Kaveri Engine

Kshithij

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Yes, which makes the figures official and we also know that the programme was scrapped in 2015, because the DRDO was not able to fix the issues.
It was not scrapped. Parrikar is not retarded to cancel a project of this big magnitude. I have told this before. Media is not trust worthy. Kaveri engine project is still running. So much for it being scraped
 

Kshithij

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Yes, which makes the figures official and we also know that the programme was scrapped in 2015, because the DRDO was not able to fix the issues.
It was not scrapped. Parrikar is not retarded to cancel a project of this big magnitude. I have told this before. Media is not trust worthy. Kaveri engine project is still running. So much for it being scraped
 

Steven Rogers

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Yes, which makes the figures official and we also know that the programme was scrapped in 2015, because the DRDO was not able to fix the issues.
"Scrapped"... Where is the official paper of that, if you could bring. Last I know at Aero India their has been "talk" on the development of Kaveri fresh 2016 end. Can you give the issues, it's details about how, why it occurs, what it's affect and why not they weren't able to rectify it(not the bs absence of testbed or complaining about the laziness type stronk) .

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Kshithij

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"Scrapped"... Where is the official paper of that, if you could bring. Last I know at Aero India their has been "talk" on the development of Kaveri fresh 2016 end. Can you give the issues, it's details about how, why it occurs, what it's affect and why not they weren't able to rectify it(not the bs absence of testbed or complaining about the laziness type stronk) .

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Why test bed is Bullshit? I am not able to understand your logic. Can an engine be completed without test bed?
 

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Why test bed is Bullshit? I am not able to understand your logic. Can an engine be completed without test bed?
You misunderstand him
He is not saying test bed is bs
Instead he is asking for a proper reason instead of the usual jumlabazi
 

Steven Rogers

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Why test bed is Bullshit? I am not able to understand your logic. Can an engine be completed without test bed?
Its equally important, but that is has been used for targeting the whole project, so I don't wanna the same excuse for that great personal thinking. I was just asking for paper.

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rudresh

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Yes, which makes the figures official and we also know that the programme was scrapped in 2015, because the DRDO was not able to fix the issues.
This is really more than utter nonsense. Some people always want to make others think in a negative loop always. Kaveri engine was scrapped was nonsense from the beginning because the same engine was going to be put into UCAV.

Some people like you never want the engine to fructify and make the country proud.

I really don't know why u are talking when everyone is expecting an engine which will be ported to Tejas.

The engine is and will be a success........if u can't contribute any thing good no problem but don't keep telling the same sick old 2015 story at least......

Get up man it is 2018..... Have a fresh look be positive.......
 

rudresh

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Kaveri has run at 81kN. It was aimed at 90kN. Even 80+kN was OK, but the after burners were unstable and needed fine tuning.

Years to develop? Why is it an infinite loop?
I have been telling about this from the beginning.... Now the thing left is testing testing testing and more testing to make the things work the same way when you put that with the tejas. NEW GENERATION BLADES AND TEMPERATURE RESISTANT COATING etc and upgrades will be Normal talk from now on...... But the main hurdle remains until the engine is ported on to the plane....... May be 90kn or above come later to satisfy the fetish of IAF but whatever the engine which is 70,80,90,95kn should be put in a probably dual engine testbed and tested till every parameter is perfectly checked.......thats all should be expected.....
 

Sancho

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It was not scrapped. Parrikar is not retarded to cancel a project of this big magnitude. I have told this before. Media is not trust worthy. Kaveri engine project is still running. So much for it being scraped
It doesn't matter what you claim or believe, since most of it are just personal opinions without any base. What is important are credible infos and facts, to get to an understanding of a topic. If you would inform yourself more about Rafale, Gripen, or Kaveri..., you wouldn't get corrected so often :

DRDO to abandon indigenous fighter jet engine Kaveri project
Jan 11, 2015

...Refusing to divulge the finer details, Dr K Tamilmani, Director-General (Aero), DRDO, confirmed to OneIndia that the Kaveri project will be scrapped. "Yes. These are part of the bold stand being taken by DRDO. Whereever we have found bottlenecks for long time, with no realistic solutions, it's better to move on. It is an honest stand we are taking," Tamilmani said...
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/kaveri-engine.5097/page-119#post-1382731
 

SanjeevM

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It doesn't matter what you claim or believe, since most of it are just personal opinions without any base. What is important are credible infos and facts, to get to an understanding of a topic. If you would inform yourself more about Rafale, Gripen, or Kaveri..., you wouldn't get corrected so often :

DRDO to abandon indigenous fighter jet engine Kaveri project
Jan 11, 2015

...Refusing to divulge the finer details, Dr K Tamilmani, Director-General (Aero), DRDO, confirmed to OneIndia that the Kaveri project will be scrapped. "Yes. These are part of the bold stand being taken by DRDO. Whereever we have found bottlenecks for long time, with no realistic solutions, it's better to move on. It is an honest stand we are taking," Tamilmani said...
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/kaveri-engine.5097/page-119#post-1382731
This is a very old news of 2015. After this deal was made with French for revival of Tejas as offset of Rafael deal. So now change your thought process and be positive. If you can't be positive, don't post negative at least.
 

Sancho

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Kaveri engine was scrapped was nonsense from the beginning because the same engine was going to be put into UCAV.
Wrong, Kaveri engine was developed for fighters with afterburner capability, which is not required for UCAVs. Because the engine was not able to meet the required AB thrust for LCA, it still was offered by DRDO in a non AB varient for UCAVs, which however requires not much further development of the engine, except for the reliability issues, but the development of the UCAV in the first place.
So we could had sit and wait with Kaveri until the UCAV was available, or tried to get the Kaveri / Snecma co-development on track again, when Safran asked us where Rafale offsets could be diverted to.

Some people like you never want the engine to fructify and make the country proud.
Realists like me, understand that the country doesn't get anywhere on false dreams and hopes. Kaveri was a failure so far and now we can hope, that Safran can fix the problems and provides us with enough know how to improve our engine development base for future projects. If Kaveri / Snecma will have enough thrust to power LCA needs to be seen and not just expected. That's why it's crucial to keep Kaveri and Tejas developments separate, until the engine is ready, reliable and offers enough thrust.

Pride doesn't make any indigenous development capable, nor does it protect the country. We need to meet the development goals and time lines, to really make use of these systems and get independent. Only then we actually have achieved something and not by testing prototypes for years.
 

Kshithij

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It doesn't matter what you claim or believe, since most of it are just personal opinions without any base. What is important are credible infos and facts, to get to an understanding of a topic. If you would inform yourself more about Rafale, Gripen, or Kaveri..., you wouldn't get corrected so often :

DRDO to abandon indigenous fighter jet engine Kaveri project
Jan 11, 2015

...Refusing to divulge the finer details, Dr K Tamilmani, Director-General (Aero), DRDO, confirmed to OneIndia that the Kaveri project will be scrapped. "Yes. These are part of the bold stand being taken by DRDO. Whereever we have found bottlenecks for long time, with no realistic solutions, it's better to move on. It is an honest stand we are taking," Tamilmani said...
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/kaveri-engine.5097/page-119#post-1382731
The definition of scrapping means that the project is no longer existing. But Kaveri engine project is still ongoing. So, what is the real deal? What effect did this scrapping have on Kaveri engine? If there is no effect, what is the point?

Foret about pride or any other feelings. I am asking to respond in facts.
 

Sancho

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This is a very old news of 2015. After this deal was made with French for revival of Tejas as offset of Rafael deal. So now change your thought process and be positive. If you can't be positive, don't post negative at least.
This is not old news, but relevant information to understand where the project was, who put it on hold and why. It's not meant to be positive nor negative, but informative!

Just because people don't like it, doesn't mean I have to fake the reality. Moreover, we need to learn from our mistakes and that's only possible if we acknowledge them and failures in the first place!
Ignoring things, not holding scientists and project managers accountable for mistakes, is one of the core reasons why our developments get delayed or worse.
 
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Sancho

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The definition of scrapping means that the project is no longer existing. But Kaveri engine project is still ongoing. So, what is the real deal? What effect did this scrapping have on Kaveri engine?
The effect was, that it was not meant for any fighter anymore, until Safran offered help via Rafale offsets!
So there was no Indian plan to revive it, neither did ADA or HAL planned with it for LCA MK1A, MK2, or AMCA, because it was clear that the development had no scope and DRDO was not able to fix things.
 

Kshithij

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The effect was, that it was not meant for any fighter anymore, until Safran offered help via Rafale offsets!
So there was no Indian plan to revive it, neither did ADA or HAL planned with it for LCA MK1A, MK2, or AMCA, because it was clear that the development had no scope and DRDO was not able to fix things.
How do you know that there was no scope? Is Safran some kind of angel who will simply help India by giving the highest ToT?

The way I see it is that there has been no effect on kaveri irrespective of whether anyone said that it was scrapped or not.
 

Steven Rogers

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Wrong, Kaveri engine was developed for fighters with afterburner capability, which is not required for UCAVs. Because the engine was not able to meet the required AB thrust for LCA, it still was offered by DRDO in a non AB varient for UCAVs, which however requires not much further development of the engine, except for the reliability issues, but the development of the UCAV in the first place.
So we could had sit and wait with Kaveri until the UCAV was available, or tried to get the Kaveri / Snecma co-development on track again, when Safran asked us where Rafale offsets could be diverted to.



Realists like me, understand that the country doesn't get anywhere on false dreams and hopes. Kaveri was a failure so far and now we can hope, that Safran can fix the problems and provides us with enough know how to improve our engine development base for future projects. If Kaveri / Snecma will have enough thrust to power LCA needs to be seen and not just expected. That's why it's crucial to keep Kaveri and Tejas developments separate, until the engine is ready, reliable and offers enough thrust.

Pride doesn't make any indigenous development capable, nor does it protect the country. We need to meet the development goals and time lines, to really make use of these systems and get independent. Only then we actually have achieved something and not by testing prototypes for years.
Realist seems a journalist in Indian media.

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rudresh

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Wrong, Kaveri engine was developed for fighters with afterburner capability, which is not required for UCAVs. Because the engine was not able to meet the required AB thrust for LCA, it still was offered by DRDO in a non AB varient for UCAVs, which however requires not much further development of the engine, except for the reliability issues, but the development of the UCAV in the first place.
So we could had sit and wait with Kaveri until the UCAV was available, or tried to get the Kaveri / Snecma co-development on track again, when Safran asked us where Rafale offsets could be diverted to.



Realists like me, understand that the country doesn't get anywhere on false dreams and hopes. Kaveri was a failure so far and now we can hope, that Safran can fix the problems and provides us with enough know how to improve our engine development base for future projects. If Kaveri / Snecma will have enough thrust to power LCA needs to be seen and not just expected. That's why it's crucial to keep Kaveri and Tejas developments separate, until the engine is ready, reliable and offers enough thrust.

Pride doesn't make any indigenous development capable, nor does it protect the country. We need to meet the development goals and time lines, to really make use of these systems and get independent. Only then we actually have achieved something and not by testing prototypes for years.
Oh man do you just know the afterburner efficiency of kaveri engine...... Better you know it first...... Before ranting.

The core is the heart of the engine and really not the afterburner....... If the engine without afterburner was getting developed means the engine is under development and not scrapped.........

Till today I really don't know what French are going to do to kaveri except some fine tuning for the engine...... Like slight modifications for decreasing screech, increasing combustion efficiency some small changes here and there for the engine........ and testing the engine in a sophisticated engine test bed for optimum results will yield a good 90kn engine.

If there is a real help with metallurgy then kaveri engine will be a real 120kn engine with optimum weight. Which will never be the case with kabini core.

If they change the core that will be a completely different matter altogether.

As such French assistance will not be any thing great with can be called as ground breaking.....because engine, metallurgy, manufacturing process etc will still be completely indian and may be some assistance may be in directly selling some engine parts only. As such French cannot change a failed engine to a good performing engine. Even then the kaveri will never be a failure..........
 
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Sancho

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How do you know that there was no scope? Is Safran some kind of angel who will simply help India by giving the highest ToT?

The way I see it is that there has been no effect on kaveri irrespective of whether anyone said that it was scrapped or not.
And that's your problem, you only see things how you want them to be, not how they really are. When the former DRDO chief confirms that the project got scrapped and even states "with no realistic solutions, it's better to move on", you claim the opposite, but that doesn't make it true.

And as explained, Safran asked DRDO for fields to divert the mandatory Rafale offsets to and as we know 30% were meant to be diverted to research, which made fixing Kaveri an obvious choice, since they offered the same before.
 

Sancho

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If the engine without afterburner was getting developed means the engine is under development and not scrapped.........


Again wrong, because the development was with AB, while the proposition to use it without AB was just one of the options to use the available engine on a different platform. DRDO also proposed to use it in different form for naval vessels or trains. The fighter version with AB however was scrapped as the DRDO chief confirmed and got revived only by the French.

Till today I really don't know what French are going to do to kaveri except some fine tuning for the engine......
Read the reports I gave of the IAF committee, or the Safran Chief, which makes it clear that the aim is on using the M88 core, which means it's not fine tuning at all, but transfering a foreign heart into our base engine. And even the M88 ECO core was aimed only at 90kN thrust, which actually would be lower than required for LCA, while the 110kN for AMCA would require a further developed core as well. So still a lot of work to be done, with dedicated test and certifications, while the outcome is uncertain so far.
 

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