No you can't. Not really.
To be fair Russians came up with much up better Mig-21 descendants.
These are the bad outcomes of Chinese efforts for turning a Mig 21 into omni-role fighter like Rafale. The problem got further aggravated by using an under-powered engine RD-33;
I made it, just for the kick... Mig-21 based tailless LCA.
JF-17 - 22.5 seconds for 360 degrees. So STR is 360/22.5 = 16 degrees per secondEven if Tejas matches 80% kinematic performance as shown in the DCS simulation video, it will thrash the "Jeff" in WVR-Gun fight convincingly. The Mirage had a 4:1 kill ratio in this fight AFAIK.
Similarly, WVR + CCM will also give good result in favor of Tejas due to its better pitch control & AoA. In BVR, it will be a balanced fight with advantage to Tejas due to "Low" RCS and considering similar BVR arsenal (PL-10/SD-10 is copy of Derby with superior kinematic performance as claimed; in fact in DCS, it gives better performance than AMRAAM 120C5)
JF-17 - 22.5 seconds for 360 degrees. So STR is 360/22.5 = 16 degrees per second
F-16 - 18 seconds for 360 degrees. So STR is 360/18 = 20 degrees per second
And we already know tejas str is 17and 30 degree itr degree per second according to the official brochure so in a dogfight with jf 17 tejas will always be victorious while 50-50 for f16
Now when did F-16 achieve that feat?.. Share some.F-16 - 18 seconds for 360 degrees. So STR is 360/18 = 20 degrees per second
Maybe during a CAP from forward base... I mean a Mig-21 just did exactly that, and not only did tgat thing have 2/3rd the range but 2/3rd sized drop-tanks too.I feel the Light fighters like Tejas or Jf-17 won't left with enough gas to sustain gun-fights likes these after executive evasive maneuvers against BVR AAMs/ CCMs.
Who knowsThese WVR-Gun fights are pure demonstration of kinematic performance of fighters. That's why such exercises are still followed in mock fight/DACTs to explore the potential of jets & fine tuning of tactics in extreme dog-fight.
In real world, perhaps we will never have such encounters (IMO), the real fight will start at BVR and end with last of the CCMs being fired. I feel the Light fighters like Tejas or Jf-17 won't left with enough gas to sustain gun-fights likes these after executive evasive maneuvers against BVR AAMs/ CCMs.
Do you expect tejas to invade enemy territory?A big no we have rafale and sukhois for that but tejas will be very useful while defending our airspace during enemy intrusionThese WVR-Gun fights are pure demonstration of kinematic performance of fighters. That's why such exercises are still followed in mock fight/DACTs to explore the potential of jets & fine tuning of tactics in extreme dog-fight.
In real world, perhaps we will never have such encounters (IMO), the real fight will start at BVR and end with last of the CCMs being fired. I feel the Light fighters like Tejas or Jf-17 won't left with enough gas to sustain gun-fights likes these after executive evasive maneuvers against BVR AAMs/ CCMs.
I am talking about WVR Gun fights; Not WVR+CCM or "FOX-2" engagement that happened Post- Balakot between MIG 21 & F-16. Visuals of the Mig wreckage indicated that it has plenty of arsenal left even after engaging one F-16 with R-73. Indeed, you can shoot Surveillance balloons & drones using Gun which is a much cheaper option than firing an expensive missile. (Like MKI did in Rajasthan a couple of years back)Who knows
Recently we saw a wvr fight between mig21 bis and f16. In Feb 27
Yeah after getting their ass pounded in the Vietnam war by mig 21s Americans were too pessimistic about wvr fights so they rushed for f15s and stealth platformsI am talking about WVR Gun fights; Not WVR+CCM or "FOX-2" engagement that happened Post- Balakot between MIG 21 & F-16. Visuals of the Mig wreckage indicated that it has plenty of arsenal left even after engaging one F-16 with R-73. Indeed, you can shoot Surveillance balloons & drones using Gun which is a much cheaper option than firing an expensive missile. (Like MKI did in Rajasthan a couple of years back)
Americans/Westerners don't like to fight dirty hence they focus heavily on BVR aspect. The result of which is leading to development of superior BVR AAMs like AIM 120, Meteor etc w.r.t their Soviet counterparts.
Why not ?? I would like to exploit its claimed "Low Electronic & Visual Observability" for disabling enemy AADs located near the border. And who knows while executing CAPs, you end up chasing the hostile jet well inside their border. By limiting its role as Sentry aircraft meant for protecting bases only, we are seriously wasting resources when we could deploy better SAMs to defend it with half of the cost.Do you expect tejas to invade enemy territory?A big no we have rafale and sukhois for that but tejas will be very useful while defending our airspace during enemy intrusion
Tejas is very capable for balakot like airstrikes but not for bombing Islamabad after all it's an lcaWhy not ?? I would like to exploit its claimed "Low Electronic & Visual Observability" for disabling enemy AADs located near the border. And who knows while executing CAPs, you end up chasing the hostile jet well inside their border. By limiting its role as Sentry aircraft meant for protecting bases only, we are seriously wasting resources when we could deploy better SAMs to defend it with half of the cost.
That fight lasted seconds. And I noticed WC Varthaman's Mig-21 crashed with its tanks attached... that means he didn't do any hard maneuvers! Most likely one F-16 acted as bait & its wingman shot him down.I am talking about WVR Gun fights; Not WVR+CCM or "FOX-2" engagement that happened Post- Balakot between MIG 21 & F-16.
It's range with 3 LGBs & 2 1360lts is near 1000km... And I'm not even including Brahmos.Tejas is very capable for balakot like airstrikes but not for bombing Islamabad after all it's an lca
That's what I meant; By the way, Islamabad is not that far if you consider lateral distance from IB. Again, I agree that it may not be used for Deeper Strikes. But even with that, it fulfills its role much more than expected for a fighter meant for replacing ageing Mig-21s.Tejas is very capable for balakot like airstrikes but not for bombing Islamabad
I know abhinandan episode is old now but I m still curious what went wrong as there is no official info from iaf? Is pravin sawnhey right about porks hacking into Abhi's comms? Do u hav knowledge on thatThat fight lasted seconds. And I noticed WC Varthaman's Mig-21 crashed with its tanks attached... that means he didn't do any hard maneuvers! Most likely one F-16 acted as bait & its wingman shot him down.
If the FC-1 is dropping flares, or F-16 is in going in a vertical climb then the cannon is a good option if range-plane-lead is there.
It's range with 3 LGBs & 2 1360lts is near 1000km... And I'm not even including Brahmos.
Think before blurting out these stuff.
Jamming a Mig-21 is easy.I am sure abhinandan episode is old now but I m still curious what went wrong as there is no official info from iaf? Is pravin sawnhey right about porks hacking into Abhi's comms
DefinitelyView attachment 50025
At this config Mark1/A can drop that LGB even at Gwadar port & another with a drop tank in centreline is capable of escorting it there.
Jamming a Mig-21 is easy.
What bothers me is why wasn't his tanks punched?.. Why didn't he laubch with R-77 before merging?
With still no concrete evidence, if those photos/footages of multiple parachutes were not there I wouldn't believe that the F-16s was actually shot down. Jets can limp back to base after a hit.
Mig 21 bis has a radar of range 50km so it probably couldn't detect the f16sView attachment 50025
At this config Mark1/A can drop that LGB even at Gwadar port & another with a drop tank in centreline is capable of escorting it there.
Jamming a Mig-21 is easy.
What bothers me is why wasn't his tanks punched?.. Why didn't he laubch with R-77 before merging?
With still no concrete evidence, if those photos/footages of multiple parachutes were not there I wouldn't believe that the F-16s was actually shot down. Jets can limp back to base after a hit.
Do you think with that amount of load(droptanks,lgb,ccm,bvr) it would be maneuverable enough?Don't you understand that paf f16s in air superiority mode will resist the intruding tejas formation?That's why we require rafales and sukhois that could carry a lot of payload without significant loss in agilityThat fight lasted seconds. And I noticed WC Varthaman's Mig-21 crashed with its tanks attached... that means he didn't do any hard maneuvers! Most likely one F-16 acted as bait & its wingman shot him down.
If the FC-1 is dropping flares, or F-16 is in going in a vertical climb then the cannon is a good option if range-plane-lead is there.
It's range with 3 LGBs & 2 1360lts is near 1000km... And I'm not even including Brahmos.
Think before blurting out these stuff.
Well they got in WVR, so should have detected it at some range. Also so I learnt Rules of Engagement didn't allow use of BVR during peacetime... Porks broke it.Mig 21 bis has a radar of range 50km so it probably couldn't detect the f16s
That's where you are mistaking!.. Rafales & Sukhois aren't maneuverable with "a lot of payload". With same payload as Tejas, ie not max for them they'll still become too sluggish to dogfight... can only knotch & fire BVRs.That's why we require rafales and sukhois that could carry a lot of payload without significant loss in agility
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