J20 Stealth Fighter

[badguy2000]

Taiwan questions China's stealth capability

2011/01/05 19:51:44

Taipei, Jan. 5 (CNA) The Ministry of National Defense (MND) indirectly confirmed Wednesday a lawmaker's assessment that China's research and development (R&D) capability as regards its the fifth-generation fighters is doubtful.

Pictures purporting to be of the prototype J-20 stealth fighter were posted on several websites after the U.S.-based Aviation Week magazine reported that the aircraft had been undergoing taxiing tests in late December at an airfield in Chengdu, western China.

The debut of the J-20 was announced in November 2009, but Shen I-ming, deputy defense minister in charge of intelligence, anwering questions from Legislator Lin Yu-fang of the ruling Kuomintang (KMT) before the Legislative Yuan's Foreign and Defense Committee, said the authenticity of the photos was questionable.

Shen confirmed that China has been developing its fifth-generation fighters but said the aircraft shown in the photos do not appear to be that system.

He said Taiwan's military has been gathering information on China's development of modernized weaponry but declined to go into detail.

Shen said he agreed with Lin's assessment and previous reports from Russian news agency RIA Novosti that China's R&D capability in engines, radar and composite materials for the fifth-generation fighters "has a long way to go" before any major breakthroughs can be expected.

Local military observers have expressed concern that the Chinese stealth fighters, if they become operational, will put Taiwan's air force at a disadvantage, even if Taiwan upgrades its F-16 A/B fleet or acquires more advanced F-16 C/D fighters.

KMT Legislator Shuai Hua-min warned that regardless of China's results in developing such aircraft, there is no denying that China has been devoting a great deal of energy

well, there is a famous joke about the similiarity of Taiwan, India and S.korea in Mainland China.....

All the past were invented by Koreans;
All nowaday are under the control of Taiwan;
All in the future will be planned by India;

 

[p2prada]

There could be certain truth in the argument the Taiwanese present. The Chinese are said to be developing 2 fifth gen fighters, 1 meant for air superiority(perhaps called the J-16 or J-XX) while the one meant for strike(J-20) is what we have seen. Most commentators already argue that the J-20 is primarily a strike platform.

It is valid to suggest a fighter of a greater numerical designation during a single design cycle will be the strike fighter. Like F-15 and F-16, F-22 and F-35. The strike variant is given second priority. So, J-16 and J-20.

Also this comment....

Shen confirmed that China has been developing its fifth-generation fighters but said the aircraft shown in the photos do not appear to be that system.

....is very very important. The Taiwanese know there is a second prototype and that China has still not shown all its cards. A Deputy Minister is an official high enough to make such comments.

Today is supposed to be the day J-20 flies. Is there any truth to that rumour?

 

[black eagle]

more pics...

 

[black eagle]

 

[black eagle]

J-20 videos...

 

[badguy2000]

There could be certain truth in the argument the Taiwanese present. The Chinese are said to be developing 2 fifth gen fighters, 1 meant for air superiority(perhaps called the J-16 or J-XX) while the one meant for strike(J-20) is what we have seen. Most commentators already argue that the J-20 is primarily a strike platform.

It is valid to suggest a fighter of a greater numerical designation during a single design cycle will be the strike fighter. Like F-15 and F-16, F-22 and F-35. The strike variant is given second priority. So, J-16 and J-20.

Also this comment....


....is very very important. The Taiwanese know there is a second prototype and that China has still not shown all its cards. A Deputy Minister is an official high enough to make such comments.

Today is supposed to be the day J-20 flies. Is there any truth to that rumour?

there might be 2 stealth fighter projects which are on at the same time.

One is J20, the heavy fighter ,developed by Chengdu aircraft company;
the other is a mid-size lighter figher,devleoped by Shengyang Aircraft campanies. Its variety will replace J15 as the bird on Chinese aircraft carriers. Long ago, CD suggested that J15 in fact would just be a stopgap and would be replaced with one stealth 5G bird in one decade at most.

Besides, it is reported that Xi'an aircraft company is developing one stealth variety of JH7, JH7B.

 

[p2prada]

Besides, it is reported that Xi'an aircraft company is developing one stealth variety of JH7, JH7B.

2 projects are more than enough. So I wouldn't buy that for a chopstick.

I am guessing JH7B is more to do with signature reduction techniques similar to Mig-21 Bison. Take out unnecessary analog instruments, stick a good jammer and coat it with RAM. Export product. Not worth naming it in the thread belonging to a fifth gen fighter.

 

[badguy2000]

2 projects are more than enough. So I wouldn't buy that for a chopstick.

I am guessing JH7B is more to do with signature reduction techniques similar to Mig-21 Bison. Take out unnecessary analog instruments, stick a good jammer and coat it with RAM. Export product. Not worth naming it in the thread belonging to a fifth gen fighter.

guy, you are obviously confused at J7 and JH7.

JH7 is one big modern fighter bombers while J7 is one smaller outdated fighter.

here is JH7. JH7B would be a stealth striker&bomber.

 

[AprilLyrics]

more pics...

i'm curious about the defference between the ENGINE of the 1st/7th pic and other pics.
1st&7th r white while the others r black.
sb. says there r more than one aircraft.
sb. says it just changed the engine. ws15 and 117s.
sb. says the engine just has been painted white~

 

[Rahul92]

China stealth plane J-XX still 'years away', says Pentagon

The US is downplaying pictures which appear to show a working prototype of a Chinese stealth aircraft, invisible to radar.

The images - first published on websites - show what looks like a stealth fighter on a taxi run.

Beijing has not commented on whether the pictures - published ahead of US Defence Secretary Robert Gates' visit later this week - are genuine.

The Pentagon says China is still years away from deploying a stealth aircraft.

In late 2009 the deputy head of China's air force, General He Weirong, said the country's stealth fighter would be ready sometime between 2017 and 2019, reports said.

But US director of naval intelligence Vice Admiral David Dorsett said that it would be "years" before China's new fighter would be operational.

Photos of a possible Chinese-made stealth aircraft were discussed in China's state-run media


"Developing a stealth capability with a prototype and then integrating that into a combat environment is going to take some time," he said.

The leaked photos of the prototype aircraft first appeared on military websites and blogs. They were said to have been taken at the Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute.

The images were then discussed in the Chinese state-run Global Times newspaper, in both its Chinese and English-language editions, although no comment was made on their authenticity.

Japan's Asahi Shimbun newspaper said China could begin test flights of the stealth jet as soon as this month, citing unidentified Chinese military sources.
Military build-up

The world's only operational stealth fighter is the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor, but Russia is also known to be working on its own prototype.

BBC defence correspondent Nick Childs says the aircraft certainly bears a superficial resemblance to the latest US stealth designs - and that may spook some in Washington.

And it will add to the concerns of those who have been warning especially of the increasing reach and capabilities of China's air force and navy, he adds.

The US has been watching closely as China increases its military capacity - in particular, its development of a so-called "carrier killer" missile, a land-based system which could sink an aircraft carrier from up to 1,800 miles (2,900km) away.

US battle groups - including aircraft carriers - are stationed in the South China Sea.

And in August, the Pentagon reported that China had been expanding its nuclear arsenal and submarine force, as well as upgrading its land-based missiles.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12125566

 

[Rahul92]

China stealth plane J-XX still 'years away', says Pentagon visit this thread http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?t=17815&p=219062#post219062

 

[badguy2000]

When Yankees say you are something,it usually means you are nothing;
When Yankees say you are nothing, it usually means you are something!

 

[badguy2000]

i'm curious about the defference between the ENGINE of the 1st/7th pic and other pics.
1st&7th r white while the others r black.
sb. says there r more than one aircraft.
sb. says it just changed the engine. ws15 and 117s.
sb. says the engine just has been painted white~

perhaps two prototypes have different engines on

 

[LETHALFORCE]

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/05/j-20-stealth-fighter-jet-5-facts-about-chinas-new-stealth-plan/

J-20 Stealth Fighter Jet: 5 Facts About China's New Stealth Plane

Hard information is difficult to come by, since there are conflicting reports out of China on what might be the country's first fifth-generation fighter. Here's what we do know about the new stealth aircraft:

Chinese J-20 stealth fighter
Photos posted online appear to show a prototype of China's first stealth fighter jet.
1. It's still being tested
The prototype J-20 was allegedly tested today on a runway in central China. It still has to be tested in the air, but observers think that that could happen soon -- maybe even Thursday.

2. China seems to want us to know that they have it
Pictures allegedly showing the J-20 were apparently leaked to some Chinese media this week, either by authorities or by people who sneaked in to see the plane. But it hardly seems like a coincidence that this news comes just ahead of U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates' visit to Beijing, scheduled to begin Sunday.

3. It will be years before it's operational
This is just the first J-20, and it could be a long time before they work the kinks out and others are made, skeptics say. Some even think that the plane shown in the pictures is just a mock-up. It could be 2018 or even later before the plane is ready to be deployed.

4. It's bigger than the U.S. stealth planes
From the pictures, it looks like the J-20 may be larger than the U.S. stealth planes. Some speculate that that would allow it to carry more and fly longer. But it probably still won't be able to compete with the F-22 Raptor, the United States' fifth-generation stealth plane.

5. It's part of China's new military
The country has apparently been investing heavily in new military equipment so it can remain competitive with the United States and Russia. According to reports, China has an aircraft carrier in the works and is also developing anti-ship ballistic missiles.

 

[sayareakd]

let see chines history, they took about three years from the first test flight of FC-1 to start production, since China has already had experience with 4th generation they took just 3 years.(almost a record for any fighter in non war environment)

So that must be minimum time it will take them to come up with production of fighter (as per the previous track record). Max would be any time they complete the development of the same, remember they are still struggling with engine for 4th Generation aircraft.

4th Generation Engine is challenge for them.

 

[SpArK]

Threat analysis of Chengdu J-20 the chinese stealth fighter​

China recently showed the world its latest fighter aircraft in a typical Chinese way with the Govt media denying it but allowing Chinese hobbyist to upload images of the aircraft on the internet. According to latest reports the aircraft is carrying high speed taxi run and is expected to take to the skies anytime. A Chinese stealth aircraft will definitely change the balance in the region in favor to an extent in favor of China. Before we can analyze the implications we first need to analyze the aircraft.

Design: The J-20 is delta win canard configuration with V-Shape tail and has two S-Shaped DSI inlets. The aircraft is probably the biggest 5th Gen aircraft and is approximately 60-65 feet long. It has a bubble canopy similar to the F-22. Overall the aircraft uses Chinese experience on the J-10 and JF-17 in wing and inlets area. Most other aspects are taken from the success of the American F-22.

Threat: The aircraft is abnormally large in size which indicates that the aircraft will have high weapons and fuel payload capacity giving it long range and capacity to carry a lot more weapons than any other 5th Gen fighter. The nose is also well designed keeping in mind possibly large AESA radar. The overall design of the aircraft is very good and should make it much stealthier than the Russian PAK-FA (if it remains the way it is). The aircraft is stated to get a 180 kN capacity engine which will give it a decent kinematic performance. Chinese production capability is probably the best in the world, PLAAF can get hundreds J-20's within a very short span.

Weakness: The canards are not good to maintain a very low observability profile as they increase the RCS. The current prototype is most probably carrying avionics system developed for the current line of 4th Gen aircrafts which are not the most advance in the world. China still has long way to go in composite materials thus the aircraft will have much higher maximum take-off weight. This is followed by China's inability to build a reliable turbo-jet engines as it is yet to perfect a 90kN engine for the JF-17. Chinese designers have taken note of these deficiencies and have made the airframe suitably. The aircraft will carry a large payload of less sophisticated weapons rather than small number of highly sophisticated weapons, the aircraft has some 6 control surface (which includes the canard) and more fuel to burn to meet kinematic requirements and be somewhat comparably to the superior and better engineered American and Russian 5th Gen fighters. Also the aircraft is as good as its pilots and according to American, Japanese and Taiwanese assessments the Chinese pilots are not as skilled as American, Indian and Japanese pilots who have International exposure in air combat. Also the PLAAF is unproven force where as most of its adversaries are combat experienced.

IMPLICATION: In last few decades the aggressive behavior of the Chinese govt has made countries like US, Japan & South Korea to consider China as a military rival along with countries who already have a long standing border dispute (India, Vietnam & Taiwan). Most of these countries have a firm 5th generation Plans with South Korea and Japan considering the F-35. Japan is also developing its own 5th Gen Fighter for research purpose. US already have F-22 and the F-35 is in making. India is already committed to the Russian PAK-FA project and is also developing its own 5th Gen Fighter named AMCA. Meanwhile Vietnam is expected to be the first customer of the PAK-FA.




The J-20 will mostly enter service in the 2020 time frame and by than the PLAAF will have approximately 200 Chinese made Flanker series aircrafts along with some 500 J-10 series aircrafts. Most of the older inventory will be retired. The order for J-20 could well go above 500. However the US Navy will itself have some 700 Hornet series aircraft along with hundreds other much more advance fighters with her allies namely Taiwan, Japan and South Korea. India will also have about 600 advance 4th Gen aircrafts. So though the PLAAF air fleet is sizable it is still not comparably with a larger and much more advance American fleet and a smaller but a more advance Indian Fleet.

US & Allies: US and its allies are least likely to be affected by the J-20 because of their traditional technological and numerical superiority. Also the American F-22 and F-35JSF are technologically much more mature than the J-20. If US and China go to war post 2020 the Americans will still win but should take heavier loss than now and most of them would be caused by the J-20


India: India is likely to be affected by the Chinese J-20 as the IAF has smaller fleet of aircrafts and can suffer from reduced margin of safety with higher attrition. However India has an advantage with better 4th Gen fighters, advance weaponry and systems, better Pilots and experience. India also has an advantage with the single seater PAK-FA which is in advance stage of development. The Twin seater version will also enter service within the same time frame or before as it will be based on the single seater version. India also has added advantage of testing 5th gen avionics and subsystem on Tejas Mk-2 fighter and the PAK-FA which should reduce the development time of AMCA. India has taken note of the J-20 and has launched an official study on it. J-20 will affect India moderately.

Vietnam: Vietnam never had an advantage over the PLAAF as bulk of its fleet consists of older MiG-21's. J-20 will have most sever implication for Vietnam as its already obsolete air force will suffer even poorly in the hands of J-20. This could force Vietnam to order larger numbers of PAK-FA and possibly replace the MiG-21's with a better 4th Gen fighter.

Conclusion: J-20 is very promising start for China and the aircraft is designed well keeping in mind China's strength and weakness. J-20 will be a fighter to reckon with for China's adversaries. But the world should take J-20 as a natural step on its natural course which China has been taking for past decades. Also China should not consider the J-20 as the silver bullet which will give her global air dominance as that title will be shared by the American F-22 and the Russian-Indian PAK-FA/FGFA.





http://www.defenceaviation.com/2011/01/threat-analysis-of-chengdu-j-20-the-chinese-stealth-fighter.html

 

[p2prada]

guy, you are obviously confused at J7 and JH7.

JH7 is one big modern fighter bombers while J7 is one smaller outdated fighter.

here is JH7. JH7B would be a stealth striker&bomber.

ZZZ. I know the difference. You can't modify an old aircraft and call it VLO. It will see the same modifications as the Mig-21 Bison.

The JH7B will only be "stealthier" than the original JH7. It will involve a good radar, jammer and RAM coating. Nothing else. Come back when they plan on putting an internal weapons bay on it, then we will talk. Until then there is no point discussing about it.

i'm curious about the defference between the ENGINE of the 1st/7th pic and other pics.
1st&7th r white while the others r black.
sb. says there r more than one aircraft.
sb. says it just changed the engine. ws15 and 117s.
sb. says the engine just has been painted white~

I don't know who or what sb is, but both engines are the same. Perhaps a modified AL-31F or the actual 117S. I hardly doubt China will place an unproven engine on its newest prototype.

Some pictures look black while some look white only because of the angle of the sunlight coupled with poor quality of the images. We will need higher resolution pictures.

 

[Minghegy]

There are two J20-01 with different engine.

older one

newer one

older one, see the yellow part besides cockpit

newer one, no the yellow part

 

[cir]

Let me repeat:

J-20 is just the tip of a "huge" iceberg. It is part of a comprehensive and ultra-modern system and a small but important start. Lots of goodies, whether land-based, sea-going, air-borne or space-ferrying, are coming out in the next few years. Expect to see pictures as they come out. You lot won't have to wait for long.

 

[JAYBAL]

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