LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[abingdonboy]

Why would Malaysia (or anyone else) be interested in Mk1? It is about to be superceded by Mk1A.

And about Israeli content, isn't that due to be replaced with Indian?

Because the RMAF has different requirements to the IAF, if they want a cheap and cheerful LIFT they might now want all of the bells and whistles on the Mk1A that only drives up cost for them.

 

[IndianHawk]

Because the RMAF has different requirements to the IAF, if they want a cheap and cheerful LIFT they might now want all of the bells and whistles on the Mk1A that only drives up cost for them.

They want a trainer which can fight too since their air force is small and russian jets are in maintenance most of the time. Hence lca is in lead.

 

[abingdonboy]

They want a trainer which can fight too since their air force is small and russian jets are in maintenance most of the time. Hence lca is in lead.

Yes but what has HAL offered them to meet that need? 2 seat Mk.1? 2 seat Mk1A (which actually doesn't exist but can be made easily)? their LIFT design (SPORT) or something else (TejEX)?

 

[IndianHawk]

Yes but what has HAL offered them to meet that need? 2 seat Mk.1? 2 seat Mk1A (which actually doesn't exist but can be made easily)? their LIFT design (SPORT) or something else (TejEX)?

Don't know for sure. It will be 2 seater because it needs to be trainer also. Most probably mk1a since with uttam aesa it will be the most potent jet out of all competitions and without Israeli radar. (Fa50 has Israeli radar).

This would be first aesa jet for malasiya.

 

[Aditya Ballal]

I guess, it could be...the wheels (lets say Dunlop), joints, some small valves, things like that?

If its a small number, i hope the price won't end above the 50M U$ (thats roughly what the JF-17 B3 costs). I assume the Malaysian deal had a similar treatment with Israeli components?

Wheels are Indian. MRF

https://www.drdo.gov.in/sites/default/files/technology-focus-documrnt/TF_April_2016_WEB.pdf

Good read

 

[Haldilal]

Don't know for sure. It will be 2 seater because it needs to be trainer also. Most probably mk1a since with uttam aesa it will be the most potent jet out of all competitions and without Israeli radar. (Fa50 has Israeli radar).

This would be first aesa jet for malasiya.

Ya'll Nibbiars don't count the eggs now. And never under estimate the financial might of the ROK. Will even win this tender just on the financial mights.

 

[IndianHawk]

Ya'll Nibbiars don't count the eggs now. And never under estimate the financial might of the ROK. Will even win this tender just on the financial mights.

Malaysia wants to pay in palm oil. Soko can't hold a candle to us in palm oil consumption.

India could still loose it but because of geopolitics not finances.

 

[Haldilal]

Malaysia wants to pay in palm oil. Soko can't hold a candle to us in palm oil consumption.

India could still loose it but because of geopolitics not finances.

Ya'll Nibbiars ROK palm oil consumption can't be under estimated. They may take a smaller amount of palm oil than us as the rate of cooking oil there is much higher.

 

[abingdonboy]

Don't know for sure. It will be 2 seater because it needs to be trainer also. Most probably mk1a since with uttam aesa it will be the most potent jet out of all competitions and without Israeli radar. (Fa50 has Israeli radar).

This would be first aesa jet for malasiya.

Again, it's about what the RMAF want.


We haven't got the tender documents so can't say what their specific requirements are. If they follow a similar process to India aka the L1 process then it doesn't matter how over spec'd the LCA is compared to the competition it won't win out because others are cheaper and meet their requirements.


Only way LCA is winning is if RMAF want an AESAR with supersonic speeds, full spectrum capabilities etc but that doesn't seem like it's what they want. Instead a LIFT with some fighting capabilities seems to favour the actual LIFTs in the race, in that case I think the T-50 is the clear favourite


Like I said I'd like to know what package HAL has offered to meet RMAF's requirements.

 

[IndianHawk]

Again, it's about what the RMAF want.


We haven't got the tender documents so can't say what their specific requirements are. If they follow a similar process to India aka the L1 process then it doesn't matter how over spec'd the LCA is compared to the competition it won't win out because others are cheaper and meet their requirements.


Only way LCA is winning is if RMAF want an AESAR with supersonic speeds, full spectrum capabilities etc but that doesn't seem like it's what they want. Instead a LIFT with some fighting capabilities seems to favour the actual LIFTs in the race, in that case I think the T-50 is the clear favourite


Like I said I'd like to know what package HAL has offered to meet RMAF's requirements.

How can they insist on L1 when they are insisting on payment in plam oil partially. That changes financial calculation for seller. Anyway we shall find out soon enough.

 

[abingdonboy]

How can they insist on L1 when they are insisting on payment in plam oil partially. That changes financial calculation for seller. Anyway we shall find out soon enough.

I think you are indulging in confirmation bias, LCA being the winner and working back from there. Personally I don't see it when it's going up against dedicated LIFTs

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars ROK palm oil consumption can't be under estimated. They may take a smaller amount of palm oil than us as the rate of cooking oil there is much higher.

Ya'll Nibbiars Corrections meant by their FA 50s cost is much lower than us. Less capable but it's a Figher Trainer used by many nations and proven supplies track records.

 

[Tshering22]

Ya'll Nibbiars ROK palm oil consumption can't be under estimated. They may take a smaller amount of palm oil than us as the rate of cooking oil there is much higher.

They hardly use any oil compared to Indian cooking. Most of the stuff that they have is boiled, steamed, etc. with meats being fried. The following is their consumption:

The only place where ROK could have an advantage is the fact that they already have A-50 jets in ASEAN air forces namely in the Philippines, Indonesia, Singapore and Thailand. Given the precedence, they could go for it. Also since A-50 is a Lockheed Martin project, replacing Israeli AESA with American ones would not be a problem for them.

HAL may be a good supplier but there is a very strong anti-India lobby within Malaysian politics - they are the Islamist Bumiputera upholders who even hate Malaysians of Indian origin. Given the recent history with Mahathir's administration, they could pressure the government into rejecting us.

 

[IndianHawk]

I think you are indulging in confirmation bias, LCA being the winner and working back from there. Personally I don't see it when it's going up against dedicated LIFTs

No I'm aware lca might very well loose. But all information suggests that Malaysia wants fighter that can train too.

Only large airforces have the luxury of dedicated lifts . Small airforces want every jet to fight if need be. And Malaysian situation is more dire as their old mig29 and su30 have very poor availablity rate.

Lca can still lose out due to bargain between china- malasiya , malasiya - Korea.

 

[IndianHawk]

They hardly use any oil compared to Indian cooking. Most of the stuff that they have is boiled, steamed, etc. with meats being fried. The following is their consumption:

View attachment 120548

The only place where ROK could have an advantage is the fact that they already have A-50 jets in ASEAN air forces namely in the Philippines, Indonesia, Singapore and Thailand. Given the precedence, they could go for it. Also since A-50 is a Lockheed Martin project, replacing Israeli AESA with American ones would not be a problem for them.

HAL may be a good supplier but there is a very strong anti-India lobby within Malaysian politics - they are the Islamist Bumiputera upholders who even hate Malaysians of Indian origin. Given the recent history with Mahathir's administration, they could pressure the government into rejecting us.

There is another angle to it . Malaysia needs to hedge against china in South China sea.

It might need india in the fold. Philippines is also buying bramhos . ASEAN as a whole is hedging against china now.

 

[Haldilal]

They hardly use any oil compared to Indian cooking. Most of the stuff that they have is boiled, steamed, etc. with meats being fried. The following is their consumption:

View attachment 120548

The only place where ROK could have an advantage is the fact that they already have A-50 jets in ASEAN air forces namely in the Philippines, Indonesia, Singapore and Thailand. Given the precedence, they could go for it. Also since A-50 is a Lockheed Martin project, replacing Israeli AESA with American ones would not be a problem for them.

HAL may be a good supplier but there is a very strong anti-India lobby within Malaysian politics - they are the Islamist Bumiputera upholders who even hate Malaysians of Indian origin. Given the recent history with Mahathir's administration, they could pressure the government into rejecting us.

Ya'll Nibbiars The Malaysians are not going to supply the Palm Oil in a year's but in Installments over a period of time.

 

[IndianHawk]

Ya'll Nibbiars The Malaysians are not going to supply the Palm Oil in a year's but in Installments over a period of time.

Fine buy us . We buy it in billions anyway. If they don't chose lca they might loose some of that export to Indonesia.

 

[IndianHawk]

Ya'll Nibbiars Indonesia?.

Yup last time we bought more plam oil from Indonesia to teach malasiya a lesson when mahathir spoke about kashmir.

 

[Tshering22]

There is another angle to it . Malaysia needs to hedge against china in South China sea.

It might need india in the fold. Philippines is also buying bramhos . ASEAN as a whole is hedging against china now.

It is much more complicated than that. I will discuss the geopolitics on the India-Malaysia thread. Let's stick to technical points here in Tejas thread.

 

[Haldilal]

Ya'll Nibbiars The Malaysian are choosey. The procure what they consider best even in small quantities from Mig 29's to BAE Hawks and from Su 30 MKK's to F 18's.