LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

[WARREN SS]

MICA is a great but a bit short legged.. what exactly is the issue with integrating Astra with Mirage ?

MICA RF NEZ equals To that Of Aim-120D
Its Also has TVC nozzles gives it 360 degree Cover

 

[destructodisc]

I have a W/C (Retd) AE(L) and a G/C (Retd) F(P) in my family with 5 and 8 wing IAF.
Whenever I talk about HAL - "Bloody Hell" is always the phrase they start with.

Here is Dhanoa Sir @24:30 --> HAL Team is "EK mahina kahi nahi gaya"
you can see the entire talk , its an excellent talk on leadership.

in context of the delivery commitments all I can say is:
Is very hard to rewrite the Historic nature of your organisation/people , We all want HAL to behave like an efficient machinery, but keeping the History in mind , the Odds are slim.

 

[BON PLAN]

MICA RF NEZ equals To that Of Aim-120D
Its Also has TVC nozzles gives it 360 degree Cover

I don't think MICA can compete against AMRAAM D (maybe AMRAAM A or B) in range.
The 2 missiles share the same technology (ie not a stato versus classical booster), and AMRAAM is heavier. I don't think the americans fool enough to produce a bigger missile with aqual range.
Maybe MICA NG.... but AMRAAM will evolve also, so...

 

[onlinpunit]

I don't think MICA can compete against AMRAAM D (maybe AMRAAM A or B) in range.
The 2 missiles share the same technology (ie not a stato versus classical booster), and AMRAAM is heavier. I don't think the americans fool enough to produce a bigger missile with aqual range.
Maybe MICA NG.... but AMRAAM will evolve also, so...

Why European/ french did not bother about long range AAM ( till recently). ?

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Why European/ french did not bother about long range AAM ( till recently). ?

Its very difficult to acquire and track target for aircraft radar at such extreme ranges. Also the missiles can easily jammed, spoofed, out-maneuvered or decoyed at such extreme ranges.
Miss probability increases exponentially as range (distance to target) increases.

Also such long tracks make the targeting/firing aircraft venerable to enemy.

 

[BON PLAN]

Why European/ french did not bother about long range AAM ( till recently). ?

Because at the beginning (ie the 80's if I remember well), the US and Europeans had a deal :
-The US will study and produce the medium range NATO missile : AMRAAM.
-The Europeans will study and produce the NATO WVR missile : ASRAAM.
But it turned wrong. Why? I don't know. But AMRAAM was fully sold, and the US developped the Sidewinder 9X...

Note that the GB developped the active Skyflash (on Tornado F3) , and the french the MICA RF.

 

[BON PLAN]

Why European/ french did not bother about long range AAM ( till recently). ?

Another thing :
The french integrate the Meteor on Rafale mainly for marketing reasons : not to give the other euro canards any edge on BVR, because the french doctrine don't need such a weapon.
The french doctrine, in AtoA and AtoG is to positively identify the target before opening the fire. That's why the MICA has its actual range, to be on par with the OSF inboard optronic range.
And thy why the french ordered so few Meteor... and now have on the drawing board the MICA NG, with greater NEZ more than a pure max range.

 

[ketaki]

Drop the price of Jf-17 or will go for Indian Tejas: Argentina to China
A few months back a delegation from china was in Argentina to pitch JF-17 Thunder jets for its air force, even China able to seal 12 JF-17 fighters for Argentina’s air force.


But according to recent news published on various Chinese media, just as the order for the Dragon Fighter between China and Argentina was about to be signed and delivered, Argentina suddenly change its mind. Not only they ask China to reduce prices, It even pressured they can go for Indian LCA fighter jets. Seems like Argentina finally realised the disadvantages of JF-17 fighter.

Recently, the large order of 12 JF-17 fighters between China and Argentina has changed. During the discussion, Argentina suddenly express JF-17 is too expensive and proposed that if China does not reduce the price, then Argentina is likely to switch to buying India’s LCA Tejas fighters. In response, China said – $50 million price of the JF-17 fighter is absolutely worthy of its performance.

Since the Anglo-Amara Islands War, Argentina’s military strength has been severely hit, and to make matters worse, Argentina was also subject to an arms embargo from the United Kingdom at that time, and this positioning has continued to this day, which led to the British in Europe. Allies are reluctant to sell weapons and equipment to Argentina, and even France once refused to sell weapons and equipment to Argentina.

This has directly led to the extreme shortage of weapons and equipment in Argentina now, and the national air force strugling to find a supersonic fighter. It is imperative for Argentina to purchase new fighters and expand the combat capabilities of the Air Force. After repeated consideration, Argentina finally chose the BLOCK3 model of China’s JF-17 fighter, but Argentina said that the price JF-17 which is $50 million is too expensive, and it is necessary for China to reduce the price, but in fact, such a request is reasonable after all Jf-17 fighter is one of the low quality build fighter in the world

According to Chinese media, Compared with the previous two batches, the third batch of Xiaolong fighters is the most advanced batch. Not only is it installed active phased array radar, but its detection capability can also greatly improved, and it can even produce a certain detection effect on some stealth targets, Can detect six targets within 170 kilometers at the same time, and even direct missiles strike to multiple targets.

The power system has also replaced the RD93MA engine from Russia. While the thrust is increased, the fuel efficiency is improved. At the same time, the entire aircraft’s avionics system and fuel tank systems have been redesigned for combat effectiveness, and can even mount the Pili 10 missiles of the same type as the J-20 fighter. Although the Xiaolong sold to Argentina may not be equipped with Pili 10, it is also It can carry the same advanced missiles such as the J-10c, so although US$50 million is relatively more expensive, it is definitely worth the money. said by Chinese media.

But everyone knows the build quality of Chinese products, example is Wing Loong UCAV export to UAE by China is keep falling from the sky. Both UAE and Iran stop using Chinese made UCAV.

In contrast, the performance of India’s Tejas fighter jets is completely Superior to JF-17 fighter, and in addition to performance, Tejas mk1a is one of the best light weight fighter in the current world. It is fitted with Air-to-air refuelling probe,Fuel system enhancement, Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles, GSH 23 mm twin barrelled gun, advanced avionics with HMD. Even the best part is it can use Russian, Israeli, European, and Indian missiles.

Tejas Elta 2052 radar can track up to 64 targets simultaneously at longer ranges which is more what JF-17 can track. This radar enables Tejas Mk1A to simultaneously target multiple enemy fighters in combat engagements. The range of Tejas radar is nearly 300km.

The aircraft has also been equipped with advanced autopilot capabilities like auto-level (in case of pilot disorientation), safe altitude recovery (which automatically pulls up the aircraft if it comes too close to the ground) and auto navigation modes. It also equipped with Instrument Landing System (ILS) and tactical air navigation system (TACAN), will allow the pilot to concentrate on “head-down” mission-critical requirements rather than worry about basic flying.

Even with these advanced features the price of Tejas is so less compare to others. “Cost per aircraft is Rs 309 crore ($42 million). The trainer will cost Rs 280 crore. This is a very competitive price. Other countries have found this cost and have realised that it is the cheapest offer for a four-and-a-half generation aircraft,” he said.

According to many reports, lots of South Asian, Middle East and India’s neighbor countries are interest in Tejas fighter aircraft. So its no surprise things Argentina looking for LCA Tejas rather than Chinese Jf-17.

Drop the price of Jf-17 or will go for Indian Tejas: Argentina to China – Defence View

Ridiculous
its like saying...drop the price of VIVO phone or I will buy iPhone

 

[onlinpunit]

Another thing :
The french integrate the Meteor on Rafale mainly for marketing reasons : not to give the other euro canards any edge on BVR, because the french doctrine don't need such a weapon.
The french doctrine, in AtoA and AtoG is to positively identify the target before opening the fire. That's why the MICA has its actual range, to be on par with the OSF inboard optronic range.
And thy why the french ordered so few Meteor... and now have on the drawing board the MICA NG, with greater NEZ more than a pure max range.

Is this doctrine feasible in current era. BVR missiles are becoming better both in terms of range and Effectiveness.

 

[ketaki]

Overhauled you can say
They are being overhauled by hal

Bison overhaul is history now...done with last one

 

[BON PLAN]

Is this doctrine feasible in current era. BVR missiles are becoming better both in terms of range and Effectiveness.

It is the french rules today.
Meteor is seen as a Tanker or Awacs killer more than anything.

The quite rare AMRAAM fired in war situation ware far far below the marketing max range !

There is the max range (but in what kind of situation? with that pk? what speed ? What respective altitude? against a target in high G turns or straight flight? etc...)
And there is the NEZ.

 

[ketaki]

what is here?

 

[Bleh]

what is here?

View attachment 96188

View attachment 96194

Yes.

It's the environment control system. Air enters there & exits their the slit above engine after cooling it.

 

[THESIS THORON]

Yes.

It's the environment control system. Air enters there & exits their the slit above engine after cooling it.

View attachment 96196

Cant we use this air for infrared suppression ??

 

[Bleh]

Cant we use this air for infrared suppression ??

I think it does. Can't be sure ofcourse

 

[ketaki]

Yes.

It's the environment control system. Air enters there & exits their the slit above engine after cooling it.

View attachment 96196

like this? in addition to main air intake?

 

[JBH22]

Gripen is undoubtedly a great plane but the quesation here is that when Tejas has similar capabilities of Gripen C/D and MWF has similar capabilities of Gripen E, why would India buy it?

It is in similar class, but with regards to capabilities Tejas when fully inducted we will be able to assess.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Cant we use this air for infrared suppression ??

I don't think it will influence to the extent where it can fool the IR detectors....flares are more effective in general

 

[BON PLAN]

I don't think it will influence to the extent where it can fool the IR detectors....flares are more effective in general

Some engine, as M88, uses external air flux to cool the engine, but mainly to force a cold air enveloppe to hide a little bit the hot flame.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Some engine, as M88, uses external air flux to cool the engine, but mainly to force a cold air enveloppe to hide a little bit the hot flame.

Yes, detectors/sensors are typically maintained lot cooler than ambient temperatures and it is hard to cool the jet engine just with air without carrying extra processing equipment.....it will just minimize somethings and possibly increase material life