LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Spitfire9]

Sell 3 squadrons of the LCA Mk2 with all the bells and whistles to Vietnam and watch the Chinese burn. I had written a long ass post somewhere on this forum where I mentioned that we are approaching US-Russia-China level as a country where we make all our platforms, munitions, and electronics at home. This will allow us to sell packages of stuff. A sample package for a small Air Force can be:
1> 3 MWF squadrons.
2> Weapons as per customer choice.
3> 4 Netra AEW.
4> Military sat package (comms, observation, ELINT, etc as per customer choice)
5> QRSam, Akash Sam, and XR-Sam based layered AD system along with all associated radars, software, and networking equipment.
6> Drones in the form of Rustom-2 and Rustom-1 for multiple roles.

Purchase will of course be in phases, but point is everything is made in house. We just need our own wide body and narrow body jets for the aew, awacs, tankers, MPA, and other such roles.

Interesting suggestion to market an Indian aerial defence solution.

Creating a widebody is a long and expensive process. Why not base things off something non-American like A330 or A350? Same for narrow body - there's Airbus, Embraer, Sukhoi to choose from.

I agree that Vietnam would be a prime target for Mk2. Could Vietnam wait until the late 2020's to get it, though?

 

[Super Flanker]

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Ek hi sentence mai kaam chala leta bhaai
Itna Stretchhhh karne ki kya zarurat

Sorry Bhai... lekin aise bade bade , paragraphs likhne ki Adath hogaye hai Na mujhe Isleye.. don't mind.

 

[Roland55]

I highly doubt that Tejas can be Exported to Argentina, Tejas currently uses many Crucial components of British orgin such as Radome , Ejection seat ,Refuelling Probe etc. UK doesn't have good relationship with Argentina and UK has imposed an Armes Embargo in Argentina, and hence we can't Export tejas to Argentina
because currently uses many Crucial components of British orgin such as Radome , Ejection seat , Refuelling Probe etc. If we try to replace and put a new ejection seat ,it will take time to test it ,and Integrate it , this aplies to other systems in tejas of British orgin. So I don't think so it is economically feasible to Export it to Argentina. Also we might Spoil our relationship with UK in some ways.

A couple of days ago news transcended about HAL offering Mk.1A with all british components changed, idk if the sale of 12 aircraft could be much of a worry for the Uk. I think i already talked about the seat quite a few times explaining that the Mk.16 is currently serving with the FAA, so idk if MB is really a problem here.

Nonetheless it speaks very well from HAL, whos offering solutions from the start.
EDIT: Sure, KAI did the same for the FA-50, but they lacked the industrial capability to undergo the changes.

 

[Super Flanker]

A couple of days ago news transcended about HAL offering Mk.1A with all british components changed, idk if the sale of 12 aircraft could be much of a worry for the Uk. I think i already talked about the seat quite a few times explaining that the Mk.16 is currently serving with the FAA, so idk if MB is really a problem here.

Nonetheless it speaks very well from HAL, whos offering solutions from the start.
EDIT: Sure, KAI did the same for the FA-50, but they lacked the industrial capability to undergo the changes.

Only Time will tell what will happen, in my opinion, Argentina will most probably go for Either JF 17 or Tejas, both are good planes for their Respective category. But Tejas has an edge because of its superior tech and some other stuff. Well Argentina knows what it is doing. I don't know what will UK do here to be honest. Maybe they might object to the sale of Tejas or maybe not ,I am not sure , because I don't think so 12 Tejas or JF 17 will be much of a worry for UK. Let's hope for the best. This might be a chance where Tejas might see it's very first export order. Chances are more higher in The Malaysian Tender to be honest.

And yes ,HAL is doing very well compared to the past,HAL is submitting it's bids is various tenders and pitching it's products globally.
I see this as a very good thing from HAL's side. Best wishes to HAL.

 

[MonaLazy]

what will UK do

Please let the UK worry about what they will do. For us, we should do to them what they do to us when debating Kashmir in their parliament or holding Khalistani referendum in London- i.e. not give a shit!

 

[JBH22]

Please let the UK worry about what they will do. For us, we should do to them what they do to us when debating Kashmir in their parliament or holding Khalistani referendum in London- i.e. not give a shit!

Khalistanis ******s who are unable to defend themselves in west, believe they can create a land lock state and cohabit peacefully with Pakistan. Canada Canada chilate hain yeh log, wahan pe turban, kirpaan be debate hain. The moment their ass will be spanked, they will come crying here.
With polarisation of societies in the west it is a matter of time, before white nationalism is galvanised. Then they will realise how India is good.

Quebec hasn't been able to move on in the seven years since it exploded in anger when Supreme Court Justice Louise Charron, a franco-Ontarian, wrote a ringing endorsement of Mr. Multani's rights. Ninety-four per cent of French-speaking Quebeckers and 79 per cent of non-French speaking Quebeckers were opposed.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-kirpan-1.4543176

British Sikh girls being targeted by Pakistani-origin grooming gangs for sexual abuse and exploitation over the years have not received full attention of authorities due to political correctness, claims a new report released on Monday.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/worl...-sikh-girls/story-h4CrxQnhPy5sVphAW1HsrM.html

 

[Spitfire9]

Don't want to throw a spanner in Mk1A's works but why choose an aircraft

- that has not yet flown or been tested
- where the version for your country will be non-standard (UK parts replaced)
- where deliveries of the type's predecessor were subject to serious delay
- where the quality of support is unknown

if MiG-35 does not have these concerns (except quality of support?)

 

[JBH22]

Don't want to throw a spanner in Mk1A's works but why choose an aircraft

- that has not yet flown or been tested
- where the version for your country will be non-standard (UK parts replaced)
- where deliveries of the type's predecessor were subject to serious delay
- where the quality of support is unknown

if MiG-35 does not have these concerns (except quality of support?)

It is a dream that we keep spinning, unless the platform is adopted and used in combat no one will believe the product. Trial by fire is the only way to establish Tejas reputation. No fight= No Sales.
MIG 35 gives decent performance/cost value.

 

[abingdonboy]

Don't want to throw a spanner in Mk1A's works but why choose an aircraft

- that has not yet flown or been tested
- where the version for your country will be non-standard (UK parts replaced)
- where deliveries of the type's predecessor were subject to serious delay
- where the quality of support is unknown

if MiG-35 does not have these concerns (except quality of support?)

1) The Mk1A is the Mk1 with some different LRUs and customer nominated equipment, that's not a huge enough change to be concerned about.Look at the IAF's Rafale experience- the ISE (Indian specific equipment) items were tested on the 36th airframe and the 35 before it were delivered to the IAF without them, only in India will they be retrofitted. So it's a perfectly acceptable approach if both sides understand.

2) Customer specific models happen all the time for aerospace products

3) What delays? The type hasn't even seen serious series production until this year. HAL's track record with other types speaks for itself, they'll deliver on time no problems.

4) Well HAL offers PBLs with its products now so if they sign up for that then they shouldn't have to worry to much about this aspect, the liability is on HAL entirely.


That said I don't think the Argentina bid is even remotely plausible for the LCA, it's even less likely than the LCA for RMAF which is itself already highly unlikely.

 

[abingdonboy]

It is a dream that we keep spinning, unless the platform is adopted and used in combat no one will believe the product. Trial by fire is the only way to establish Tejas reputation. No fight= No Sales.
MIG 35 gives decent performance/cost value.

F-35 was ordered by plenty of customers without combat experience. This is a fanboy misnomer which gets amplified for various reasons, very very few nations actually see combat so the number of platforms that are combat tested is minuscule compared to what is developed and enters service.


The MiG-35 isn't even adopted by its host nation, isn't that a bigger red flag?

 

[JBH22]

F-35 was ordered by plenty of customers without combat experience. This is a fanboy misnomer which gets amplified for various reasons, very very few nations actually see combat so the number of platforms that are combat tested is minuscule compared to what is developed and enters service.

The MiG-35 isn't even adopted by its host nation, isn't that a bigger red flag?

Both Russia and USA are established players with clout. I find it hard for HAL to compete on equal footing with UAC or Lockheed martin, let's be realist.
MIG -35 is a derivative of MIG 29 which Russians were hoping to shove down our throat to make the production line viable. basically we funded their T-90, Su 30, MIG 29K factory with our order book.

Uncle Sam F-35 despite selling an overhyped and exorbitantly expensive plane has been able to shove it down its NATO allies. F-35 is the iphone of the aviation industry.

 

[abingdonboy]

Both Russia and USA are established players with clout. I find it hard for HAL to compete on equal footing with UAC or Lockheed martin, let's be realist.
MIG -35 is a derivative of MIG 29 which Russians were hoping to shove down our throat to make the production line viable. basically we funded their T-90, Su 30, MIG 29K factory with our order book.

Uncle Sam F-35 despite selling an overhyped and exorbitantly expensive plane has been able to shove it down its NATO allies. F-35 is the iphone of the aviation industry.

You are conflating things, I never said HAL had the clout of UAC or LM but 'combat proven' or whatever tag isn't that relevant.

 

[JBH22]

You are conflating things, I never said HAL had the clout of UAC or LM but 'combat proven' or whatever tag isn't that relevant.

The past records of UAC and LM, is used as a proxy for the 'combat proven' tag. Both USAF and RuAF have been using their planes in middle east. You have seen the effectiveness of Russian campaign in Syria. This is something India does not have. Last time we did something it was in Kargil that too 21 years ago.

 

[abingdonboy]

The past records of UAC and LM, is used as a proxy for the 'combat proven' tag. Both USAF and RuAF have been using their planes in middle east. You have seen the effectiveness of Russian campaign in Syria. This is something India does not have. Last time we did something it was in Kargil that too 21 years ago.

Well most nations that are looking to buy the LCA (reportedly) are not exactly combat experienced themselves so I don't think they'll be that focused on this issue, they are more likely interested in are performance specs and how much it costs to buy and maintain.


That said if Modi wants to start a war with the Pakis to show off some Indian equipment I won't object. 'Wiped out the PAF in 24 hours' would be a good tagline to put on the LCA brochures

 

[Trololo]

Interesting suggestion to market an Indian aerial defence solution.

Creating a widebody is a long and expensive process. Why not base things off something non-American like A330 or A350? Same for narrow body - there's Airbus, Embraer, Sukhoi to choose from.

I agree that Vietnam would be a prime target for Mk2. Could Vietnam wait until the late 2020's to get it, though?

A wide body and narrow body will solve many problems but for now we are dependent on foreign vendors for the platform. I wouldn't be surprised if Vietnam gets the Gripen-E. It also depends on their relations with China. If things nosedive quickly we can kiss LCA prospects goodbye. Else Vietnam can be convinced to buy the LCA Mk2. A lot also depends on how the Su 75 comes up. If by the end of the decade the Su 75 is ready for squadron service then LCA Mk2 prospects might take a strong hit.

 

[Trololo]

Both Russia and USA are established players with clout. I find it hard for HAL to compete on equal footing with UAC or Lockheed martin, let's be realist.
MIG -35 is a derivative of MIG 29 which Russians were hoping to shove down our throat to make the production line viable. basically we funded their T-90, Su 30, MIG 29K factory with our order book.

Uncle Sam F-35 despite selling an overhyped and exorbitantly expensive plane has been able to shove it down its NATO allies. F-35 is the iphone of the aviation industry.

They were able to do so with the F35 because no European manufacturer had an equivalent program. Same reason why you see Typhoons in European service but not F15s. Because Europeans have an equivalent. They didn't have an F16 class of jet, hence F16 found a market in Europe. But yes HAL will have a hard time competing against UAC or LM unless it is backed by the full might of the Indian government.

 

[Trololo]

Only Time will tell what will happen, in my opinion, Argentina will most probably go for Either JF 17 or Tejas, both are good planes for their Respective category. But Tejas has an edge because of its superior tech and some other stuff. Well Argentina knows what it is doing. I don't know what will UK do here to be honest. Maybe they might object to the sale of Tejas or maybe not ,I am not sure , because I don't think so 12 Tejas or JF 17 will be much of a worry for UK. Let's hope for the best. This might be a chance where Tejas might see it's very first export order. Chances are more higher in The Malaysian Tender to be honest.

And yes ,HAL is doing very well compared to the past,HAL is submitting it's bids is various tenders and pitching it's products globally.
I see this as a very good thing from HAL's side. Best wishes to HAL.

Argentina will not buy the LCA. Probably some version of the MiG 29.

 

[Trololo]

This will require a mindset change in the Indian leadership channels. India needs a dedicated export agency like Russia and France has, today it's too ad hoc and the people in MoD that control these things are civil servants with no interest in export promotion.


The defence minister of India should consider his job as being a salesman for Indian defence products


Having the products to offer is not enough, this sector in particular is very ruthless and only the nimble and govt backed agencies prevail, India isn't dynamic enough to get the ball moving, the entire might of the Indian govt should be placed into each and every contract- create innovative financing proposals, package deals etc.

Correct. We also need a DGA type central procurement agency along with an export agency. Along with a thorough ITAR audit of our domestic platforms.

 

[Roland55]

Argentina will not buy the LCA. Probably some version of the MiG 29.

In a recent interview with the MoD (yesterday), Taiana mentioned that there are 3 main things to look for...Maintenance cost, Financing and the military/Technic aspect of the planes. I really don't know whether if Tejas is going to be chosen or not, but they plan to have the choice done by the early-mid 2022.

Well, like all things...it takes time, i don't know if the Tejas (or any other option) will get the deal, as it could get kicked again for 2023 onwards. Still a great effort done by HAL to appeal to a new market.

EDIT: im more curious about the Malaysian Deal...and then maybe the Egyptian one.

 

[Super Flanker]

Argentina will not buy the LCA. Probably some version of the MiG 29.

Yeah, you are right, or They could go for the MIG 35 instead to fullfil their needs for a fighter Because Russia has offered them MIG 35.