Kaveri Engine

[Kunal Biswas]

The advanced kaveri would be somewhere between what volvo did with RM-12 and completely designing a new engine. @Twinblade

 

[Kchontha]

Volvo RM12 is a version/derivative of GE F404. Changes from the F404 includes greater reliability for single engine operations, increased thrust and adoption of FADEC system. GE produces 50% of the engine. Now the question is which OEM will partner GTRE. It is speculated that SAFRAN will produced 40% while the remaining percent will be derived from the original Kaveri. It is expected to be in the air at aero india 2019. It is also circulated in the media that Rolls Royce is also helping GTRE to revive a verson of kaveri. It looks like gtre is developing different verson of kaveri. If fructified the future of jet engine technology in India is bright. The definitive powerplant for amca will be a verson of kaveri. Different versons of kaveri can also re-engined all the fighters available with IAF in the near future.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

India need material technology, K10 series of prototypes are perhaps ready for testing and GTRE is ordering lots of fuel for tests ..

18 months was given for new engine, Alot of that time has passed ..

 

[VIP]

India need material technology, K10 series of prototypes are perhaps ready for testing and GTRE is ordering lots of fuel for tests ..

18 months was given for new engine, Alot of that time has passed ..

18 months time was for K9 or K10 ??? As far as I have read, SNECMA has agreed to help revive K9 and time frame was for K9. Rolls royce has tied up with GTRE for K10, right ?

 

[singh100ful]

18 months time was for K9 or K10 ??? As far as I have read, SNECMA has agreed to help revive K9 and time frame was for K9. Rolls royce has tied up with GTRE for K10, right ?

The rolls royce news is mostly fake or made up by some journalists.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its not specified for which series of prototypes, but its probably K10 series ..

SNECMA is the one in the project ..

18 months time was for K9 or K10 ??? As far as I have read, SNECMA has agreed to help revive K9 and time frame was for K9. Rolls royce has tied up with GTRE for K10, right ?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

Main target of GTRE is to acheive 110 KN thrust and then aim for 125 KN.

 

[Screambowl]

India need material technology, K10 series of prototypes are perhaps ready for testing and GTRE is ordering lots of fuel for tests ..

18 months was given for new engine, Alot of that time has passed ..

not just material but also turbine technology. Specially in the fields of fluid mechanics and thermodynamics.
matrices of equations and mathematical model building in the areas of computational and control engineering. Which we lack due to lack of funds to pursue doctoral level research.

And most of the research is already done and would be time waste to do it again.

For example fluoride based batteries being researched in EU same time in IIT. But in IIT there is lack of funds. Otherwise this research would really change shape of Indian automobile industry and can be used in further applications.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Probably in much advance designs, but the main concern and always was is the material..

not just material but also turbine technology. Specially in the fields of fluid mechanics and thermodynamics.
matrices of equations and mathematical model building in the areas of computational and control engineering. Which we lack due to lack of funds to pursue doctoral level research.

And most of the research is already done and would be time waste to do it again.

For example fluoride based batteries being researched in EU same time in IIT. But in IIT there is lack of funds. Otherwise this research would really change shape of Indian automobile industry and can be used in further applications.

 

[Screambowl]

Probably in much advance designs, but the main concern and always was is the material..

materials was for the strength and weight reduction. they did test the single crystal but it wasn't as reliable
but to increase the HP chamber air flow ratio which was the major challenge... they are finding the tricks. Because it is the smallest engine, and no engine of this size has ever generated the thrust which they are aiming at.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Not sure what are you talking about ..

materials was for the strength and weight reduction. they did test the single crystal but it wasn't as reliable
but to increase the HP chamber air flow ratio which was the major challenge... they are finding the tricks. Because it is the smallest engine, and no engine of this size has ever generated the thrust which they are aiming at.

 

[Vijyes]

not just material but also turbine technology. Specially in the fields of fluid mechanics and thermodynamics.
matrices of equations and mathematical model building in the areas of computational and control engineering. Which we lack due to lack of funds to pursue doctoral level research.

And most of the research is already done and would be time waste to do it again.

For example fluoride based batteries being researched in EU same time in IIT. But in IIT there is lack of funds. Otherwise this research would really change shape of Indian automobile industry and can be used in further applications.

Kindly don't insult our scientific community by saying that they are incapable of even understanding the formulas. They know the formula and modelling. Funds have been allocated during Vajpayee and Modi time. The first thing before designing engine is to model it. The material may not hold up, but modelling using computer and mathematical formula is a basic thing. They might have overestimated material ability of alloys but saying that people can't even model using today's computers is an outright insult

 

[Screambowl]

Kindly don't insult our scientific community by saying that they are incapable of even understanding the formulas. They know the formula and modelling. Funds have been allocated during Vajpayee and Modi time. The first thing before designing engine is to model it. The material may not hold up, but modelling using computer and mathematical formula is a basic thing. They might have overestimated material ability of alloys but saying that people can't even model using today's computers is an outright insult

you did not go through my second post

 

[Screambowl]

Not sure what are you talking about ..

I am talking about the dimension, heat flow and high pressure chamber of kaveri. It's a state of art.
With this dimension there is no other engine in the world which is being designed to produce 100kN Aft brn.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I don`t know the requirment is official 100Kn, till then lets keep speculation aside ..

I am talking about the dimension, heat flow and high pressure chamber of kaveri. It's a state of art.

With this dimension there is no other engine in the world which is being designed to produce 100kN Aft brn.

 

[Screambowl]

I don`t know the requirment is official 100Kn, till then lets keep speculation aside ..

req. is more than 95kN could be 100% but even reaching 96kN with those dimensions is like a breakthrough.
This is why new set mathematical modelling is required.

 

[Vijyes]

req. is more than 95kN could be 100% but even reaching 96kN with those dimensions is like a breakthrough.
This is why new set mathematical modelling is required.

If AMCA is set to run in F414 initially, the dimensions if K10 will also be similar. What dimensions are you speaking of? F414 has 100kN thrust. K9 is for Tejas Mk1A and is 90kN. Mk2 also will likely use K10/F414. So, going by dimensions, it should be simple

 

[Screambowl]

If AMCA is set to run in F414 initially, the dimensions if K10 will also be similar. What dimensions are you speaking of? F414 has 100kN thrust. K9 is for Tejas Mk1A and is 90kN. Mk2 also will likely use K10/F414. So, going by dimensions, it should be simple

f414 is 154 inches in length
kaveri is just 137

20 inches ( 50 cms ) difference. which is a good difference.
same width.

f414 has more space to let the air squeeze further to accommodate an extra compression stage. If you increase the length of kaveri even by a cm further the total design will have to be changed.

 

[no smoking]

Kindly don't insult our scientific community by saying that they are incapable of even understanding the formulas. They know the formula and modelling. Funds have been allocated during Vajpayee and Modi time.

That is hardly any insulation. Fluid dynamics is one of cutting edge science research in this world. Countries spend billions of dollars each year for their scientists to study and expand their knowledge. The achievement of these research are kept as secrets. No one is giving away, especially those models and formulas which are useful in military aviation design. The only way you can get these formulas or models is through your own experiments. The more experiments you did, the more you learn, the better your model can be. That is why French has far better material tech than Russian, but their jet engine product is still behind Russian.

The first thing before designing engine is to model it. The material may not hold up, but modelling using computer and mathematical formula is a basic thing. They might have overestimated material ability of alloys but saying that people can't even model using today's computers is an outright insult

Of course they can model it, the problem is due to the lack of time and fund, there are too much knowledge missing. Even for the same model, Americans may be confident to push it to extreme high temperature or speed while Indian scientists may not as they don't have the right formula for that environment yet.

People talk about computer as if it is a magic wand: no matter what you lack, it can generate for you. No, until today, computer is only a tool which can accelerate research, but can't replace human brain. In other words, it can only work on the basis of existing knowledge, but it can't discover new knowledge by itself. In last 80-90s, Japanese believed that computer simulation can perfect their modeling and save huge amount of investment on wind tunnel, high altitude testing bed, etc. But it turns out that they wasted almost 10 years.

 

[Vijyes]

f414 is 154 inches in length
kaveri is just 137

20 inches ( 50 cms ) difference. which is a good difference.
same width.

f414 has more space to let the air squeeze further to accommodate an extra compression stage. If you increase the length of kaveri even by a cm further the total design will have to be changed.

F404 is 154 inches long. Isn't kaveri K9 the same size? Why would they want to lower the size unnecessarily? Isn't reverse engineering of F404/F414 more safer option?