to prevent himself from running into the ground - probably resulted in injury, and the aircraft never flew again - but he lived (my source for this story is a podcast I listen to about actual fighter pilots).

Things may be different for Tejas who knows.

Regarding exceeding the G-Limits, yes its possible but thats usually by activating a switch on the stick which removes all flight envelope protections so that the pilot has full control. But the moment this switch returns to normal position, the FCS restores all flight envelope protections. Soviets had a rudimentary AoA limiter in case of the Mig-29 while the more advanced Su-27 had Direct Control Mode that allowed it to exceed your typical AoA limits (Pugachev's Cobra is performed in this mode). F/A-18 has a paddle switch on the stick (from F/A-18C Lot 20 NATOPS), and I assume the F-16 and F-15 have one too for the same. So one can say FCS does limit g's in normal mode or normal law in technical parlance, but in direct law, you can exceed them as well.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Sir, that is accident or sudden deacceleration which causes Aorta injury not high G.

High G cause blood pooling in vain which causes heart failure.

Correct. Two things are bad about high G - One for pilot - Loss of blood from brain. Other for machine- high stress which may cause failure in components and worst-case simply rip the wings off .

 

[Blademaster]

Sir, that is accident or sudden deacceleration which causes Aorta injury not high G.

High G cause blood pooling in vain which causes heart failure.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459337/

According to the link rapid deceleration can cause aorta rupture. That can happen with high Gs manuevers. As you suddenly go to 9 Gs and then go to 1 G the next, that is extreme or rapid deceleration.

 

[vishnugupt]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK459337/

According to the link rapid deceleration can cause aorta rupture. That can happen with high Gs manuevers. As you suddenly go to 9 Gs and then go to 1 G the next, that is extreme or rapid deceleration.

Technically you are right but here, sudden means within milliseconds it can’t be achieved during flight until you ram into an object . Practically it take seconds to go from 1g to 9g or vise versa so pooling is more common.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Lastly is india serious about pissing the Brits off over this subject? I

What is this cuckrey?
Did not expect this from you.
Perhaps living in Britons has made a favorable opinion of them in your head.
We will sell the weapon if it's a good deal.

They want us to be considerate than not a penny should flow into Pakistan only than we can return the favour.

 

[Suryavanshi]

It is our bad luck that we lagged behind in terms of manufacturing and R&D so much that we have to depend upon Briton for Jet engine and Ejection system.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Kaveri was and still is a great endeavor, the project should not be abandoned after coming to this stage.
This engine should be the bedrock or our Engine program.

It is cheaper to import Martin baker system but if we are looking to become a defence giant than our own subsystem is a must, collaborate with Rus to make our ejection system.

 

[rohit b3]

Question : I understand Tejas mk1A will have internal RWR and pod based Jammer. But it wont have MAWR? If not, whats the alternative to understand that a missile has been launched at you?

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Question : I understand Tejas mk1A will have internal RWR and pod based Jammer. But it wont have MAWR? If not, whats the alternative to understand that a missile has been launched at you?

It has IG, why will it not?

It would be a travesty if it doesnt have, aircraft would be half blind in a fight

Edit: OK, checked - It has pod based maws that can be equipped , manufactured by DARE

Tejas MK2 will have integrated MAWS.

 

[rohit b3]

It has IG, why will it not?

It would be a travesty if it doesnt have, aircraft would be half blind in a fight

Edit: OK, checked - It has pod based maws that can be equipped , manufactured by DARE

Tejas MK2 will have integrated MAWS.

Any link talking about the pod based MAWS? Cant get any details of DARE MAWS anywhere...

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Any link talking about the pod based MAWS? Cant get any details of DARE MAWS anywhere...

 

[Bleh]

...Ejection system.

Also under works.

But it wont have MAWR? If not, whats the alternative to understand that a missile has been launched at you?

Answer to this depends on your level of understanding of how missile approach system works. A proper RWR system is adequate for providing warning against anything that is radar guided against you, unless it's passive & homing into your radar, but presently technology does not permit such A2A systems against fast fighters... maybe someday.
However there is no way to understand if a heatseeker is being launched at 40km away. Its too far for MAWS radar to identify such small incoming object. On the other hand if it is closer to 5 km then you do not have enough reaction time.

That is why NAWS is the last upgrade because it is very costly and the amount of gain from it is very less. To keep LCA cheap maybe we will use a podded DARE-made MAWS per every 4 jets, but not right now.

 

[WolfPack86]

INDIA'S FIRST 'PRODUCTION' TEJAS MK-1A MADE A SECRET MAIDEN FLIGHT: REPORT
NEW DELHI — Indian authorities have announced that the first prototype of the TEJAS MK-1A, which is actually the planned mass-production version of the TEJAS and the basis for all others, has secretly made its maiden flight. The Indian Ministry of Defence reported that Hindustan Aeronautics Limited [HAL] conducted the test flight in an area near their production facility reports an international internet defence platform.


HAL first upgraded the aircraft with serial production number SP-25 to MK-1A level which was at the level of TEJAS MK-1. The SP-25 will act as a test platform for the entire production line of the MK-1A version and will undergo certification tests over the next 30 months.

After completion of tests, deliveries of the TEJAS MK-1A will begin from March 2024. The delivery of 83 aircraft ordered for the Indian Air Force is scheduled to be completed in 2029.

TEJAS MK-1A is the best-developed version of TEJAS MK-1 which reached full operational capability [FOC] in 2020. MK-1A is equipped with Israeli Elta EL/M-2052 AESA radar or Indian Uttam AESA radar, a self-defence system, radar receiver warning, and an external muting unit. The MK-1A will have a lower weight compared to the MK-1. One of the most important changes made compared to the MK-1 is that the Indian-made Astra 1 and Astra-2 Beyond Visual Range Air-Air Missiles [AAM] will be used in the MK-1A. Currently, only MK-1 FOCs can fire Derby Oversight Air-Air Missiles.

The Export Potential of TEJAS

India bought single-engine TEJAS fighter jets totalling $4,5B

India takes major steps in exporting TEJAS aircraft. India’s largest export customer is expected to be Egypt. According to Indian sources, India has recently submitted a proposal to Egypt to open a mass production facility for Dhruv and LCH helicopters in Egypt, along with TEJAS MK-1A aircraft.

In line with this offer, the Egyptian authorities are expected to visit HAL’s facilities soon. Egyptian authorities announced plans to purchase 70 TEJAS MK-1A aircraft at the 2021 Dubai Air Show.

The TEJAS is also competing with the TAI-developed HURJET [Turkey] in the Malaysian LIFT/LCA tender. India, which is offering TEJAS MK-1A aircraft to Malaysia, allows Malaysia only “depot-level support”. However, Malaysia wants the 18 light attack aircraft to be manufactured with at least 30% Malaysian parts.

India's First 'Production' TEJAS MK-1A Made A Secret Maiden Flight: Report

TEJAS SP-25 rolling out from the hanger before its maiden test flight NEW DELHI — Indian authorities have announced that the first prototyp...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

 

[MonaLazy]

What about SP-25? Surely that can't be collected anytime soon? Otherwise how will they certify Mk1A over next 30 months?

 

[Vamsi]

Its a hit job by him

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Its a hit job by him

Lets see what it can do.
1. Can carry BVR and CCM missiles - Basically do air to air fight
2. Carry Smart Bombs - Can do Ground missions
3. Have an AESA Radar - Latest radar tech.
4. Have an IFR probe - Basically fly longer in air by simply refueling


Even I know it can do this much. All this Sepoys needs to be terminated.