LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[Whitecollar]

Utna easy nahin hai yaar.. Just look how much struggle Rafale had to do to secure 1st orders.

J-10 to abhi tak chus raha hy.

J-10 has it's share of dangers involved due to complete reliance on AL41F engines. The later J-10C's indigenous Choynese engines can hardly match MTBO and TTL of Saturn ones.
Hence no Country will be willing to buy them...except Pakistan.

 

[Tang]

J-10 has it's share of dangers involved due to complete reliance on AL41F engines. The later J-10C's indigenous Choynese engines can hardly match MTBO and TTL of Saturn ones.
Hence no Country will be willing to buy them...except Pakistan.

Actually nobody buys chinese aircrafts expect pakistan

 

[Lonewolf]

Actually nobody buys chinese aircrafts expect pakistan

Myanmar , Nigeria , and some few other arr interested in jf 17 as it is dirt cheap and just better than helicopter so good for them , but in advanced category ,therr is no one

 

[Srinivas_K]

Myanmar , Nigeria , and some few other arr interested in jf 17 as it is dirt cheap and just better than helicopter so good for them , but in advanced category ,therr is no one

Nigeria's case is different. Nigeria might have received a grant in the form of JF17.

 

[abingdonboy]

@abingdonboy, @ajaraja Chola

I was not suggesting that HAL build white tails, aircraft without orders.

From what I have read, HAL is an unusual entity. It seems to me that it is essentially a builder and integrator (for Tejas) content to live off orders given to it by GOI. It does not appear to have much interest in marketing or selling, in penetrating the world market with a marketable product. It seems happy just to supply orders received from GOI. As long as the Indian drive for export orders for fighter jets is led by this company, I doubt that all potential, gettable orders will be got.

India has thrown perhaps $2 billion at the Tejas project. I don't how big the world market is for light supersonic fighters up to 2030 but I would not be surprised if it were 100+ (places like Vietnam, South American countries will need new kit). I see no reason why India should not capitalise on its investment in Tejas and try to win some non-captive customers. To me MWF has better prospects but getting export sales + support up and running and debugged with some Mk1A orders would be wise.

Her I am, a foreigner, and I seem to be about the only person on the site exhorting India to make the most of its investment in fast jet technology. Mostly I read a lot of reasons why that is too risky, can't be done. Anyone able to suggest how it can be done without taking any risks?

By the way, I am aware that late government payment is very disruptive, especially if the government is your main customer. I once had a business I closed down because the UK PSU I dealt with a lot was so late in making payments, I ended up in a position where I would not be able to pay my suppliers if I carried on buying. So I have some sympathy for HAL.

I have long been advocating for HAL (and any Indian company that can make the leap) to de-risk their investments by exploring the export market as the Indian market is far too fickle and difficult at times- this is how all successful fighter projects have approached the market.

the Indian example of MKU highlights this Further. They basically existed and grew purely thanks to the export market, that put them in a position to bag mega contracts from the Indian MoD when they eventually got around to making the decision.

I believe HAL is constrained in the sense that all defence exports in India have to be cleared at a high level within the Indian govt. I believe it was only relatively recently that the LCA was even placed on a list that allowed HAL to market it abroad that said India ( and HAL) just isn’t set up to attack the export market and go up against the big boys. For that you need geopolitical weight and also a concerted top-down executive led effort. Whenever India makes such offers it is purely made on a commercial basis and India has entirely failed to use its geopolitical weight to benefit its arms industry.

 

[abingdonboy]

Iaf doesn't have hangers to fit in 4 more tejas?? Do we have a list of hangers in airforce bases??

Who said it was an issue of hanger space?

there’s a long list of physical and human capital that needs to be in place before sending such complex machines down there.

remember Sulur is effectively a greenfield base as far as fighters are concerned and is being built up in parallel to LCA deliveries. Go on GE and see how many under construction buildings are still around at the base.

 

[Annaa]

 

[Annaa]

 

[Tang]

Actually nobody buys chinese aircrafts expect pakistan

*Except
Typo

 

[Tang]

Myanmar , Nigeria , and some few other arr interested in jf 17 as it is dirt cheap and just better than helicopter so good for them , but in advanced category ,therr is no one

Myanmar & Nigeria yes, because nobody would sell them anything.

 

[Spitfire9]

remember Sulur is effectively a greenfield base as far as fighters are concerned and is being built up in parallel to LCA deliveries.

Obviously not too parallel: LCA deliveries are not taking place because IAF does not have the infrastructure to receive them (allegedly). I don't blame IAF entirely, if that is true. Since Tejas has a history of almost constant delays of unknown duration, IAF would have spent a lot over the years on infrastructure that would not be used for some time after completion if it had completed works on schedule.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Utna easy nahin hai yaar.. Just look how much struggle Rafale had to do to secure 1st orders.

J-10 to abhi tak chus raha hy.

I know buddy, that’s why I said that his words have no value, it’s just to hype things up.

 

[abingdonboy]

Obviously not too parallel: LCA deliveries are not taking place because IAF does not have the infrastructure to receive them (allegedly). I don't blame IAF entirely, if that is true. Since Tejas has a history of almost constant delays of unknown duration, IAF would have spent a lot over the years on infrastructure that would not be used for some time after completion if it had completed works on schedule.

This is the issue- the IAF didn’t put itself in a position to accept them.

cannot deny that the IOC+FOC deliveries have just been a total mess but given this is the first crack at series production for the LCA and COVID on top of that I hardly blame them- there’s a lot all parties can and will learn from this experience.


with the 83 MK1A order the situation will be very different and I expect both parties to bring their A games given the sums involved now (the best part of $10bn USD).

With IOC+FOC birds the IAF took quite an ad-hoc approach and often decisions for basing and personnel were made quite late in the day. Not so for the MK1As which I suspect will have their details being sorted out as we speak such is the scale of the commitment and also assured deadlines.

remember the IAF have in the past made HAL warehouse ALHs for a short while for similar reasons (their units were not in a position to accept delivery)

 

[lcafanboy]

 

[Dark Sorrow]

I was under impression we where upgrading to 32-/64-bit RISC-V based processor i.e. Shakti or Vega series by C-DAC.

Though e5500 PowerPC core is also quite good.

 

[Bleh]

Ok, so they're may be further rollouts of more Tejas in August... but nothing on when delivery to IAF may resume.

 

[Ghost hale]

Ok, so they're may be further rollouts of more Tejas in August... but nothing on when delivery to IAF may resume.

 

[Trololo]

I was under impression we where upgrading to 32-/64-bit RISC-V based processor i.e. Shakti or Vega series by C-DAC.

Though e5500 PowerPC core is also quite good.

Thanks for this. I didn't know that there was a C-DAC processor called Vega. Yes the e5500 core is also good. Aircraft also need huge amounts of AI processing power these days as well. I wonder if we can use 2 snapdragons on a card and stack 2-4 such cards with a common block of RAM, and if needed an external video card? This will be an onboard DL rig with very high processing power.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Aircraft also need huge amounts of AI processing power these days as well.
I wonder if we can use 2 snapdragons on a card and stack 2-4 such cards with a common block of RAM, and if needed an external video card?

You are not going to play video games on mission computers. Its an embedded device that runs single pre-determined application and not a general purpose computer.

Aircraft's mission computers in current configuration don't need of AI processing power.
AI is a soft computing field while aircraft's mission computers are based on hard computing. Any induced error due to soft computing may cause crash. We have not yet received such an matured state in AI, that it (AI) can control planes.

Why you want to put 2 snapdragons on a card and stack 2-4 such cards with a common block of RAM? Their is no application need for it. The entire mission computer application is optimized for use on e5500 core. Its not always about hardware, look at apple even though their hardware dwarfs in comparison to Android counterparts but as their software is optimized the give awesome experience compared to Android. Just look at their iPhones or MacBook series.
Do you realize how complex the architecture would be for the configuration you are suggesting not to mention how fragile the system will be.
Why you want a video card on mission computers? You are not going to play games and nor going to do insane number crunching.

This will be an onboard DL rig with very high processing power.

Why you want DL on aircraft, the field is not matured enough to put in aircraft. More importantly what good will come from having DL rig on aircraft.

Just because one thinks AI, ML and DL are fancy hot field that doesn't mean we use them without proper appropriations of advantages and disadvantages.

 

[onlinpunit]

Ok, so they're may be further rollouts of more Tejas in August... but nothing on when delivery to IAF may resume.