J20 Stealth Fighter

[sayareakd]

well JXX is moving fast, good for us, at least it will force our planners to think hard and fast.

BTW pls dont break JF 17 record, take your time in developing this, this is not for PAF, it is for PLA-AF.

 

[DaTang]

well JXX is moving fast, good for us, at least it will force our planners to think hard and fast.

BTW pls dont break JF 17 record, take your time in developing this, this is not for PAF, it is for PLA-AF.

Your planners ALWAYS THINK hard and fast, too hard and too fast episode N+1 should be their title.
Your planners and your people ARE good at thinking.

By the way of by the way, world records are very hard to break, such as those of Ajun and LCA. My questions, if a lengthy R and D turns out to be
something with a pathetic number of administrative orders, can it even be considered as a record.

 

[zhlee]

We, Vietnamese, always support Indian in all aspects. Vietnam-India has a very close relationship in Culture, Religion, and many other fields, so why did India and Vietnam not become allies?

If India beef Vietnam with nuclear technology, which prepare Vietnam an ability of enrichment Uranium to use on peaceful purposes, but also a foundation to produce nuke weapons for defense purposes when it is necessary under China's pressure or attack. Like Japan, they don't possess any nuke weapon, but they are capable to create nuke weapon with in 2 weeks if under nuke attack.

China beef Pakistan to control India's strength, so why not, India should beef Vietnam in the same way relieve India's burden in countering China.

Are you destroying Vietnamese?
This forum might be a good place for "peaceful" nuclear technology smuggling. And I think, at least once, Vietnamese supported China in all aspects.

 

[ersakthivel]

Are you destroying Vietnamese?
This forum might be a good place for "peaceful" nuclear technology smuggling. And I think, at least once, Vietnamese supported China in all aspects.

good you expect support people from who you invaded once. then there was the communist ideology. Now what is the ideology of china?

Then what is the name of china' snuclear co-operation you have with pak and north korea. It is what original smuggling.
However harder you try you cannot stop vietnam and india co operating.

 

[ersakthivel]

Your planners ALWAYS THINK hard and fast, too hard and too fast episode N+1 should be their title.
Your planners and your people ARE good at thinking.

By the way of by the way, world records are very hard to break, such as those of Ajun and LCA. My questions, if a lengthy R and D turns out to be
something with a pathetic number of administrative orders, can it even be considered as a record.

There is no point in producing fast junks that will become obsolete within a span of decade from the induction.

 

[ersakthivel]

It seems you're right Bergy, the radar suite that's been under evaluation on that Y8 platform seems to have been installed on a new J20 platform, seemingly J2003 even though no number's been painted on it yet

Y8 sensor suite test platform:

do people install radar suite outside? on the tarmak? ,under the open sky? seems strange. radars are installed only inside the production facility.stop making wishfull comments.Radar suits will be added only after all other parameters are tested. There is really no need to put a radar suit on the first or second prototype.

 

[nimo_cn]

There is no point in producing fast junks that will become obsolete within a span of decade from the induction.

As if there is a point in developing slow junks that will be obsolete before the development was finished..

 

[J20!]

do people install radar suite outside? on the tarmak? ,under the open sky? seems strange. radars are installed only inside the production facility.stop making wishfull comments.Radar suits will be added only after all other parameters are tested. There is really no need to put a radar suit on the first or second prototype.

Wishful comment? I post what can be proved, not what I want to be true, as is the case with many here including yourself.

Read again. As seen with pretty much all other development programs the first two airframes are used for basic flight testing only. There are no plans to put radar on them, ever. This is the THIRD prototype, and I'm sorry, is there something wrong with your eyes? Cant you see the new grey faceted randome? Or the wide open access panels with a radar in full view?

China Defense Blog: Third J-20 stealth aircraft prototype emerges.


The PAK FA's radar suite is installed on the ... umm, yeah, THIRD PROTOTYPE AS WELL. Healthy factual discussion I'll take any day, but denial on something as apparent and exposed to everyone as this, is just sad dude... Leave that to Armand.

 

[J20!]

j20
first airframe first flew: january 2011
second: may 2012
third: november-december 2012 ???

IF the third one does fly in the next month or two, which seems quite possible, we will be looking at second airframe flying 16 months after first and third airframe flying 22-23 months after first one.


pak fa
first airframe: 19 january 2010
second: 3 march 2011
third: 22 november 2011

pak fa programme had a second airframe fly 13-14 months after first and third one 22 months after first one.

f22
first flying prototype first flew: september 7, 1997
second flying proto flew: june 29, 1998
third flying proto flew: march 6, 2000
fourth flying proto flew: november 15, 2000
fifth flying proto flew: january 5, 2001
sixth proto flew: february 5, 2001
seventh proto flew: october 15, 2001
serial standard planes first flew in second half of 2002.

the f22 programme had second airframe fly 9-10 months after first one. the third airframe flew 31 months after first one.

f35
first flying proto: december 15, 2006
second flew: june 11, 2008
third: february 25, 2009
fourth: november 14, 2009
fifth: february 2, 2010
sixth: feb 7, 2010
seventh: april 20, 2010

f35 programme had a second airframe fly 18 months after the first. the third flew 26 months after first one.

 

[J20!]

There is no point in producing fast junks that will become obsolete within a span of decade from the induction.

It's called being on schedule, something that must be foreign to you after witnessing LCA, Kolkata, Vikramaditya, Arjun, Shivalik, Vikrant etc etc.

Stop being so bitter dude, you must be such a sore loser... Grow up...

 

[ersakthivel]

It's called being on schedule, something that must be foreign to you after witnessing LCA, Kolkata, Vikramaditya, Arjun, Shivalik, Vikrant etc etc.

Stop being so bitter dude, you must be such a sore loser... Grow up...

there is a limit to lying. Don't lie through your nose .No one will change or install radar on the tarmac. It is done inside the production facility.
'And that to only after 1000s of flight tests to validate other parameters.
If you don't know that go and ask some one actually involved with flight test program of fighters.

 

[huaxia rox]

So in your opinion any fighter that has long body and small wings is a very good one!!!

Is that all to the aerodynamics.I'm mesmerized.The poor thing does not have a proper engine, so nobody knows it's TWR .Also what are it's wingloadnig figures and sustained turning radius?

I'm sure without a proper engine even it's developers won't know that.

Looking at PAKFA and J-20 it seemsif you fly some airframe without final engine configuration, avionics, asea radar and call it stealth if you put some black paint on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Poor guys in ADA should follow this same phony trick and put black paint over LCA with some fancy shaping and they should claim it as their top secret stealth as soon as possible.

This circus called 5th gen is getting stranger these days!!!!!!!!!!

People who cannot develop engine ,radar,avionics,for JF-17 leaving the pakistanis begging all over the world for the same have suddenly become 5th gen stealth makers.

In my opinion ADA and DRDO have atleast finished a decent MMR with air to air mode,truly modern FBW and mission computers and avionics in much better way than the chinese.The chinese even now haven't finished WS engine.

.So if they put two kaveri engines that are now generating 150 kn with an airframe larger than LCA having the same aerodynamic features, incorporating internal bomb bays, and stealth shaping features,with canted tail fins, they are much closer to true 5th gen stealth than chinese and Russians.

But the NAPOLEANS and ALEXANDERS IN IAF wont allow it.They can swallow any russian junk with both eyes open but will set goals so high for AMCA ensuring it's delay as much as possible.

1 so tell me why when your Arihant cant even get a simple and PROPER nuclear reactor installed you people started calling it nuclear sub??? and i guess my shoes should also be called nuclear shoes because i just havnt been able to fit them with nuclear engines so far....i am sure i WILL do that in the future......IF i can....

2 and nobody knows all the figures of Arihant then why you are developing that thing???

3 and of course you are talking about LCA......like you have anything to do with T-50 besides funding.....like we can expect anything more than that from a nation that is going to import some unstealth old generation 3 fighter jet called Rafale and its techs.........

 

[DaTang]

There is no point in producing fast junks that will become obsolete within a span of decade from the induction.

Fast junk is still better than slow junks, am I wrong.

 

[ersakthivel]

That's quite an extra ordinary point of view.Where is the place for junks in today's airforce? getting shot down having junk specs in enemy territory wont be an exciting thought for the pilot. Better be slow and give him the finished product.

 

[ersakthivel]

1 so tell me why when your Arihant cant even get a simple and PROPER nuclear reactor installed you people started calling it nuclear sub??? and i guess my shoes should also be called nuclear shoes because i just havnt been able to fit them with nuclear engines so far....i am sure i WILL do that in the future......IF i can....

2 and nobody knows all the figures of Arihant then why you are developing that thing???

3 and of course you are talking about LCA......like you have anything to do with T-50 besides funding.....like we can expect anything more than that from a nation that is going to import some unstealth old generation 3 fighter jet called Rafale and its techs.........

If you get your source from ruppee news which quotes nuclear reactor is not installed on arihant then ,I wouldn't argue with it.
Remember the ruppee news says that one has to cut open the hull of nuclear sub to load fuel into it. Do you believe that bullshit too?

Without finessing the design of reactor navy would have never allowed it to be finalised. Navy is involved right from the start in this project, you must note. It is not easy to fool people in india. There is freedom of speech and no one can unload bullshit on general populace.
So all news comming out is credible.That's why project seems to drag.

In about 10 years time where tech will be improved to pinpoint your 5th gen j-20 with L band asea and IRST,,rafale will beat it every time,I promise you.

 

[DaTang]

If you get your source from ruppee news which quotes nuclear reactor is not installed on arihant then ,I wouldn't argue with it.
Remember the ruppee news says that one has to cut open the hull of nuclear sub to load fuel into it. Do you believe that bullshit too?

Without finessing the design of reactor navy would have never allowed it to be finalised. Navy is involved right from the start in this project, you must note. It is not easy to fool people in india. There is freedom of speech and no one can unload bullshit on general populace.
So all news comming out is credible.That's why project seems to drag.

In about 10 years time where tech will be improved to pinpoint your 5th gen j-20 with L band asea and IRST,,rafale will beat it every time,I promise you.

Okay, this is the latest not so rupee news which dated back to Aug 7, but after that, still nothing happened.
India's First Nuclear Submarine Set for Trials | Defense News | defensenews.com
I believe you people just love future tense and words suggesting future, such as "will, be going to, set to, is expected, towards"etc, etc. By the way, if you have never successfully made a conventional submarine, how can you persuade people your nuclear submarine will be a successful one. Aussies ever claimed they make their own conventional subs, but just a few years passed by, they found their sub broken like a piece of junk. Indians are smarter than aussies, I am sure, but does indian have Austrailian's infrastructure and industry? that is something for you to ponder upon.

Promise in vain is a lie, don't you agree.

 

[ice berg]

Okay, this is the latest not so rupee news which dated back to Aug 7, but after that, still nothing happened.
India's First Nuclear Submarine Set for Trials | Defense News | defensenews.com
I believe you people just love future tense and words suggesting future, such as "will, be going to, set to, is expected, towards"etc, etc. By the way, if you have never successfully made a conventional submarine, how can you persuade people your nuclear submarine will be a successful one. Aussies ever claimed they make their own conventional subs, but just a few years passed by, they found their sub broken like a piece of junk. Indians are smarter than aussies, I am sure, but does indian have Austrailian's infrastructure and industry? that is something for you to ponder upon.

Promise in vain is a lie, don't you agree.

Dont feed the troll...... Now he will ruin this thread too.

 

[ersakthivel]

Okay, this is the latest not so rupee news which dated back to Aug 7, but after that, still nothing happened.
India's First Nuclear Submarine Set for Trials | Defense News | defensenews.com
I believe you people just love future tense and words suggesting future, such as "will, be going to, set to, is expected, towards"etc, etc. By the way, if you have never successfully made a conventional submarine, how can you persuade people your nuclear submarine will be a successful one. Aussies ever claimed they make their own conventional subs, but just a few years passed by, they found their sub broken like a piece of junk. Indians are smarter than aussies, I am sure, but does indian have Austrailian's infrastructure and industry? that is something for you to ponder upon.

Promise in vain is a lie, don't you agree.

how many nuclear weapons,space launches and moon missions AUSSIE achieved?
Do the have 5000 km nuclear ballistic missiles like AGNI?
So how do you compare the aussie and indian infra in the above fields?
Post some sensible stuff.People posting here browse 100s of other sites and exposure to much more credible news source than you can ever imagine.Be careful before accusing the other guy.

Dpoes that say the submarine was fielded without reactor?

The INS Arihant is to be the first of the expected five in the class of submarines designed and constructed as a part of the Indian Navy's secretive Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) Project. The submarine is reported to be similar to the Russian Charlie-II class submarine, which India leased from the Soviet Union between 1988 and 1991.[3] Arihant will be more of "a technology demonstrator", rather than a fully operational SSBN according to Admiral Verma.

The vessel will be powered by an 80 MW pressurized water reactor with enriched uranium fuel.[5] A land-based prototype of the reactor was first built at Kalpakkam and made operational in September 2006. Successful operation over a period of three years yielded the data that enabled the production version for Arihant.[6][7] It was reported that a 80MW nuclear reactor was integrated into the hull of the ATV in January 2008.

Defense Professionals Daily claimed Arihant was launched without key systems including its nuclear reactor, surveillance equipment, and ordnance.

It was the claim of the above daily that the arihant was launched without a reactor.Not the official version or the gospel of truth.That's what I said to contradict someone that the arihant was launched without a reactor.

Indias Nuclear Sub Doesnt Have Working Reactor Yet

The scientist said several steps are involved after achieving criticality and the reactor must be fully tested before it is sent to the sea. Integrating the ballistic or cruise missiles will take time and a few more years are needed to prove the platform and its systems, first in harbour, then at sea and lastly, under water, at increasing depths.

"Therefore, announcement of India's entry into the nuclear submarine club with a half-baked product without the nuclear reactor -- let alone the weapons systems -- is perhaps premature," the scientist said.

"After all the project had remained under wraps for over 20 years and another few years would not have made a difference."

In contrast, although India was the fifth country to set up a nuclear reprocessing plant in 1964 even before Germany and China, the late Homi Bhabha, father of Indian atomic energy programme, announced the achievement only after it was commissioned and started to produce plutonium, he pointed out.

Nataraja Sarma, former BARC physicist and co-author of "Nuclear Power in India: A Critical History", says it makes safety sense to first check out the seaworthiness of the basic submarine without the reactor core and then assemble the reactor.

"Once big components like reactor vessel, heat exchangers and the lead shielding (for protecting crew from radiation) are transferred to the submarine before closing its shell, the remaining smaller components including the fuel assembly can be introduced later to complete the construction," he said.

Arihant is far from reaching operational status but the coconut breaking that released it from the Visakhapatnam dry dock was nevertheless an important day for India, the scientists say.

"What is significant about the launch is that now India has publicly acknowledged its quest to acquire a nuclear submarine and has shown it has the ability to design and build such a platform," Uday Bhaskar, a former naval commander and now head of the National Maritime Foundation, is quoted as saying in the journal.

first the un named scientist's claim was quoted ,then the official reaction from NATARAJAN BARC scientist was put forth.

"Once big components like reactor vessel, heat exchangers and the lead shielding (for protecting crew from radiation) are transferred to the submarine before closing its shell, the remaining smaller components including the fuel assembly can be introduced later to complete the construction," he said.


no bud head needs to cut open the shell for that.

The land based model was working perfectly for years.So what issues are you expecting from the reactor?


And the officials expect the reactor to go critical in months.

no one launches he first nuclear sub with all system ready, armaments and other systems are fit latter only.That doesnot mean there is no reactor inside.

The core containing fuel rods wont go critical before afew months from the launch,that was the official press release.

then people are saying it has no reactor no armaments,etc,etc using the statements to fit their own perspective.

India already builds submarines here.Do you think it has taken us 60 years to launch a empty steel tube?

SO all un named scientists are the most credible source!!!!!!

and I am a troll.

I and every one else in india know the real stage of the project as it is a free country and no one censors facebook here.
People who don't have the self confidence to let their citizens browse the web freely are naming who is a troll and who is not.

Surely ADA cannot palm off the LCA to IAf like the way you dumped your JF-17 on pak with no radar, no avionics, no chinese engine, in india.

You don't need to turn this J-20 thread into LKG class type"SEE THE PICTURES AND NARRATE YOUR OWN STORY" period of creative thinking.


Meanwhile you guys blithely go on saying that people install radars on a prototype under open skies on the tarmak!!!!! and every one has to bow their head in deference it seems!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go to RAFALE thread and see for yourself how asea radar is fitted on the nose cone

go to page-13and post no 187 of rafale thread in this forum to see how asea looks
.
.How can that big an asea radar which almost always occupies the entire radom dia fitted from sideways that too on the tarmak?

May be it is the first time in your life that you are seeing aircrafts fitted with asea radr.

 

[ersakthivel]

Dont feed the troll...... Now he will ruin this thread too.

SO Ice berg has done a doctorate on trolls ruining the thread.
in your opinion people fit sophisticated ASEA or PESA radar on a prototype out side the tarmak on the airbase!!!!1 it seems.
Why don't they take the J-20 inside the production facility ,put the radar and then let it fly?

 

[J20!]

there is a limit to lying. Don't lie through your nose .No one will change or install radar on the tarmac. It is done inside the production facility.
'And that to only after 1000s of flight tests to validate other parameters.
If you don't know that go and ask some one actually involved with flight test program of fighters.

Hahaha!

1. Isn't English supposed to be your first language? The expression is: "lie through your teeth" not your nose...

2. I can't decide whether watching you grasping at straws to avoid facts is entertaining or tragic. Stop acting retarded and use common sense. I never said they were installing it. I typed: "INSTALLED"... PAST tense. If they were installing it in that video, the whole randome would be removed. That's the whole point of access panels genius, to work on a system without removing it completely from the jet.

The radar is right there in the picture!!! Why are you denying the existence of something we can all see? Your inferiority complex is astounding...

3. 1000's of flight tests? Why would you need 1000's of flight tests for basic airframe testing? The PAK FA programme marked 100 flight tests last November, are you saying that in the 11 months between then and now they've logged over 1900 flights?

Take-off Magazine : Third PAK FA entering flight tests in Moscow Region

1000's of test flights would be needed for the entire programme. And forgive me, but why are you skipping the fact that the PAK FA programme also has a radar suite testing on the THIRD prototype as is the case with the J20 flight test programme?

while laughing at you's been a hoot n a half, I've got better things to do... *officially added to my ignore list*