Kaveri Engine

[biswaranjanrath.sipu]

I have heard that kaveri program was totally discarded recently. Is it true ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Vietnam is only interested if India offers Tejas equipped with Russian or Kaveri engines, They will be phasing out MIG-21 by 2016 and require light fighters ..

 

[sgarg]

Agreed, but the programme failed to meet the desired results. Why couldn't a higher trust engine be developed should be addressed. I know its difficult for a country who's completely skipping previous generation engines to develop an engine fit for current gen fighters. Still its important that the requirements are met.

AMCA has to be powered by a indigenous engine and i think kaveri wont be suitable engine for a stealth plane.

Technology development is always incremental. You cannot jump from making nuts and bolts to airplanes.

The technology is the limiting factor when developing a "Western analogue" aircraft engine. And nobody will give you engine technology. Many processes used in engine are closely guarded secrets.

You have to make a start with what you have. Why is IAF flying Mig-21 when it is long outdated? One has to adjust to reality.

 

[sgarg]

Vietnam is only interested if India offers Tejas equipped with Russian or Kaveri engines, They will be phasing out MIG-21 by 2016 and require light fighters ..

Because Vietnam knows that Uncle cannot be relied upon. Uncle can cut off the spares supply any day on slightest excuse.

 

[sgarg]

I have heard that kaveri program was totally discarded recently. Is it true ?

It was stopped in 2012 but restarted late 2013.

How can you stop a program when you have no other option.

LCA was threatened many times still it got IOC and FOC is near too. There is no option. These are long gestation projects. They will take time and money.

A large country like India must learn the art of patience.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Which must be understood if Tejas has to be an export success as Dhruv ..

Because Vietnam knows that Uncle cannot be relied upon. Uncle can cut off the spares supply any day on slightest excuse.

 

[sgarg]

India has its two foot in two very rocky boats. One boat is Russia (which is rocking wildly due to Ukraine) and another USA (which thinks it can do anything that it wants).

China has been sensible to supply its military only those items which is can sustain in war. Nobody knows how long a war lasts. People talk about a 2 week war etc. where the last one (Kargil) lasted 2 months. You need reliable supplies of spares and local know-how.

 

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

https://twitter.com/SJha1618

DRDO has developed single crystal casting process for high pressure turbine blades (HPTB) and high pressure turbine vanes

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/519539320521113600

 

[kumar2310s]

Is there any progress on indigenous engine yet? US cannot be relied upon unless they enter a technology transfer agreement. We cannot have limited license production agreements since these kind of agreements will limit the number of indigenous aircrafts India will be able to manufature.

 

[sgarg]

USA will never give engine technology to India. The licensed manufacture will come with a number of conditions which will actually create more problems for local industry.

It is better to import fully built F404 and F414 engines from USA; and keep Indian engine program completely separate.'

 

[sgarg]

I believe there is no option but to pursue Kaveri to its natural conclusion. This engine needs to go into production.

Two of Kaveri engines can be fitted in AMCA. We also need to see Kaveri on Tejas.

 

[kumar2310s]

Indian scientific community need to devote priority on Engine technology. When china is working on Scramjet technology, delay in mastering engine technology is a limiting factor for india's success. Import is not a solution.

 

[pmaitra]

To accommodate the GE-F404, HAL LCA Tejas' airframe had to be modified. People were cool about it.

If this modification were to be made for the Kaveri engine, would people still act cool?

 

[ladder]

To accommodate the GE-F404, HAL LCA Tejas' airframe had to be modified. People were cool about it.

If this modification were to be made for the Kaveri engine, would people still act cool?

I think, there will be a couple of countries, who though interested in Tejas will not seriously consider it for it has sanction prone USA power plant. A variant of Tejas with Kaveri and devoid of sanction prone components though deficient on some quarters will still be up for serious consideration in those countries.

 

[sgarg]

I think, there will be a couple of countries, who though interested in Tejas will not seriously consider it for it has sanction prone USA power plant. A variant of Tejas with Kaveri and devoid of sanction prone components though deficient on some quarters will still be up for serious consideration in those countries.

It is not only sanctions. There are more problems. Indian need of engines is very high as several engines are needed through life of a fighter. So engine dependence is a life-long dependence.
If we develop a local engine which resembles imported F404 or F414, Americans can sue us for patent infringement or theft of intellectual property. This can constrain local technology development.

 

[ladder]

It is not only sanctions. There are more problems. Indian need of engines is very high as several engines are needed through life of a fighter. So engine dependence is a life-long dependence.
If we develop a local engine which resembles imported F404 or F414, Americans can sue us for patent infringement or theft of intellectual property. This can constrain local technology development.

Strange, why do you want to 'copy' F404 or F414, that is a very difficult thing to do and legally un-advisable. Stranger thing is why did you bring this up, were we discussing copying?

 

[sgarg]

It is not strange at all. You can read the news about generic pharma sector where several companies have lawsuits against them for one thing or other.

It happens that a local development is influenced by an imported product that is in use. It happens all the time. The complex patents and technology denial regime of USA is very hard to navigate.

This is my opinion (and official viewpoint may be different) that we should not attempt TOT of F414.

 

[Compersion]

If we copy the relationship becomes bad. We can do it and it is not difficult (not sure about engines) and seen in many areas. If we dont copy the relationship is there and also joint communication on making the thing better and also we are not adversary and enemies if that is the case. India policy of importing has a component of foreign policy and developing relationship with that country. Copying and swindling to be able to make the product is not good for relationship and also not good for future joint-collaborations with other and current partners. Also abiding by agreements and terms is reflected by each of the parties positions.

 

[sgarg]

When you develop things which are for same purpose and works the same way, the technology developed will be similar even if your intention is not to copy.

It is a fact that American engine tech is far ahead of Russian. The American engines expose Indians to the best technology and naturally there will be a tendency to use similar features in local engines.

This has happened with a lot of Russian goods also but Russians have been rather nice to Indians.

I think it will be better to import fully built units right now until our own Kavery engine passes the specs. Then nobody can question our intentions.

 

[biswaranjanrath.sipu]

Kaveri is a perfect engine except some minor but vital parts such as the alloy blade used in it.it has a tendency of cracking up after a continuous long time use due to high temperature.so DRDO need single cristal blade to replace this which can withstand very high temperature.except this there is need to trim its weight to at least 1100kg to increase its wt:thrust ratio.