J20 Stealth Fighter

[MiG-29SMT]

The point is that you dont actually need a variable inlet to reach Mach 2, and operationally, fighter doesn't even fly at that speed


Again for a million times, no one ever said stealth is completely invisible. The whole point of stealth is so that you can detect and attack enemy first, especially in jamming condition
If the burn through distance against your fighters is only 1/10 that of the enemy, then that a significant tactical advantage

use jammers you also tell your location, since jamming is emitting electromagnetic waves, add Rafale, Eurofighter and Su-35 have limited supercruise speed, you can not have everything in life sorry

 

[MiG-29SMT]

I am not hiding my lack of arguments, it's you who is resorting to making strawman arguments, you are constantly making up your own imaginary accusations that we are making a particular argument and then countering that same argument and acting as if you are correct, even though we have never advocated any part of that so called claim. You in the past were advocating that we claimed stealth means "invisibility" to radar, I ask you to show us a single instance where I or any other member for that instance has claimed that stealth means "invisibility". I & other members have already told that what Stealth is, i will not explain again.

No one here is saying that RCS is a fixed value, When did I even claim that? I clearly have said that any radar in this world of any plane can detect any other plane in the world. I also gave you the example of MIG-23, MiG-21 & F-35. Anyways RCS is not fixed in any way, for e.g at a certain angle an Su-57 will have a much higher RCS, on other hand, at another certain angle the Su-57 will reflect less radar return towards the emitter and will have a higher RCS value. It depends on variables like frequency & direction. So RCS is not fixed & I have never claimed that.

If you think by accusing us of making imaginary claims and countering that & acting as if we claimed it makes you look like some expert then be my guest, omg how many times are you making up claims after claims after claims which none of us ever made? Now did I ever say that energy can be destroyed? I am already aware of the law which states that energy can never be destroyed.

Conservation of energy
"In physics and chemistry, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant; it is said to be conserved over time."

View attachment 187739

And no, F-35 will not remain unseen to radar, because it is not invisible, no plane in this world is invisible to radar in any way. Again I have never claimed that F-35 is some "wonder weopon" that it has some "magic cloaking" ability that will make it unseen.

Keep up with your strawman arguments, keep claiming stuff we never claimed, keep countering that and act as if you are right.

F-35 will remain unseen, f135 is cold_ that equals RCS is fixed and higher thrust is colder

your are mister strawman

 

[Super Flanker]

F-35 will remain unseen, f135 is cold_ that equals RCS is fixed and higher thrust is colder

your are mister strawman

OMG Keep spamming with your silly strawman arguments, this is the last time I am going to tell you this :

1. I have never claimed RCS is a fixed value, I already explained this part & will not explain again and waste my time.
3. I have never claimed that F-135 is cold, hold on there, are you trying to be sarcastic at this point? Good luck with that sir!

We all know who is mister strawman in this entire argument, we all know who started bringing up stuff that we never claimed in the first place & started countering that stuff and act as if he is expert.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

OMG Keep spamming with your silly strawman arguments, this is the last time I am telling you this :

1. I have never claimed RCS is a fixed value, I already explained this part & will not explain again and waste my time.
3. I have never claimed that F-135 is cold, hold on there, are you trying to be sarcastic at this point? Good luck with that sir!

We all know who is mister strawman in this entire argument, we all know who started bringing up stuff that we never claimed in the first place & started countering that stuff and act as if he is expert.

spamming why you do not say it more clear? since physics and the Formula says it, the possibility Nebo detects F-35 is high, since you know f135 is the hottest jet engine and to fly fast F-35 needs power to carry fuel and weapons needs thrust and it has a fixed air intake its IR signature is not low, have they tried to reduce it yes, but at low power settings F-35 is slow heavy and has bad performance, basically it relies on BVR and electronics.

 

[StealthFlanker]

F135 to achieve 19000kgf is much hotter than Al-31 for sure, the Russians say 25-35 km on a very low power setting 10000kkgf, remember that for a fighter weighing close to 29000kg well it means being slow and at high altitude turn rates drop, less thrust less turns higher altitude, less agility.

So F-35 can not carry lots of fuels has bad performance and agility, reduce pressure recovery and you add more fuen on the afterburner or even military setting.

Firstly, a loaded F-35 is a lot less than 30 tons, 13,290 kg empty weight and 8,278 kg internal fuel, 6 AIM-120D is only 972 kg. Total an F-35 will full internal fuel and 6 AAM is only 22,541 kg. So no, it is not close to 29,000 kg or 30,000 kg, no matter how many times you want to repeat that lie
for comparison, Su-30 empty weight is 17,700 kg , and with 9,400 kg of internal fuel, 6 R-77 weight 1140 kg, so in total, Su-30 with full internal fuel and 6 AAM weight 28240 kg
Secondly, F-135 generate 125 kN Military thrust, 191 kN with full Afterburner.
AL-31 generate 76.49 kN Military thrust, 122.6 kN with full afterburner
But if you can count, you will realize that Su-30 has 2 engines while F-35 only has 1 engine
So Su-30 will generate 152.98 kN Military thrust and 245.2 kN with full afterburner

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Firstly, a loaded F-35 is a lot less than 30 tons, 13,290 kg empty weight and 8,278 kg internal fuel, 6 AIM-120D is only 972 kg. Total an F-35 will full internal fuel and 6 AAM is only 22,541 kg. So no, it is not close to 29,000 kg or 30,000 kg, no matter how many times you want to repeat that lie
for comparison, Su-30 empty weight is 17,700 kg , and with 9,400 kg of internal fuel, 6 R-77 weight 1140 kg, so in total, Su-30 with full internal fuel and 6 AAM weight 28240 kg
Secondly, F-135 generate 125 kN Military thrust, 191 kN with full Afterburner.
AL-31 generate 76.49 kN Military thrust, 122.6 kN with full afterburner
But if you can count, you will realize that Su-30 has 2 engines while F-35 only has 1 engine
So Su-30 will generate 152.98 kN Military thrust and 245.2 kN with full afterburner

22541kg is more than twice an engine setting of 10000kgf, if you call it a good thrust to weight ratio be my guest but in real life is not

 

[StealthFlanker]

22541kg is more than twice an engine setting of 10000kgf, if you call it a good thrust to weight ratio be my guest but in real life is not

well, it is pretty simple darling
F-35 will full internal fuel and 6 AAM is only 22,541 kg
Su-30 with full internal fuel and 6 AAM weight 28240 kg
OLS-UE rated detection range against Su-30 target from head on direction is 15 km
OLS-35 rated detection range against Su-30 target from head on direction is 35 km
Whatever thrust rating they assumed for the Su-30 in that condition must be sufficient. Simple as that. And since it sufficient for Su-30, it must be sufficient for F-35 which is a lot lighter

use jammers you also tell your location, since jamming is emitting electromagnetic waves, add Rafale, Eurofighter and Su-35 have limited supercruise speed, you can not have everything in life sorry

Be my guess, since western aircraft have self propelled jammer

 

[Blademaster]

 

[MiG-29SMT]

well, it is pretty simple darling
F-35 will full internal fuel and 6 AAM is only 22,541 kg
Su-30 with full internal fuel and 6 AAM weight 28240 kg
OLS-UE rated detection range against Su-30 target from head on direction is 15 km
OLS-35 rated detection range against Su-30 target from head on direction is 35 km
Whatever thrust rating they assumed for the Su-30 in that condition must be sufficient. Simple as that. And since it sufficient for Su-30, it must be sufficient for F-35 which is a lot lighter


Be my guess, since western aircraft have self propelled jammer

you make your own numbers cool.

Russian fighter shot down two helicopters and two more aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in two hours
Fighterbomber: Russian Su-35S shot down two helicopters and two more aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in two hours

Photo: Alexey Kudenko / RIA Novosti

A Russian Su-35S fighter shot down two helicopters and two more aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (APU) in two hours. This was reported in the Fighterbomber Telegram channel.

The authors of the channel claim that what happened on Thursday, December 29, the event is unique "on the scale of military aviation in the world." The Russian fighter jet took down two helicopters and two planes of Ukraine in one flight. In addition, the entire flight took approximately two hours.

Fighterbomber writes that it is not yet known exactly which aircraft models the Su-35S destroyed. “It’s not clear about the aircraft: either the Su-24 and MiG-29, or the MiG-29 and Su-25,” the message says. At the same time, it is noted that a pair of Mi-8s were shot down from helicopters.

“It’s not surprising - the epic is that one Su-35S did it all in two hours, spending four missiles on all,” the authors of the channel concluded.

Earlier it became known that the Russian military destroyed two Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopters in the DPR. The Ministry of Defense also reported that since the beginning of the special military operation, 196 helicopters belonging to the Armed Forces of Ukraine have been destroyed. In addition, air defense systems shot down six unmanned aerial vehicles, including three Strizh jet drones.

On December 21, Russian Aerospace Forces fighters destroyed a Su-25 attack aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in an air battle. According to the official representative of the Ministry of Defense, Lieutenant General Igor Konashenkov, this happened near the city of Krasnogorovka in the DPR. At the same time, he clarified that a Ukrainian Mi-8 helicopter was also shot down in the sky over Artemovsk.

Российский истребитель за два часа сбил два вертолета и еще два самолета ВСУ

Российский истребитель Су-35С за два часа сбил два вертолета и еще два самолета Вооруженных сил Украины (ВСУ). Авторы канала утверждают, что произошедшее в четверг, 29 декабря, событие уникально «в масштабах боевой авиации в мире». Российский истребитель сбил самолеты и вертолеты, использовав...

lenta.ru

 

[StealthFlanker]

Now that the troll has been banned, we can come back to informative post regarding J-20

 

[J20!]

Happy 2023 to everyone.

Unfortunately it seems this pic was Faked. Just a photoshopped J20A

All the fake new posters really are annoying. Waiting on more ACTUAL pics of J20B for analysis

 

[SexyChineseLady]

The two seater 2032 is now painted operational gray!

 

[Super Flanker]

spamming why you do not say it more clear? since physics and the Formula says it, the possibility Nebo detects F-35 is high, since you know f135 is the hottest jet engine and to fly fast F-35 needs power to carry fuel and weapons needs thrust and it has a fixed air intake its IR signature is not low, have they tried to reduce it yes, but at low power settings F-35 is slow heavy and has bad performance, basically it relies on BVR and electronics.

If we are to speak about Nebo radar then you should keep in mind that Nebo is an OTH radar, OTH stands for "Over The Horizon". Do you know what the main purpose of OTH radars are? They are generally used to detect ballistic missile launches and are used as early warning & threat detection systems. Such radars are useful if your country has a very large landmass such as Russia or US, and yes Nebo can detect F-35 but OTH radars have huge blindspot. Secondly if we speak about the F-35's IR signature then I would like to enlighten you about the various ways F-35 reduces it's IR signature, I will not list all but atleast some of the ways the F-35 is able to reduce its IR signature.

1. F-35 employes serrated circular exhaust nozzle, this enables faster mixing of the gases from exhaust with surrounding gases. Read about diffusion which basically is the concept of gases mix with other gases, solids or liquids. Such design of nozzle greatly reduces exhaust plume as compared to traditional nozzles like those found on planes like F-16, F-15, Su-30, Su-35, Su-27, Tejas etc.

I will demonstrate this with a photo.

Compare the size of exhaust in picture above and below. In picture above, this is what the exhaust looks like produced by conventional nozzle, on other hand the photo below shows how the exhaust looks like with serrated nozzle design, can you see the big difference in IR signature?

2. Another way the F-35 is able to reduce its IR signature is by shielding it's nozzles from the sides, this is because of the design it's horizontal stabilizers which extend way back the engine in the aircraft fuselage. To demonstrate this all I need to do is show you a photo of an F-35 from the side.

See how the horizontal stabilizers help shield the exhaust (though not 100% but to some extent ofcourse the IR signature is reduced)? This is superior design if you want reduced IR signature.

3. The F-35 uses P&W F-135 engine, F-135 is a high bypass engine which produce Lower plume for same rate thrust.

There are more ways F-35 can reduce its IR signature though, but I will not list them. F-35 can definitely be detected by radar or even IRST but it's IR signature is definitely lower than fourth gen planes like F-16, F-15, Tejas, Su-30 etc.

Now I am not going to spam any more posts about the F-35 on this thread as this is J-20 thread, might have to ask the moderators to shift the posts to F-35 thread.

 

[StealthFlanker]

If we are to speak about Nebo radar then you should keep in mind that Nebo is an OTH radar, OTH stands for "Over The Horizon". Do you know what the main purpose of OTH radars are? They are generally used to detect ballistic missile launches and are used as early warning & threat detection systems. Such radars are useful if your country has a very large landmass such as Russia or US, and yes Nebo can detect F-35 but OTH radars have huge blindspot.

Actually Nebo is not an OTH radar. Nebo operate in VHF band, to have OTH radar, you must operate in HF band

 

[Super Flanker]

Actually Nebo is not an OTH radar. Nebo operate in VHF band, to have OTH radar, you must operate in HF band

Thanks for the correction, the thing is that in the past I have read several articles on the internet & posts on this forum in which so many users boast about OTH radars being "anti stealth" or "stealth killers" and they always quote detection ranges of these radars being like 1000+ kms but in reality these radars ain't what they are portrayed as, so when I read about NEBO radar and it's range then I automatically assumed that it was an OTH radar due to its long claimed range (I think 500-600+ kms). Nonetheless speaking about OTH radar then yes they operate in HF band, in frequency range from 5 to 30 MHz.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Now that the troll has been banned, we can come back to informative post regarding J-20

as if it was an university, uhmmm, here all opine banning is not even winning the argument but forums are forums, information here is like wikipedia, you just believe you are right

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Mass production!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Prototype 2052, fitted with two WS-15 engines!

 

[skywatcher]

 

[skywatcher]