J20 Stealth Fighter

[rockdog]

It's kind of empty talk.

In fact, in our military community for years we did simulations by using wargame software like CMANO. If you have time you would try it, but the startup is quite complicatd. The confiugration of J20 is set by the CMANO official, and we used it to battle with F15J and F35, of course F15J is not the latest type of F15 family, but the whole story is quite interesting.

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Google Translation of the simulation of this wargame by CMANO:

4 Conclusion

1) In CMANO, the J-20 undoubtedly has an overwhelming advantage in the face of three generations of fighters. As far as the F-15J mounted AAM-4B is concerned, the overall exchange ratio of all scenarios can reach 1:20, but considering Many of them are not in line with the actual confrontational situation, and this exchange is far greater than 1:50 in reality.

2) In CMANO, the J-20 and F-35A have similar combat effectiveness, and the exchange ratio is close to 1:1;

3) Whether it is the J-20, F-15J, or F-35A, it needs to rely on a complete combat system, such as an information system formed by early warning aircraft and radar. All the tests in this article are only paper data verification. It does not reflect the real battlefield situation. Only by combining with the system can we give full play to our own advantages and effectively reduce battle damage. Due to space constraints, this article does not discuss the engagement in the complex electromagnetic environment, nor does it discuss the supporting role of the air defense system. -20 combat effectiveness will be effectively improved;

4) Other supplements: In addition to this test, PL-12 has been used as a mount for testing, but the exchange ratio with F-15J is not ideal, which proves that the combat effectiveness of PL-15 for the J-20 is significantly improved; in addition, The simulation shows that the J-11B uses PL-12 as the main mount and is relatively passive in the confrontation with F-15J, which has a certain relationship with the paper data of AAM-4B. Since the original data has not been retained, only conclusions are presented for reference.

4.结论

1）CMANO中，歼-20面对三代战机无疑具有压倒性的优势，具体到挂载AAM-4B的F-15J来说，统合各种情境的全局交换比可以达到1:20，但考虑到其中不少是不符合现实对抗的情境，这种交换比实际上要远甚于1:50。

2）CMANO中，歼-20和F-35A具有相近的作战效能，交换比接近1:1；

3）无论是歼-20还是F-15J，又或者是F-35A，都需要依托于完整的作战体系，如预警机、雷达等形成的信息体系，本文中的所有测试仅为纸面数据验证，并不能反映真实的战场态势。只有与体系结合，才能充分发挥自身的优势，并有效降低战损；受制于篇幅，本文未对复杂电磁环境下的交战进行进行探讨，也并未讨论防空体系的支持作用，但相信这些对歼-20的作战效能会有有效提升；

4）其他补充：在本次测试以外，曾以PL-12为挂载进行过测试，但与F-15J的交换比不太理想，证明PL-15对于歼-20的作战效能提升明显；另外的模拟显示，歼-11B以PL-12为主要挂载和F-15J的对抗中较为被动，这和AAM-4B的纸面数据有一定关系。由于原始数据未保留，仅提出结论供参考。

 

[MiG-29SMT]

It's kind of empty talk.

In fact, in our military community for years we did simulations by using wargame software like CMANO. If you have time you would try it, but the startup is quite complicatd. The confiugration of J20 is set by the CMANO official, and we used it to battle with F15J and F35, of course F15J is not the latest type of F15 family, but the whole story is quite interesting.

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pure fantasy there are no J-20 official figures plus F-35 are not taken by a manual is pure especulation of Chinese thinking J-20 will do that

 

[asianobserve]

To understand who leads the world you just need to see the high tech connections

Airbus and Boeing fly engines built in Europe and the USA.

Yielding is a big word but is not true.
Europe will lead because they are supranational governments. their 6th generation fighter is a multinational aircraft.

So i will put it simple Europe leads because represents globalization and the world government.
Their industry also are international monopolies.

Boeing and Airbus (F-35 is a multinational program) Eurofighter same same is Tiger Helo, why? it is cheaper to buy a binational product and a multinational product is much Cheaper.


Only Europe and the USA are 2 times the economy of China.

Europe and the USA will have at least 4 6th generation fighters.

Why? pooling resources on multinational programs alllow more expensive programs that would overwhelm a single nation.

Europe represents the world government as Airbus represents a world class aircraft industry.

F-35 production numbers are higher than J-20, why? simple many nations buy it

I don't know what's the source of your information but only Germany and France have dellusions of grandeur in Europe. All the other members of EU are closer to the US than to Germany and France.

 

[rockdog]

pure fantasy there are no J-20 official figures plus F-35 are not taken by a manual is pure especulation of Chinese thinking J-20 will do that

It's not fantasy, it's serious war simulation software.

At least it's the data from CMANO official, better than nothing, its military version is used by US army.

It reveals that if fighters have gap on generation, the exchange ratio will be shocking, no matter F15 or Rafale.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

It's not fantasy, it's serious war simulation software.

At least it's the data from CMANO official, better than nothing, its military version is used by US army.

It reveals that if fighters have gap on generation, the exchange ratio will be shocking, no matter F15 or Rafale.

It is a simulation but no real data but estimations, when the MiG-23 first appeared, obviously there were especulation about it, it was only until Egypt gave the USA MiG-23MS they could had a glimpse of what was a MiG-23, later on Germany tested the MiG-23ML a much improved MiG-23, then the west had a better idea.

J-20 is a top secret aircraft, the knowlege about it is secret, how good it is no one knows except the Chinese, they can pit it versus Su-27s/J-11s or Su-35s and perhaps have an idea how good it is.

But F-35 even it is known is not that agile, very few countries know how good it is, in fact why Turkey went out of the F-35? simple they do not want S-400s know its real combat capabilities.

See the reality J-20 can be a super good aircraft or a complete fiasco but that will be clear until it goes to war, if it is good it will down F-35s if not well perhaps the Indians are right it is crap

 

[MiG-29SMT]

I don't know what's the source of your information but only Germany and France have dellusions of grandeur in Europe. All the other members of EU are closer to the US than to Germany and France.

all EU use the euro, basically Germany and France already rule, the bank is basic a German Bank, Germany rules Europe

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[IndiaRising]

203 pages but nobody asks a critical question. how is a fighter jet with canards regarded as stealth? canards= more reflecting surfaces on radar.

 

[asianobserve]

all EU use the euro, basically Germany and France already rule, the bank is basic a German Bank, Germany rules Europe

Study EU more. While the US lost top tier UK in the EU (the reason why the US is so against Brexit is that the UK is its top dog influencer in EU) all the rest, especially Eastern European and Baltic EU members are loyal to the US more than Germany and France.

 

[johnq]

The J-20s RCS is at least 2 orders of magnitude higher than the F-35, and most likely even worse, even in x band from the front (most likely 0.5 square meters or higher). This is due to its design flaws such as canards, joints and sharp corners, which are resonance hotspots, lack of decent, reliable RAM (due to limitations in materials technology) as well as radar/radome still being exposed to enemy radar (because CCP military has still not figured out how to hide them). Then there are the avionics and sensors of the J-20 which are several generations behind modern western avionics and sensors due to being copied from outdated, severely downgraded Russian technology from the 1990s. And the same holds true for J-20s weapons, which also have back-end technology copied from severely downgraded 1990s Russian technology. People think that if you just put together a bunch of T/R modules in the front that you have an advanced radar. But that is not enough, especially if the backend is based off of old technology. Which means that in any encounter with modern western platforms, the J-20 and its weapons will be jammed and disabled.
Beyond all this, the J-20 is still having major reliability issues due to weak, unreliable engine technology and other issues.

India’s Rafale fighter jets to be inducted today — Here’s how it stacks up against Chinese J-20 | Business Insider India

<ul><li>The Indian Air Force (IAF) will formally induct the newly acquired Rafale fighter jets today at its Ambala air base.</li><li>Here’s a comparison between China’s J-20 and India’s Rafale fighter jets</li><li>Rafale’s engine is better in terms of reliability, longevity and maintainability...

www.businessinsider.in

However, Retired Air Marshal R Nambiar, who tested the Rafale fighter jets for India, said, “Rafale is far superior to the J-20, the Chengdu fighter of China. Even though it’s believed to be a 5th generation fighter, it is probably at best a 3.5 generation aircraft.

Note that this assessment is by IAF leadership, who have had access to intelligence reports about the J-20s actual capabilities in terms of sensors, avionics, RCS management, emissions management, and engines. The J-20 is obsolete regarding all these things, as I have said above, and in any real combat vs modern western aircraft including Rafale, the J-20s goose will be cooked.
I think the CCP military has been drinking their own propaganda koolaid for too long. But it is also part of CCP military's psy ops/ 5th generation warfare to convince the enemy of the greatness of CCP military weapons in order to convince the enemy to give up without fighting.

 

[omaebakabaka]

To understand who leads the world you just need to see the high tech connections

Airbus and Boeing fly engines built in Europe and the USA.

Yielding is a big word but is not true.
Europe will lead because they are supranational governments. their 6th generation fighter is a multinational aircraft.

So i will put it simple Europe leads because represents globalization and the world government.
Their industry also are international monopolies.

Boeing and Airbus (F-35 is a multinational program) Eurofighter same same is Tiger Helo, why? it is cheaper to buy a binational product and a multinational product is much Cheaper.


Only Europe and the USA are 2 times the economy of China.

Europe and the USA will have at least 4 6th generation fighters.

Why? pooling resources on multinational programs alllow more expensive programs that would overwhelm a single nation.

Europe represents the world government as Airbus represents a world class aircraft industry.

F-35 production numbers are higher than J-20, why? simple many nations buy it

All you are pointing is established world leaders and both Boeing and Airbus are the work of countries and people that were generations of the past.....the current generation is living off of the fruits of the older generations and they will not be left alone to continue those traditions....its game over man. Just look at Germany and France, the supposed powers and their capitals are not safe, do you think innovation comes out of Chaos? Look at India, Brazil and so on....and then look at China, Japan, Korea and so on and even Russia now. As I said Europe will lead due to established positions and remnants of what is left but it wont thrive.....a globalist like you surely wont get the big picture even if it was in front of you.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

All you are pointing is established world leaders and both Boeing and Airbus are the work of countries and people that were generations of the past.....the current generation is living off of the fruits of the older generations and they will not be left alone to continue those traditions....its game over man. Just look at Germany and France, the supposed powers and their capitals are not safe, do you think innovation comes out of Chaos? Look at India, Brazil and so on....and then look at China, Japan, Korea and so on and even Russia now. As I said Europe will lead due to established positions and remnants of what is left but it wont thrive.....a globalist like you surely wont get the big picture even if it was in front of you.

The world government will come from Europe, Europe will also get the middle east.

Why? technology is getting more and more complex, economies are getting intertwined.

J-20 is a simple example, despite the Chinese look for being able to do everything, the reality is most advanced weapons are product of cooperation.

England and the USA shared technology in WWII, NATO is the same Jaguar, Tiger, Gripen, typhoon, Russia used to cooperate with Ukraine, Brazil cooperates with France and Sweden.


the DSI intake used on J-20 is an american invention, as most technologies it uses, however those were partially transfered by Chinese students in the USA, tech Transfer like Airbus China, Embraer China etc etc.

So why do you think Boeing cooperates with Japan in B-787? or why France and Russia cooperate in the engine for superjet.

The reality is Europe have the true tools to remain the world powers for a long time but globalization is also a Western economic model since 1600s.

The reality is a world government is coming, and Europe is leading it, the USA now is just the police of what is really a European elite lead block.

J-20 is an attempt of China to remain independent since its weapons are threats, but Germany, France, Italy, England or Spain can build an international 6th generation fighter that will be far far superior to what ever China has and Israel is also part of the western block.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

 

[omaebakabaka]

J-20 is an attempt of China to remain independent since its weapons are threats, but Germany, France, Italy, England or Spain can build an international 6th generation fighter that will be far far superior to what ever China has and Israel is also part of the western block.

No one is denying that west is current leader but its the future.....Japan can easily develop but they are strong armed not to build up. Once it takes off in India, you will see lot more creativity from us too...

 

[MiG-29SMT]

No one is denying that west is current leader but its the future.....Japan can easily develop but they are strong armed not to build up. Once it takes off in India, you will see lot more creativity from us too...

I like India, in my personal opinion upon what I have read, the world will be divided in economic zones, North America, is one, Latin america perhaps another, India and all its offshots will be another, no doubt India will rise and shine, but Europe is not dead as many wish and claim, Europe remains the leading zone because is not a nation, east asia will be perhaps another one, russia and its offshots like Belarus or Ukraine will be another.

But that is reflected in aerospace, J-20 shows if a nation is decided they can build an aerospace industry, but the reality is cooperation is needed because most aircraft are expensive and require technology that can not be manufacture locally, specially is you want higher production numbers.

F-35 will be produced very likely in higher number than J-20 or Su-57.

Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen are closing the 1000 aircraft built, Chinas J-10 is not near, and Rafale is far more deadlier than J-10.


small nations can get higher manufacturing numbers pooling resources, Germany is less than 1/15th of the Chinese population but it has an aerosapce industry as capable as China thanks to work with France, Italy, Spain or England.

J-20 might get like F-22 200 fighters but the reality the burden of costs are high for such a reason countries share costs

 

[omaebakabaka]

I like India, in my personal opinion upon what I have read, the world will be divided in economic zones, North America, is one, Latin america perhaps another, India and all its offshots will be another, no doubt India will rise and shine, but Europe is not dead as many wish and claim, Europe remains the leading zone because is not a nation, east asia will be perhaps another one, russia and its offshots like Belarus or Ukraine will be another.

But that is reflected in aerospace, J-20 shows if a nation is decided they can build an aerospace industry, but the reality is cooperation is needed because most aircraft are expensive and require technology that can not be manufacture locally, specially is you want higher production numbers.

F-35 will be produced very likely in higher number than J-20 or Su-57.

Eurofighter, Rafale and Gripen are closing the 1000 aircraft built, Chinas J-10 is not near, and Rafale is far more deadlier than J-10.


small nations can get higher manufacturing numbers pooling resources, Germany is less than 1/15th of the Chinese population but it has an aerosapce industry as capable as China thanks to work with France, Italy, Spain or England.

J-20 might get like F-22 200 fighters but the reality the burden of costs are high for such a reason countries share costs

Europe tried to destroy itself two times and the world along with it and this time, they are going kaput by importing islamic nuts from everywhere.....does not take a genius to see the future here. At best most Euro trash countries will look like Turkey in 50 years....the innovation you are talking about will decline gradually. World itself will become shitty place and much worse than it is already...it is an idiots paradise already

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Europe tried to destroy itself two times and the world along with it and this time, they are going kaput by importing islamic nuts from everywhere.....does not take a genius to see the future here. At best most Euro trash countries will look like Turkey in 50 years....the innovation you are talking about will decline gradually. World itself will become shitty place and much worse than it is already...it is an idiots paradise already

It will not decline, culture and universities preserve knowledge, in fact Europe grew thanks to the generation of knowledge, industry works by innovation, is knowledge dependant, and investment dependant, international banking is dominated by European based banking.


Asia will definitively grow, rise but that is not the decline of Europe, or the USA, it is simply a stage of globalization, however the economic markets of Europe are reflected in Aibus and Eurofighter Typhoon.

J-20 is the result of Chinas rise in industrial and commercial growth, however it will not eclipse Europe, why you will ask? simple Europe is already a pan european government, is not german or French, it is European, those stages will occurr every where.


But since Europe already is more than 20 nations group, it is the beguining of world goverment and Airbus works the same way EADS too, so remember Europe and Israel work togather, their financial system will swallow the world earth.

J-20s will not be able to stop them, because international progranms indeed work better. Airbus will remain dominant and C919 is only flying in China, the JF-17 only Chinese fighter export does not even compare to Gripen.

J-20 is at least 10 years behind Europes technology considering engine development or avionics wise and Europe can develop stealth drones.

 

[lixun]

It will not decline, culture and universities preserve knowledge, in fact Europe grew thanks to the generation of knowledge, industry works by innovation, is knowledge dependant, and investment dependant, international banking is dominated by European based banking.


Asia will definitively grow, rise but that is not the decline of Europe, or the USA, it is simply a stage of globalization, however the economic markets of Europe are reflected in Aibus and Eurofighter Typhoon.

J-20 is the result of Chinas rise in industrial and commercial growth, however it will not eclipse Europe, why you will ask? simple Europe is already a pan european government, is not german or French, it is European, those stages will occurr every where.


But since Europe already is more than 20 nations group, it is the beguining of world goverment and Airbus works the same way EADS too, so remember Europe and Israel work togather, their financial system will swallow the world earth.

J-20s will not be able to stop them, because international progranms indeed work better. Airbus will remain dominant and C919 is only flying in China, the JF-17 only Chinese fighter export does not even compare to Gripen.

J-20 is at least 10 years behind Europes technology considering engine development or avionics wise and Europe can develop stealth drones.

Look at Europe after the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis, where GDP has stagnated and declined for 10 years

 

[lixun]

It will not decline, culture and universities preserve knowledge, in fact Europe grew thanks to the generation of knowledge, industry works by innovation, is knowledge dependant, and investment dependant, international banking is dominated by European based banking.


Asia will definitively grow, rise but that is not the decline of Europe, or the USA, it is simply a stage of globalization, however the economic markets of Europe are reflected in Aibus and Eurofighter Typhoon.

J-20 is the result of Chinas rise in industrial and commercial growth, however it will not eclipse Europe, why you will ask? simple Europe is already a pan european government, is not german or French, it is European, those stages will occurr every where.


But since Europe already is more than 20 nations group, it is the beguining of world goverment and Airbus works the same way EADS too, so remember Europe and Israel work togather, their financial system will swallow the world earth.

J-20s will not be able to stop them, because international progranms indeed work better. Airbus will remain dominant and C919 is only flying in China, the JF-17 only Chinese fighter export does not even compare to Gripen.

J-20 is at least 10 years behind Europes technology considering engine development or avionics wise and Europe can develop stealth drones.

The current policy of the Chinese government is to shift from the era of industrial capital to the era of financial capital. As for European industry and technology, I will give an example. The difference between China and Europe for gyroscopes and mechanical gyroscopes is at least 30 years, but electronic gyroscopes China and Europe are basically the same. With the progress of the fourth industrial revolution based on the Internet and electronic information, Europe will continue to be left behind

 

[lixun]

Europe tried to destroy itself two times and the world along with it and this time, they are going kaput by importing islamic nuts from everywhere.....does not take a genius to see the future here. At best most Euro trash countries will look like Turkey in 50 years....the innovation you are talking about will decline gradually. World itself will become shitty place and much worse than it is already...it is an idiots paradise already

Westerners think that they are leading by ideology, religion, and language. In fact, Westerners rely on organized violence. Easterners will always remember this in their hearts.