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Buy the designers! simple as that.
J20 Stealth Fighter
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black eagle
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An End to America's Air Invincibility?
China's new stealth fighter jet likely to reshape U.S. military strategy in Asia.
The era of dog fights was supposed to be over. In future wars, American pilots no longer would have to make like Tom Cruise in Top Gun, maneuvering for that kill shot against enemy aircraft. Instead, the nearly radar-invisible Boeing F-22 Raptor, first produced in 2005, would allow American pilots to shoot down an enemy jet from 50 miles away, before the opposing pilot could see even a speck on his screen. But that dream of the easy score was dashed this month, after China introduced its own stealth fighter jet, the J-20.
The test flight of the new aircraft came just as Defense Secretary Robert Gates met with Chinese President Hu Jintao in Beijing to discuss resuming military ties. No one had told Gates the test was planned and he was surprised by what appeared to be a thinly-veiled message about the future balance of power. Hu said that the timing was a coincidence, and that he himself didn't know the test flight was scheduled. He will get a chance to elaborate when he meets with President Obama in Washington this week. But Bonnie Glaser, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic International Studies told NEWSWEEK: "I don't buy it. It's not plausible to me that a new weapons system could be test-flown without Hu's knowledge. The Chinese are sending a signal that they"¦are still concerned about U.S. power in the region."
Although no J-20 will be flying into battle for at least a decade, the jet's potential could help change the military dynamic in East Asia, a region already undergoing huge shifts, says Wei Liang, a research fellow at the Monterey Institute of International Studies, in California. As photos of China's new aircraft circulated on the internet, analysts noted its resemblance to America's F-22. The flat surfaces, without weapons jutting out, would help it slip past American or Taiwanese radar undetected, says Nate Hughes, director of military analysis at STRATFOR, a security research firm.
The test flight puts China in a very elite club. America is the only nation to produce an operational stealth fighter jet, and Russia is the only other country to even test one. China's entry into that group amounts to a game changer. "We have become accustomed to a world where our air power is dominant," says Roger Cliff, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corporation, a global analysis company. "But that dominance is now in question."
America is not preparing to go to war with China. And China's leaders have emphasized that they seek a "peaceful ascent," as the nation develops economically. Still, the perceptions of relative military strength, and even just the hypothetical possibility of a war, have the potential to shape policies on issues such as Taiwan and North Korea. The new plane means that if there were a war, the Chinese could put up a real fight against American stealth fighter jets. If both sides had radar-proof aircraft, American pilots could have to resort to old-fashioned dog fights, which would mean some of their planes almost certainly would be shot down. "The Chinese are now saying to the U.S. 'we are not getting pushed around anymore. You are going to have to deal with us on the basis of comparable peers,' " says Cliff.
The huge advantage that radar-invisibility brings is crucial to American pilots in East Asia, because in any future battle with China they are very likely to be severely outnumbered. True, the United States has air bases in Japan and South Korea, along with as many as three aircraft carriers in the region at any one time. But all told, America could bring only 200 fighter planes to the battle, says Cliff. (More jets could be brought in from Hawaii, but that would take several weeks.) That compares unfavorably with the 2,000 fighter planes that China would be able to send into the skies in a matter of hours.
Given the overwhelming disparity in numbers, American air strategy in the region relies on one F-22 pilot being able to take down multiple Chinese jets without getting hit. "What we need is to be able to put 25 jets in the air and take down 75 of theirs, without many losses," says Cliff. "But it's just not going to be that one-sided anymore."
The timing of the aircraft's release seemed an unsubtle wave at the Taiwan issue. Gates's visit came a year after the Chinese ended military ties with the U.S., to protest the Pentagon's sale of $6.4 billion in arms to Taipei. Though tensions haven't flared over the island nation--which China insists is part of its territory --in recent months, air power is a key to Taiwan's ability to deter any potential Chinese invasion. "If hypothetically China wants to punish Taiwan, it is going to use ballistic missiles and then follow up with a second strike from the air to make sure Taiwan's air force stays grounded," says Michael McDevitt, a retired Navy rear admiral who oversaw an aircraft-carrier battle group and who is vice president of the CNA Center for Naval Analyses, in Virginia. Fortunately, neither China nor the United States is beating the drum for a fight over Taiwan. But China is now moving into the major leagues of air power. And that could reshape China-U.S. relations in the coming decade.
http://www.newsweek.com/2011/01/18/an-end-to-america-s-air-invincibility.html
China's new stealth fighter jet likely to reshape U.S. military strategy in Asia.
The era of dog fights was supposed to be over. In future wars, American pilots no longer would have to make like Tom Cruise in Top Gun, maneuvering for that kill shot against enemy aircraft. Instead, the nearly radar-invisible Boeing F-22 Raptor, first produced in 2005, would allow American pilots to shoot down an enemy jet from 50 miles away, before the opposing pilot could see even a speck on his screen. But that dream of the easy score was dashed this month, after China introduced its own stealth fighter jet, the J-20.
The test flight of the new aircraft came just as Defense Secretary Robert Gates met with Chinese President Hu Jintao in Beijing to discuss resuming military ties. No one had told Gates the test was planned and he was surprised by what appeared to be a thinly-veiled message about the future balance of power. Hu said that the timing was a coincidence, and that he himself didn't know the test flight was scheduled. He will get a chance to elaborate when he meets with President Obama in Washington this week. But Bonnie Glaser, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic International Studies told NEWSWEEK: "I don't buy it. It's not plausible to me that a new weapons system could be test-flown without Hu's knowledge. The Chinese are sending a signal that they"¦are still concerned about U.S. power in the region."
Although no J-20 will be flying into battle for at least a decade, the jet's potential could help change the military dynamic in East Asia, a region already undergoing huge shifts, says Wei Liang, a research fellow at the Monterey Institute of International Studies, in California. As photos of China's new aircraft circulated on the internet, analysts noted its resemblance to America's F-22. The flat surfaces, without weapons jutting out, would help it slip past American or Taiwanese radar undetected, says Nate Hughes, director of military analysis at STRATFOR, a security research firm.
The test flight puts China in a very elite club. America is the only nation to produce an operational stealth fighter jet, and Russia is the only other country to even test one. China's entry into that group amounts to a game changer. "We have become accustomed to a world where our air power is dominant," says Roger Cliff, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corporation, a global analysis company. "But that dominance is now in question."
America is not preparing to go to war with China. And China's leaders have emphasized that they seek a "peaceful ascent," as the nation develops economically. Still, the perceptions of relative military strength, and even just the hypothetical possibility of a war, have the potential to shape policies on issues such as Taiwan and North Korea. The new plane means that if there were a war, the Chinese could put up a real fight against American stealth fighter jets. If both sides had radar-proof aircraft, American pilots could have to resort to old-fashioned dog fights, which would mean some of their planes almost certainly would be shot down. "The Chinese are now saying to the U.S. 'we are not getting pushed around anymore. You are going to have to deal with us on the basis of comparable peers,' " says Cliff.
The huge advantage that radar-invisibility brings is crucial to American pilots in East Asia, because in any future battle with China they are very likely to be severely outnumbered. True, the United States has air bases in Japan and South Korea, along with as many as three aircraft carriers in the region at any one time. But all told, America could bring only 200 fighter planes to the battle, says Cliff. (More jets could be brought in from Hawaii, but that would take several weeks.) That compares unfavorably with the 2,000 fighter planes that China would be able to send into the skies in a matter of hours.
Given the overwhelming disparity in numbers, American air strategy in the region relies on one F-22 pilot being able to take down multiple Chinese jets without getting hit. "What we need is to be able to put 25 jets in the air and take down 75 of theirs, without many losses," says Cliff. "But it's just not going to be that one-sided anymore."
The timing of the aircraft's release seemed an unsubtle wave at the Taiwan issue. Gates's visit came a year after the Chinese ended military ties with the U.S., to protest the Pentagon's sale of $6.4 billion in arms to Taipei. Though tensions haven't flared over the island nation--which China insists is part of its territory --in recent months, air power is a key to Taiwan's ability to deter any potential Chinese invasion. "If hypothetically China wants to punish Taiwan, it is going to use ballistic missiles and then follow up with a second strike from the air to make sure Taiwan's air force stays grounded," says Michael McDevitt, a retired Navy rear admiral who oversaw an aircraft-carrier battle group and who is vice president of the CNA Center for Naval Analyses, in Virginia. Fortunately, neither China nor the United States is beating the drum for a fight over Taiwan. But China is now moving into the major leagues of air power. And that could reshape China-U.S. relations in the coming decade.
http://www.newsweek.com/2011/01/18/an-end-to-america-s-air-invincibility.html
black eagle
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Stealthy Chinese J-20 Vulnerable
China's newest combat aircraft prototype, the J-20, will require an intense development program if it is going to catch up with fast-moving anti-stealth advances.
In fact, anti-stealth will bring into question all stealth designs: How much invulnerability will current low-observability techniques offer as air defense systems adopt larger and more powerful active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radars? From the early days of AESA development, a key goal was to build a radar that could detect very small objects—such as a cruise missile at a distance great enough to target and shoot it down—or a larger object like a fighter with a very low-observable treatment.
Airborne detection of stealth aircraft may already be an operational capability. In a series of tests at Edwards AFB, Calif., in 2009, Lockheed Martin's CATbird avionics testbed—a Boeing 737 that carries the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter's entire avionics system—engaged a mixed force of F-22s and Boeing F-15s and was able to locate and jam F-22 radars, according to researchers. Raytheon's family of X-band airborne AESA radar—in particular, those on upgraded F-15Cs stationed in Okinawa—can detect small, low-signature cruise missiles.
Moreover, Northrop Grumman's lower-frequency, L-band AESA radar on Australia's Wedgetail airborne early warning and control aircraft is larger and potentially more capable of detecting stealth aircraft at longer ranges.
Lockheed Martin also hinted at a JSF anti-stealth capability in 2009 in a reference to combat with sophisticated, foreign aircraft. "The F-35's avionics include onboard sensors that will enable pilots to strike fixed or moving ground targets in high-threat environments, day or night, in any weather, while simultaneously targeting and eliminating advanced airborne threats," said Dan Crowley, then-executive vice president and F-35 program general manager.
Better images emerging from China point clearly to the J-20's use of stealth technology, but major uncertainties and questions remain unresolved.
The overall shape resembles that of the F-35 and F-22, which have a single "chine line" uniting the forebody, upper inlet lips, and wing and canard edges with a curved surface above that line and flat, canted body surfaces below it. The wing and canard edges are aligned: The wing and canard leading edges are parallel and the trailing edge of each canard is aligned with the opposite wing's trailing edge. The same basic philosophy also has been adopted in British, Swedish and Japanese studies for stealth fighters.
The aim in all cases is to endow a practical, agile fighter configuration with a "bow-tie" radar signature, with the smallest signature around the nose and the greatest (still much lower than that of a conventional aircraft with curved or vertical-slab sides) to the side. The fighter's mission planning system, using a database of known radar locations, then derives a "blue line" track that weaves between radars and avoids exposing the side-on signature to those radars more than transiently.
The "diverterless" supersonic inlet avoids a signature problem caused by a conventional boundary layer diverter plate. For example, the F-22 has a conventional inlet, which is likely to require extensive radar absorbent material (RAM) treatment.
The biggest uncertainty about the Chinese design concerns the engine exhausts, which as seen on the prototype are likely to cause a radar cross-section (RCS) peak from the rear aspect. One possibility is that a stealthier two-dimensional nozzle will be integrated later in the program; however, the nozzles on the current aircraft show some signs of RCS-reducing sawtooth treatment, suggesting that the People's Liberation Army has accepted a rear-aspect RCS penalty rather than the much greater weight and complexity of 2D nozzles
Other features are less clear. Stealth development has been dogged by detail-design challenges. All the antennas on the aircraft have to be flush with the skin and covered with surfaces that retain stealth properties while being transparent in a specific frequency. Maintainability becomes a complex tradeoff: Some systems requiring frequent attention will be accessed via landing gear and weapon bays, and others by latched and actuated doors that can open and close without affecting RCS—but the latter involves a weight penalty.
Perhaps the toughest hurdle is managing radio-frequency surface currents over the skin. Early stealth designs used heavy, maintenance-intensive RAM. The F-22 introduced a much lighter surface treatment, but it has proven unexpectedly difficult to maintain, causing corrosion issues. Lockheed Martin now asserts that the F-35 will be robust and affordable to maintain in service, with a combination of a high-toughness, sprayed-on topcoat and a conductive layer cured into composite skin panels.
The Chengdu J-20 design has struck many analysts and observers as familiar and somewhat different from the F-22, F-35 or Sukhoi T-50.
"The J-20 is reminiscent of the Russian MiG-1.42 both in terms of planform and also with regard to the rear fuselage configuration," says Douglas Barrie, senior fellow for military aerospace at London's International Institute for Strategic Studies. "The most obvious difference is the greater forward fuselage shaping as the basis for low-observable characteristics, along with the different engine intake configuration. The MiG program was canceled by the Russian government around 1997," he notes. However, the similarity to the MiG concept may suggest some collusion with the Russian aviation industry.
The J-20 made its first flight shortly before 1 p.m. Beijing time on Jan. 11. The flight ended three weeks of anticipation that began in late December when the new design started taxi tests.
The discussion about the program will now shift to the aircraft's mission (fighter or, more likely, long-range strike), sensors (strike missions would require a high-resolution, long-range radar) and communications (which would demand high-speed data links and sophisticated integration).
Conventional radars have only one-half to one-third of the range of an AESA radar. Moreover, the movement of a conventional, mechanically scanned radar antenna provides a tell-tale glint of radio-frequency reflections to enemy aircraft with advanced radars. Such reflections undercut the effectiveness of a stealth airframe. China is known to be pursuing newer radar technology.
"It's too early to tell the true status of the Chinese AESA program," says a Washington-based intelligence official. "We've seen lots of press and air show information on the program, but that doesn't automatically translate into a robust development or give us an accurate look at where [China] is as far as fielding one anytime soon.
"Like the [high-performance] engine, it'll be a challenge to take the step from older radars to one designed for a fifth-generation fighter," he says. "Again, though, the J-20 is just the first or second—depending on whom you believe—prototype in a very long development program."
If the Chinese conduct a few months of flight tests and there are no more aircraft involved in the program, this might indicate that the J-20 is a proof-of-concept or technical demonstrator. If there are several aircraft eventually, a prototype program would be a more likely conclusion.
The flight occurred during a visit to China by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who says Chinese President Hu Jintao confirmed the event to him in talks. However, Gates still believes the U.S. will retain a preponderance of stealth fighters through 2025.
China's newest combat aircraft prototype, the J-20, will require an intense development program if it is going to catch up with fast-moving anti-stealth advances.
In fact, anti-stealth will bring into question all stealth designs: How much invulnerability will current low-observability techniques offer as air defense systems adopt larger and more powerful active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radars? From the early days of AESA development, a key goal was to build a radar that could detect very small objects—such as a cruise missile at a distance great enough to target and shoot it down—or a larger object like a fighter with a very low-observable treatment.
Airborne detection of stealth aircraft may already be an operational capability. In a series of tests at Edwards AFB, Calif., in 2009, Lockheed Martin's CATbird avionics testbed—a Boeing 737 that carries the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter's entire avionics system—engaged a mixed force of F-22s and Boeing F-15s and was able to locate and jam F-22 radars, according to researchers. Raytheon's family of X-band airborne AESA radar—in particular, those on upgraded F-15Cs stationed in Okinawa—can detect small, low-signature cruise missiles.
Moreover, Northrop Grumman's lower-frequency, L-band AESA radar on Australia's Wedgetail airborne early warning and control aircraft is larger and potentially more capable of detecting stealth aircraft at longer ranges.
Lockheed Martin also hinted at a JSF anti-stealth capability in 2009 in a reference to combat with sophisticated, foreign aircraft. "The F-35's avionics include onboard sensors that will enable pilots to strike fixed or moving ground targets in high-threat environments, day or night, in any weather, while simultaneously targeting and eliminating advanced airborne threats," said Dan Crowley, then-executive vice president and F-35 program general manager.
Better images emerging from China point clearly to the J-20's use of stealth technology, but major uncertainties and questions remain unresolved.
The overall shape resembles that of the F-35 and F-22, which have a single "chine line" uniting the forebody, upper inlet lips, and wing and canard edges with a curved surface above that line and flat, canted body surfaces below it. The wing and canard edges are aligned: The wing and canard leading edges are parallel and the trailing edge of each canard is aligned with the opposite wing's trailing edge. The same basic philosophy also has been adopted in British, Swedish and Japanese studies for stealth fighters.
The aim in all cases is to endow a practical, agile fighter configuration with a "bow-tie" radar signature, with the smallest signature around the nose and the greatest (still much lower than that of a conventional aircraft with curved or vertical-slab sides) to the side. The fighter's mission planning system, using a database of known radar locations, then derives a "blue line" track that weaves between radars and avoids exposing the side-on signature to those radars more than transiently.
The "diverterless" supersonic inlet avoids a signature problem caused by a conventional boundary layer diverter plate. For example, the F-22 has a conventional inlet, which is likely to require extensive radar absorbent material (RAM) treatment.
The biggest uncertainty about the Chinese design concerns the engine exhausts, which as seen on the prototype are likely to cause a radar cross-section (RCS) peak from the rear aspect. One possibility is that a stealthier two-dimensional nozzle will be integrated later in the program; however, the nozzles on the current aircraft show some signs of RCS-reducing sawtooth treatment, suggesting that the People's Liberation Army has accepted a rear-aspect RCS penalty rather than the much greater weight and complexity of 2D nozzles
Other features are less clear. Stealth development has been dogged by detail-design challenges. All the antennas on the aircraft have to be flush with the skin and covered with surfaces that retain stealth properties while being transparent in a specific frequency. Maintainability becomes a complex tradeoff: Some systems requiring frequent attention will be accessed via landing gear and weapon bays, and others by latched and actuated doors that can open and close without affecting RCS—but the latter involves a weight penalty.
Perhaps the toughest hurdle is managing radio-frequency surface currents over the skin. Early stealth designs used heavy, maintenance-intensive RAM. The F-22 introduced a much lighter surface treatment, but it has proven unexpectedly difficult to maintain, causing corrosion issues. Lockheed Martin now asserts that the F-35 will be robust and affordable to maintain in service, with a combination of a high-toughness, sprayed-on topcoat and a conductive layer cured into composite skin panels.
The Chengdu J-20 design has struck many analysts and observers as familiar and somewhat different from the F-22, F-35 or Sukhoi T-50.
"The J-20 is reminiscent of the Russian MiG-1.42 both in terms of planform and also with regard to the rear fuselage configuration," says Douglas Barrie, senior fellow for military aerospace at London's International Institute for Strategic Studies. "The most obvious difference is the greater forward fuselage shaping as the basis for low-observable characteristics, along with the different engine intake configuration. The MiG program was canceled by the Russian government around 1997," he notes. However, the similarity to the MiG concept may suggest some collusion with the Russian aviation industry.
The J-20 made its first flight shortly before 1 p.m. Beijing time on Jan. 11. The flight ended three weeks of anticipation that began in late December when the new design started taxi tests.
The discussion about the program will now shift to the aircraft's mission (fighter or, more likely, long-range strike), sensors (strike missions would require a high-resolution, long-range radar) and communications (which would demand high-speed data links and sophisticated integration).
Conventional radars have only one-half to one-third of the range of an AESA radar. Moreover, the movement of a conventional, mechanically scanned radar antenna provides a tell-tale glint of radio-frequency reflections to enemy aircraft with advanced radars. Such reflections undercut the effectiveness of a stealth airframe. China is known to be pursuing newer radar technology.
"It's too early to tell the true status of the Chinese AESA program," says a Washington-based intelligence official. "We've seen lots of press and air show information on the program, but that doesn't automatically translate into a robust development or give us an accurate look at where [China] is as far as fielding one anytime soon.
"Like the [high-performance] engine, it'll be a challenge to take the step from older radars to one designed for a fifth-generation fighter," he says. "Again, though, the J-20 is just the first or second—depending on whom you believe—prototype in a very long development program."
If the Chinese conduct a few months of flight tests and there are no more aircraft involved in the program, this might indicate that the J-20 is a proof-of-concept or technical demonstrator. If there are several aircraft eventually, a prototype program would be a more likely conclusion.
The flight occurred during a visit to China by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who says Chinese President Hu Jintao confirmed the event to him in talks. However, Gates still believes the U.S. will retain a preponderance of stealth fighters through 2025.
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Doesn't this show that the Russian MIG has its hands in design of J-20 which was discussed in another thread here???
BackToEast
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Badguy:
Fighter is not a boy's toy to show off.
bhramos
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US Lawmaker: China got J-20 Tech From Russia
WASHINGTON - CHINA got the technology for its first stealth fighter jet from Russia, a senior US lawmaker said on Tuesday, one week after the airplane apparently made its maiden flight.
'My understanding is that they built it on information that they received from Russia, from a Russian plane, that they were able to copy,' House Armed Services Committee Chairman Buck McKeon told reporters.
Mr McKeon, a Republican, said he hoped to 'hear more' on the issue from Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who was on a visit to Beijing when Chinese state media published photographs of the J-20 fighter in the skies over south-western China. According to the reports, which cited witnesses, the next-generation war jet - the existence of which highlights China's drive to modernise its military - made a 15-minute test flight before landing.
'We need to be looking at China, we need to be looking at North Korea, we need to be looking at Iran,' said Mr McKeon, who has given a sceptical greeting to Gates' plans for reductions in US military spending.
'That's what really concerns me when I look at the cuts, the potential cuts, that they're talking about for the defence budget. This is not a safe world,' said the lawmaker. -- AFP
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_625722.html
WASHINGTON - CHINA got the technology for its first stealth fighter jet from Russia, a senior US lawmaker said on Tuesday, one week after the airplane apparently made its maiden flight.
'My understanding is that they built it on information that they received from Russia, from a Russian plane, that they were able to copy,' House Armed Services Committee Chairman Buck McKeon told reporters.
Mr McKeon, a Republican, said he hoped to 'hear more' on the issue from Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who was on a visit to Beijing when Chinese state media published photographs of the J-20 fighter in the skies over south-western China. According to the reports, which cited witnesses, the next-generation war jet - the existence of which highlights China's drive to modernise its military - made a 15-minute test flight before landing.
'We need to be looking at China, we need to be looking at North Korea, we need to be looking at Iran,' said Mr McKeon, who has given a sceptical greeting to Gates' plans for reductions in US military spending.
'That's what really concerns me when I look at the cuts, the potential cuts, that they're talking about for the defence budget. This is not a safe world,' said the lawmaker. -- AFP
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_625722.html
AprilLyrics
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en,i think russia is really a generous country,right?
they gave their best technology to their huge neighbour.
why not just let the russians give some to india instead of buying the tech?
houde10000
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make your conclusion on the truth, not on your imagination
Even Mr. Gates didn't know the J20 before he arrived Beijing airport, and he blamed his CIA partner underestimated chinese military progress, so how come, a senior lawmaker, suddenly got so undoubted conclusion, J20 copied from Russian? CIA suddenly know everything? sound so rediculous.
Chinese have never had illusion about American, American are not enemy naturally, they just want whole world be tamed and knee in front of him. Chinese don't want to be and can not be american tamed puppy sucking american finger, so chinese spend 60 years effort to build their independent military industry, the spine bone can make them stand like man. Military industry is not any commerical bubble, that's 3 generation chinese hard working result.
I am not sure whether Indian are tamed puppy or not, maybe you like to be russian or american puppy, not chinese puppy, that's fine, at least you are puppy, chinese don't have to worry about you.
If you don't want to be anyone's puppy, then shut up the big mouth first, wear glove, work harder and harder. You can not buy a modern military industy, without an indepentant military industy, you can never be a real independant country. 30 billion dollars is definately not enough to compete with either of China, America and Russian, my question is: do you indian want to suffer the pain to pay more? No pain no gain, that is always true.
Even russian give you indian the whole blueprint of T50, can you make one? ask yourself, you know the answer!!!! Chinese is about 15~20 years behind American, about 5~10 years behind Russian, Chinese know it clearly, but you indian don't know you are behind chinese at least 10 years!!!
Mr. Bhramos and Singh,
Even Mr. Gates didn't know the J20 before he arrived Beijing airport, and he blamed his CIA partner underestimated chinese military progress, so how come, a senior lawmaker, suddenly got so undoubted conclusion, J20 copied from Russian? CIA suddenly know everything? sound so rediculous.
Chinese have never had illusion about American, American are not enemy naturally, they just want whole world be tamed and knee in front of him. Chinese don't want to be and can not be american tamed puppy sucking american finger, so chinese spend 60 years effort to build their independent military industry, the spine bone can make them stand like man. Military industry is not any commerical bubble, that's 3 generation chinese hard working result.
I am not sure whether Indian are tamed puppy or not, maybe you like to be russian or american puppy, not chinese puppy, that's fine, at least you are puppy, chinese don't have to worry about you.
If you don't want to be anyone's puppy, then shut up the big mouth first, wear glove, work harder and harder. You can not buy a modern military industy, without an indepentant military industy, you can never be a real independant country. 30 billion dollars is definately not enough to compete with either of China, America and Russian, my question is: do you indian want to suffer the pain to pay more? No pain no gain, that is always true.
Even russian give you indian the whole blueprint of T50, can you make one? ask yourself, you know the answer!!!! Chinese is about 15~20 years behind American, about 5~10 years behind Russian, Chinese know it clearly, but you indian don't know you are behind chinese at least 10 years!!!
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houde10000
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1) Indian has more close friendship with Russian, why indian have not got one 5G prototype from Russia? or you have already got one, but not smart enough to make one by yourself?
2) Jet engine is very complicated, need a long time tech accumulation, Russian and American both inherted Nazi German's jet tech after WWII, chinese jet engine start from 1960s, chinese has already caught up with russian and american theoretically, but still need improve the material and manufacturing process to make jet engine stable. Remind you, don't laugh at chinese, they are at same level as russian and american.
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The AL-31Fs they are using are interchangeable with the WS-10A. It is nothing compared to the AL-41F of the MiG 1.44. Taking a look at these sketches, I easily see where they got the idea.
[video=dailymotion;x58t2r]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x58t2r_mig-144-prototype_tech[/video]
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houde10000
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Mr. Armand2REP,
Thank you very much for the video, I have not seen those before, very cool.
I can not find the similarity between MIG1.44 and J20, they look totally different, the J20 more look like F22, not any russian 5G. I doubt chinese got russian 5G prototype, but I worry about the old news appeared in chinese forum couple of years ago: a jet fighter wreckage picture, look very like F22, the news said American F22 try to test chinese air defense system, and was shot down in Fujian province. Maybe chinese got something from that F22 wreckage?
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There was no F-22 flying over any part of China, nor was one shot down. That is the typical nonsense that goes on Chinese military forums. Stick around here and learn the truth.
The major difference between the MiG 1.44 and J-20 is the engine setup. Since Chengdu didn't have access to the more powerful AL-41F, it makes sense they did a different layout. The base design is the same.
houde10000
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Thank you again, I guess you have already talked to Mr. Gates, man, I trust you!
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You are wrong Lyulka had started work on jet engine long before. He based it on the compressor he built for the Soviet Bombers during the WW II era. He did not have the alloys nor the research funding from the Soviet when it was torn by the war. As the necessity was there the British engine was first used in the MiG 15. That is when the KGB helped bring in samples of the alloys from GB. After the West's embargo they were able to start work on the alloys again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkhip_Mikhailovich_Lyulka
All the modern turbofan designs are based on his studies. So just tell me who is advanced? China or Russia?
China's J-20 Fighter: Stealthy or Just Stealthy-Looking?
By Nathan Hodge
When the first grainy images of China's J-20 fighter appeared online, they seemed to confirm the fears of some China watchers: Beijing appeared to be on track to develop a "fifth generation" aircraft that featured the radar-eluding properties of advanced U.S. aircraft like the F-22 Raptor.
But exactly how stealthy is the J-20? And does it mean that China can challenge the U.S. for control of the skies?
In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, Richard Aboulafia, an aviation analyst with the Teal Group, an aerospace and defense consulting firm, said China is still years away from perfecting stealth aircraft.
"It's certainly stealthy-looking," Mr. Aboulafia said. It looks like it's got some of the faceting and some of the shaping that characterizes the front of the F-22, for example.
"But then you look the details and you realize this thing is just sort of cobbled together," he added.
Take, for instance, the canards: forewings close to the nose of the aircraft that provide maneuverability. According to Mr. Aboulafia, "There's no better way of guaranteeing a radar reflection and compromise of stealth" than adding canards to the aircraft.
The same goes for the engine nozzles, which Mr. Aboulafia said were clearly not designed to be stealthy, as well the large overall size of the aircraft.
Still, appearance of the J-20 prototype was a dramatic prelude to Chinese President Hu Jintao's visit to Washington this week. But Mr. Aboulafia said that China still lacks the command-and-control networks, aerial refueling capabilities and other systems that allow the U.S. to project air power around the globe.
What China does seem to be on track to produce, Mr. Aboulafia said, were aircraft that may eventually be on par with fighters like the F-22, which was designed by the U.S. in the 1980s.
"It's quite possible that in 10 years they have a functioning equivalent of the F-22, but by then, the West will have moved on to something far more impressive," he said.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/01/19/chinas-j-20-fighter-stealthy-or-just-stealthy-looking/
By Nathan Hodge
When the first grainy images of China's J-20 fighter appeared online, they seemed to confirm the fears of some China watchers: Beijing appeared to be on track to develop a "fifth generation" aircraft that featured the radar-eluding properties of advanced U.S. aircraft like the F-22 Raptor.
But exactly how stealthy is the J-20? And does it mean that China can challenge the U.S. for control of the skies?
In an interview with The Wall Street Journal, Richard Aboulafia, an aviation analyst with the Teal Group, an aerospace and defense consulting firm, said China is still years away from perfecting stealth aircraft.
"It's certainly stealthy-looking," Mr. Aboulafia said. It looks like it's got some of the faceting and some of the shaping that characterizes the front of the F-22, for example.
"But then you look the details and you realize this thing is just sort of cobbled together," he added.
Take, for instance, the canards: forewings close to the nose of the aircraft that provide maneuverability. According to Mr. Aboulafia, "There's no better way of guaranteeing a radar reflection and compromise of stealth" than adding canards to the aircraft.
The same goes for the engine nozzles, which Mr. Aboulafia said were clearly not designed to be stealthy, as well the large overall size of the aircraft.
Still, appearance of the J-20 prototype was a dramatic prelude to Chinese President Hu Jintao's visit to Washington this week. But Mr. Aboulafia said that China still lacks the command-and-control networks, aerial refueling capabilities and other systems that allow the U.S. to project air power around the globe.
What China does seem to be on track to produce, Mr. Aboulafia said, were aircraft that may eventually be on par with fighters like the F-22, which was designed by the U.S. in the 1980s.
"It's quite possible that in 10 years they have a functioning equivalent of the F-22, but by then, the West will have moved on to something far more impressive," he said.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/01/19/chinas-j-20-fighter-stealthy-or-just-stealthy-looking/
U.S. Lawmaker: China Got Stealth Technology from Russia
(Newsroom America) -- A U.S. lawmaker says China got the technology to build its first known stealth fighter from Russia, adding that Beijing remains "a concern" in a dangerous world.
"My understanding is that they built it on information that they received from Russia, from a Russian plane, that they were able to copy," said House Armed Services Chairman Buck McKeon, R-Calif.
McKeon said he hoped to be able to "hear more" on the issue from Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, who arrived in China for a visit Jan. 10, shortly after a test-flight of the Chinese plane, which is desinated the J-20.
Gates was in China when state media published photographs of the aircraft in flight in the southwest part of the country.
McKeon made his statements after being asked if China were able to obtain stealth technology through cyber-espionage.
"We need to be looking at China, we need to be looking at North Korea, we need to be looking at Iran," said McKeon, who is skeptical of Gates' plans to reduce military spending.
"That's what really concerns me when I look at the cuts, the potential cuts, that they're talking about for the defense budget. This is not a safe world," he said.
http://www.newsroomamerica.com/story/93578/u.s._lawmaker:_china_got_stealth_technology_from_russia.html
(Newsroom America) -- A U.S. lawmaker says China got the technology to build its first known stealth fighter from Russia, adding that Beijing remains "a concern" in a dangerous world.
"My understanding is that they built it on information that they received from Russia, from a Russian plane, that they were able to copy," said House Armed Services Chairman Buck McKeon, R-Calif.
McKeon said he hoped to be able to "hear more" on the issue from Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, who arrived in China for a visit Jan. 10, shortly after a test-flight of the Chinese plane, which is desinated the J-20.
Gates was in China when state media published photographs of the aircraft in flight in the southwest part of the country.
McKeon made his statements after being asked if China were able to obtain stealth technology through cyber-espionage.
"We need to be looking at China, we need to be looking at North Korea, we need to be looking at Iran," said McKeon, who is skeptical of Gates' plans to reduce military spending.
"That's what really concerns me when I look at the cuts, the potential cuts, that they're talking about for the defense budget. This is not a safe world," he said.
http://www.newsroomamerica.com/story/93578/u.s._lawmaker:_china_got_stealth_technology_from_russia.html
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