Kolkata Class Destroyers Update

J20!

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Sorry if I sound rude but most of them have really no clue on what is being said. They are just fan boys who believe their navy by trying to copy what USN is doing with their inferior weapons have the same capability as USN.
No one has said 88 Shtil's. I said SAM's. The two Kastan's have a total of 64 short range 9M311 missiles. Unlike Type-054A which is stuck with just 32 medium range SAM's..
Knowledge cannot be ascertained by nationality and such stereotypes are unfavorable to a dignified or productive debate. Only information supported by verifiable fact can be called knowledge; and very few of your comments can be backed up with verifiable sources.

Actually... No. The latest batch of talwars - F45, F50, F51 - have had CIWSs replaced with AK630's over the "64 missile" Kashtan. If the Kashtan's VSHORAD missiles make the Talwar such a superior vessel, why have they been replaced on all second batch of talwars and the Vikramaditya with a solely gun based CIWS?



Type 054A's carry a 7 barrel 30mm Gatling gun based CIWS in the form of two Type 0730 that replaced the AK630's on the preceding Type 054 class:

Type 054A



Note the AK630's above the hanger on the earlier Type 054 iteration:



TAlwar as per IN's need is multipurpose frigate and not a patch up job like Type-054A.
As usual, no supporting info, just speculation based on deeply ingrained stereotypes. How does one label a 20 ship production line that has been operating throughout most of the world's oceans for the most part of the last decade, "a patch up job"? Even its stealth profile and its production process are much more modern and refined than the Talwar's.

Talwars and Type 054A's are in the same weight class and carry a very similar sensor and weapons suite - different versions of the venerable Top Plate radar, 24 mid-range SAMs, a CIWS comprising 2 Gatling guns and 8 ASMs - which leads me to the conclusion that:

Clearly the talwar is superior in your opinion purely based on its Nationality, not on the capabilities availed to it by its sensor and weapons suite; so forgive me for not continuing this off-topic "debate".
 
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J20!

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The Quote
does not hold true because using defense power as tool to resolve disputes cannot be peaceful.... and in the case of Japan China has taken very strong stands in the past ......
Civilian maritime security agencies such as the Fisheries Law Enforcement Command, Maritime Surveillance and Coast guard vessels patrol and exercise China's sovereignty in territorial (including disputed) waters, not the PLAN, which does not count as "defense power". Many countries around the world, including Japan use a similar policy.

In numerous clashes in around the "Spratly Islands" and "Scarborough Shoal", China has employed civilian maritime authority vessels and personnel, even when Vietnam and the Philippines were deploying their frontline naval vessels ( though in the Philippines case, its flagship is a retired USG cutter).

China makes regular use of China Coast Guard ships to assert and defend its maritime territorial claims, with Chinese Navy ships sometimes available over the horizon as backup forces. Chinese Coast Guard ships are unarmed or lightly armed, but can be effective in asserting and defending maritime territorial claims, particularly in terms of confronting or harassing foreign vessels that are similarly lightly armed or unarmed.
In the case of Japan its a deadlock for you as they do have strength to give you a tough flight....
I agree. The clashes in the ECS around the Diaoyutai's have often and mostly involved coast guard and maritime surveillance vessels, not the warships of the respective Japanese and hinese Navies, though some confrontations have occurred.

I am referring to Senkaku Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia source for info.... so if any ambiguity is there do let me know...

on the other hand China has been following a strategic move claiming a large mass of land which is not under theer control stating old dynasty maps and all....
Same is the issue between India and China....

do correct me in case of any ambiguity or error....
That's a stark misrepresentation of history. the PRC and the RoC before it have always laid claim to the Diaoyutai's(which China administered before the Sino-Japanese war in which Japan forcefully seized them. even now, the RoC government in Taiwan has the exact same territorial claims that the PRC does. A fact often overlooked by geopolitics pundits when they're claiming that China is an "expansionist" "hegemon" "strategically" claiming territory.

The map of the nine-dash line, also called the U-shaped line or the cow tongue,26 predates the establishment of the People's Republic of China (PRC) in 1949. The map has been maintained by the PRC government, and maps published in Taiwan also show the nine line segments.27 In a
Another fact often overlooked is that the US unilaterally bestowed administration of the Diaoyutai's on Japan at the San Francisco Treaty which the PRC and the Soviet Union denounced and where excluded from despite the fact that conquered territory (including Chinese territory like Taiwan - called Formosa at the time - and the Diaoyutais) liberated from Imperial japan where being parceled out to its neighbors and some annexed by the US itself. A move China has often and loudly proclaimed to be an "unequal treaty". This narrative that China only started contesting Japanese administration of the Diaoyutais after "oil" was discovered under the seabed there in the 1970's is pure misrepresentation of historical realities. (Please refer to the Wikipedia link you posted).

The Soviet Union's objections were detailed in a lengthy September 8, 1951 statement by Gromyko.[10] The statement contained a number of Soviet Union's claims and assertions: that the treaty did not provide any guarantees against the rise of Japanese militarism; that China was not invited to participate despite being one of the main victims of the Japanese aggression; that the Soviet Union was not properly consulted when the treaty was being prepared; that the treaty sets up Japan as an American military base and draws Japan into a military coalition directed against the Soviet Union; that the treaty was in effect a separate peace treaty; that the draft treaty violated the rights of China to Taiwan and several other islands; that several Japanese islands were ceded by the treaty to the United States despite the U.S. not having any legitimate claim to them; that the draft treaty, in violation of the Yalta agreement, did not recognize the Soviet Union's sovereignty over South Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands; and other objections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_San_Francisco

Text of Gromyko's Statement on the Peace Treaty; Contrast With Other Treaties Cites Expansion After 1937 See Japan as a Military Base Soviet Delegate Says 'Separate Peace' May Embroil Far East in War, With Japan as Base U. S. Delegates Assailed Calls It Separate Treaty Sees Gross Injustice to ChinaDenies U. S. Consulted Soviet China's Claim to Islands Lists Soviet's Amendments
On August 15, 1951and September 18, 1951 the PRC published statements denouncing the treaty, stating that it was illegal and should not be recognized. Besides their general exclusion from the negotiation process, the PRC claimed that Xisha Paracel Islands, Nansha Spratly Islands and Dongsha Pratas Islands in the South China Sea were actually part of China.[12] The treaty either did not address these islands, or in the case of the Pratas Islands turned them over to the United Nations.
You don't have to be a historian to see that many of the Soviet and Chinese objections that where ignored by the US at the time have sown the seeds of the emerging conflict we see today. But would the US ever acknowledge any accountability for its part? The blame "Chinese aggression" campaign that has become ingrained in US foreign policy in the Pacific answers that question fully. when looked at in this context, US calls for adhering to "international law" dictated by non other than the US for its own interests, its clear that post WWII treaties like the San Francisco Treaty were self serving UNEQUAL treaties that mainly benefited America and US-aligned countries in the Paific.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9C0DE3DE1031E23BBC4153DFBF66838A649EDE

One last fact I'd like to bring your attention to is the SCS dispute over the Spratly's, which is always portrayed in mainstream media as China "bullying its weak ASEAN neighbors despite all four claimants having overlapping claims. China(the RoC and the PRC) and Vietnam claim all of the Islands, whilst the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei have claims to parts of the Island group. Vietnam claims all of the Islands despite less than 1% of the islands being in Vietnams EEZ, yet Vietnam( and to a degree Taiwan) is rarely if ever accused of violating UNCLOS or "international law" as China is by the "international community" ie the US and its alliance system (Australia, Japan, the Philippines etc).

the Spratly Islands in the SCS, which are claimed entirely by China, Taiwan, and Vietnam, and in part by the Philippines, Malaysia, and Brunei, and which are occupied in part by all these countries except Brunei;
The EEZs shown on the map do not represent the totality of maritime territorial claims by countries in the region. Vietnam, to cite one example, claims all of the Spratly Islands, even though most or all of the islands are outside the EEZ that Vietnam derives from its mainland coast.
Look through this congressional report for some facts( though most parts are a self-serving narrative of events on the part of the US) on the territorial disputes involving China in the SCS and ECS.

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42784.pdf

PS. I'm getting a little uncomfortable with all these OT exchanges. If you wish to continue this discussion, please reply my duplicate post on http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/china/2716-rise-china-strategic-implications-38.html thread.
 
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Bheeshma

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Clearly the talwar is superior in your opinion purely based on its Nationality, not on the capabilities availed to it by its sensor and weapons suite; so forgive me for not continuing this off-topic "debate".

Clearly the Type-054A which even pakis don't want to touch is superior is based on nationality and not capability right? I am not surprised.
 

Yusuf

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Next series of destroyers should get Aegis. India should start talks with US.
 

Srinivas_K

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The radars installed in Kolkata class EL/M-2248 MF-STAR have the similar capabilities, India needs to absorb this technology and then have to make strides in this field.
 

Bheeshma

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IN will not go for AEGIS ever. Will be difficult to integrate with Barak-8 and Brahmos-II.
 

HMS Astute

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India needs to build at least 20x decent size (8000+ tonnes) destroyers and 30x frigates (6000+tonnes) capable of travelling up to 13,000+km.
 
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arnabmit

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Next series of destroyers should get Aegis. India should start talks with US.
India's enemies are across the land border, not across sea border. If any SRBM/IRBM are launched from BoB or AS, they can be taken out by land-based BMD. We do not need Aegis BMD.

Where as LR/ER-SAM+MF-STAR is already comparable to Aegis SAM.
 

right wing

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had a chat with mdl officer..dads friend..candidly stated ins kolkata will have 32 barak8 placed in 4 8chambered vls,n another 32 in ready to fire mode in adjacent hidden vls,just move into position to fire...contrary to our view if using cranes fr reloading n all,he said vls modules,itself r mobile,and will be shifted simultaneously as one launcher gets empty..reloading done automatically...a matter of seconds...
 

Eastman

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had a chat with mdl officer..dads friend..candidly stated ins kolkata will have 32 barak8 placed in 4 8chambered vls,n another 32 in ready to fire mode in adjacent hidden vls,just move into position to fire...contrary to our view if using cranes fr reloading n all,he said vls modules,itself r mobile,and will be shifted simultaneously as one launcher gets empty..reloading done automatically...a matter of seconds...
Inside information :fkidding:
 

p2prada

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Next series of destroyers should get Aegis. India should start talks with US.
IN has already received proposals from the US for AEGIS on the P-17A. It is a joint Lockheed-Hyundai offer.
 

p2prada

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India needs to build at least 20x decent size (8000+ tonnes) destroyers and 30x frigates (6000+tonnes) capable of travelling up to 13,000+km.
We may see such large projects implemented after this decade. Right now it is around half that and half of them meant to replace older ships.
 

blueblood

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We may see such large projects implemented after this decade. Right now it is around half that and half of them meant to replace older ships.
20 is too big a number. Smaller frigates of around 4000-6000 tons should do the job. OTOH, something akin to arsenal ship with AD1 and AD2 in addition to VLRSAM for each naval command should be the way to go.
 

rohit b3

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The second ship of the Kolkata Class was supposed to start Sea Trials earlier this July. There has been no updates since then. Can anyone who is assosiated with the Navy/MDL confirm this please?
 

Kunal Biswas

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Press Information Bureau English Releases

Successful Flight Testing of LR SAM Missile

The Long Range Surface to Air Missile (LRSAM) is successfully flight tested against a flying target in a range in Israel, today. Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI), Israel has carried out the test in the presence of DRDO scientists and officials of the Indian Armed Forces. The LRSAM system is jointly developed by DRDO and IAI Israel.

All the systems including the radar, communication launch systems and the missile system have performed as expected and hit the target directly and damaged. The system is developed for both Israel Defence Forces and Indian Armed Forces.

Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister Dr. Avinash Chander has witnessed the test along with President of IAI Mr. Joseph Weiss and other top officials of Israel Defence Forces. He termed the event as a milestone in the cooperation between two countries in developing advanced weapon systems.

HH/RAJ
(Release ID :111231)

===========
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nys7UtLNV90
 

Kunal Biswas

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screen shot



front fins opening up



back fins opening up




Credit : @sayareakd Sir ..
 
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akshay m

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The Kolkata is now in Cochin , took these pictures of her while driving to the Shiva Temple in Ernakulam on 01/12/14.



are you sure its kolkata?
couldn't it be kochi ? kochi went on trials on 12 august 2014,nothing hs been heard of her since .
what makes me suspicicious is that i do not see D63 written her hull
 

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