rockdog
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J20 Stealth Fighter
- Thread starter badguy2000
- Start date
SexyChineseLady
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Many J-20s and J-10Cs at Chengdu Aircraft!
J-10Cs could be waiting for WS-10 engine certification or for export order
J-10Cs could be waiting for WS-10 engine certification or for export order
MiG-29SMT
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WS-15 jet engine thrust loss issues force China to pay special attention to stage 2 engine for Su-57
February 4, 2021
112
China continues to show problems with aircraft engines that are planned to be used on the fifth generation J-20 and J-31 fighters. We are talking about power plants WS-15. If in November 2019, publications began to appear in the Chinese media, in which it was asserted about a "breakthrough" in the creation of these engines, then the information vigor in this regard faded somewhat.
The reason, as it turns out, is the unresolved problem of a sharp decrease in the thrust of the WS-15 engine when the temperature of the turbine of the power plant approaches the operating parameters. When the temperature exceeds 1350 degrees Celsius, the engine loses its thrust, and initially the loss reached 25 percent, which, for obvious reasons, is unacceptable for fighters claiming high maneuverability. In the end, it is also simply dangerous during the flight, because the pilot can lose control of the fighter.
Recently, the loss of thrust when the turbine reaches the operating temperature indicator has been reduced to about 18%. However, the Chinese engine builders have not yet been able to completely get rid of this problem. It is believed that one of the problems is associated with the alloy used, the optimal composition of which has already been tried to be selected several times, changing the original options. Another problem is the accumulation of fuel in the engine without its timely combustion.
In this regard, China does not hide the fact that they expect a demonstration in Russia of fifth-generation Su-57 fighters with engines of the so-called second stage. We are talking about "Product 30" - a by-pass turbojet engine with an afterburner. Ignition of fuel, as described in open sources, in a Russian engine is carried out directly when it enters the combustion chamber, equipped with a plasma ignition system with installation on injectors. This allows you to avoid various options for inefficient fuel combustion, which, as in the same Chinese, led to a final loss of thrust. At the same time, in the Russian engine of the second stage, the working temperature of the gases reaches 1800 degrees Celsius, and the thrust on the afterburner is 18 tons.
For China, the technology used by Russian engine builders is clearly important, and therefore there is a possibility that the PRC will eventually decide to order a limited batch of Su-57 with the engines developed under the Product 30 program. Thus, the WS-15's thrust loss issues are forcing China to pay special attention to the second stage engines for Russian fighters.
Chinese military experts point out that just such an option for importing the Su-57 would be acceptable. This is how Chinese engine-building technologies are forged ...
topwar.ru
February 4, 2021
112
China continues to show problems with aircraft engines that are planned to be used on the fifth generation J-20 and J-31 fighters. We are talking about power plants WS-15. If in November 2019, publications began to appear in the Chinese media, in which it was asserted about a "breakthrough" in the creation of these engines, then the information vigor in this regard faded somewhat.
The reason, as it turns out, is the unresolved problem of a sharp decrease in the thrust of the WS-15 engine when the temperature of the turbine of the power plant approaches the operating parameters. When the temperature exceeds 1350 degrees Celsius, the engine loses its thrust, and initially the loss reached 25 percent, which, for obvious reasons, is unacceptable for fighters claiming high maneuverability. In the end, it is also simply dangerous during the flight, because the pilot can lose control of the fighter.
Recently, the loss of thrust when the turbine reaches the operating temperature indicator has been reduced to about 18%. However, the Chinese engine builders have not yet been able to completely get rid of this problem. It is believed that one of the problems is associated with the alloy used, the optimal composition of which has already been tried to be selected several times, changing the original options. Another problem is the accumulation of fuel in the engine without its timely combustion.
In this regard, China does not hide the fact that they expect a demonstration in Russia of fifth-generation Su-57 fighters with engines of the so-called second stage. We are talking about "Product 30" - a by-pass turbojet engine with an afterburner. Ignition of fuel, as described in open sources, in a Russian engine is carried out directly when it enters the combustion chamber, equipped with a plasma ignition system with installation on injectors. This allows you to avoid various options for inefficient fuel combustion, which, as in the same Chinese, led to a final loss of thrust. At the same time, in the Russian engine of the second stage, the working temperature of the gases reaches 1800 degrees Celsius, and the thrust on the afterburner is 18 tons.
For China, the technology used by Russian engine builders is clearly important, and therefore there is a possibility that the PRC will eventually decide to order a limited batch of Su-57 with the engines developed under the Product 30 program. Thus, the WS-15's thrust loss issues are forcing China to pay special attention to the second stage engines for Russian fighters.
Chinese military experts point out that just such an option for importing the Su-57 would be acceptable. This is how Chinese engine-building technologies are forged ...
Проблемы с потерей тяги авиадвигателя WS-15 заставляют Китай обратить особое внимание на двигатель 2-го этапа для Су-57
В Китае продолжают обнаруживаться проблемы с авиационными двигателями, которые планируется использовать на истребителях пятого поколения J-20 и J-31. Речь идёт о силовых установках WS-15. Если в ноябре 2019 года в китайских СМИ начали выходить публикации, в которых утверждалось о «прорыве» при
MiG-29SMT
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Ukraine refused to cooperate with China
02.05.2021 · Economy
After Joe Biden officially became the president of the United States, the Ukrainian authorities began to actively signal to Washington that it was time to pay attention to Kiev. One of the steps in this direction was the attack on the opposition media, which was led by oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk through third parties, and the other - sanctions against the Chinese company Skyrizon Aircraft Holdings Limited, which bought a controlling stake in Motor Sich.
Analysts believe that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has decided to go all-in, betting everything he has on an alliance with the United States. However, it is not known how successful his solution will be.
At the end of January, in an interview with HBO, Zelenskiy said that he did not regard China as his strategic adversary, but he was not going to give him a strategically important Ukrainian enterprise. At the same time, the deal on Motor Sich was made during the reign of Petro Poroshenko, but due to various bureaucratic delays, the Chinese were unable to gain control over the enterprise. Now, apparently, they will not be able to do this at all, because first the US imposed sanctions against the new owners of Motor Sich, and then Ukraine joined them.
Washington has made it clear why this deal cannot be allowed to materialize. The Ukrainian company produces engines for helicopters and aircraft that will be used in the Chinese military industry. At the same time, China is a strategic enemy for the United States.
“Zelensky’s position on Motor Sich has changed dramatically after Biden’s inauguration. It is obvious to everyone that there is a tough confrontation between the United States, Russia and China, but even with the very aggressive rhetoric of the previous US President Donald Trump, Zelensky did not impose sanctions against China, although then the grounds were the same as now.
That is, he tried to balance between Beijing and Washington to the last, but after the arrival of Biden, the situation changed. It is unlikely that the new US President demanded that Kiev urgently impose sanctions. Even Poroshenko was not required to do this. Most likely, Zelensky himself decided to take such a step in order to attract the attention of the American authorities. Moreover, this is only part of the overall program. There you can also record the closure of a number of media outlets in Ukraine, because all the same grounds for the liquidation of TV channels were a year and a half ago, ”Andrey Buzarov, a member of the Public Council of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, told MK.
It is well known what Zelenskiy expects from Washington. First of all, this is Ukraine's entry into NATO. He himself said so directly in an interview with HBO. At the same time, the Ukrainian leader stressed that the previously provided support to his country was not enough to contain Russian aggression. As you know, in 2014-2015, Biden was called the main curator of the Ukrainian "war party", so Zelensky's expectations cannot be called completely unfounded, but no one can guarantee his success either. Still, the desire of the US President on such an important issue is not enough.
You can understand the Chinese. In addition to the fact that the enterprise is of strategic importance to their military-industrial complex, in 2020 they invested $ 100 million in it, and in 2021 they were going to invest $ 150 million. In addition, according to media reports, the entire transaction cost the Chinese company Skyrizon Aircraft Holdings Limited about $ 3.5 billion, of which $ 2.5 billion was spent on the construction of two factories in China, where products from Ukraine were supposed to arrive. But since there is still no access to production, enterprises are idle.
“In 2019, there was news on the front pages of Chinese newspapers that Beijing was able to agree with Kiev on the purchase of Motor Sich. That is, the topic for China was very important. For Ukraine, this agreement was also beneficial, however, a third party intervened. Directly or indirectly, the United States influenced the deal. The sanctions can be seen as Zelenskiy's present for Biden's inauguration. He probably believes that the United States can give Ukraine more than China. But time will tell how successful this maneuver will be. It is necessary that the new US authorities establish an effective scheme of cooperation with Kiev, but for now it is too early to talk about it, - Ukrainian political analyst Taras Kozub told MK. “At the same time, in my opinion, given the current level of relations, Ukraine could at least try to play a multi-vector policy. But Zelensky refused this,although China was interested in this. Earlier, Kiev tried to integrate into the One Belt - One Road program, but now the dialogue can be considered minimized. It is unlikely that this will be remembered in the foreseeable future. "
finobzor.ru
02.05.2021 · Economy
After Joe Biden officially became the president of the United States, the Ukrainian authorities began to actively signal to Washington that it was time to pay attention to Kiev. One of the steps in this direction was the attack on the opposition media, which was led by oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk through third parties, and the other - sanctions against the Chinese company Skyrizon Aircraft Holdings Limited, which bought a controlling stake in Motor Sich.
Analysts believe that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has decided to go all-in, betting everything he has on an alliance with the United States. However, it is not known how successful his solution will be.
At the end of January, in an interview with HBO, Zelenskiy said that he did not regard China as his strategic adversary, but he was not going to give him a strategically important Ukrainian enterprise. At the same time, the deal on Motor Sich was made during the reign of Petro Poroshenko, but due to various bureaucratic delays, the Chinese were unable to gain control over the enterprise. Now, apparently, they will not be able to do this at all, because first the US imposed sanctions against the new owners of Motor Sich, and then Ukraine joined them.
Washington has made it clear why this deal cannot be allowed to materialize. The Ukrainian company produces engines for helicopters and aircraft that will be used in the Chinese military industry. At the same time, China is a strategic enemy for the United States.
“Zelensky’s position on Motor Sich has changed dramatically after Biden’s inauguration. It is obvious to everyone that there is a tough confrontation between the United States, Russia and China, but even with the very aggressive rhetoric of the previous US President Donald Trump, Zelensky did not impose sanctions against China, although then the grounds were the same as now.
That is, he tried to balance between Beijing and Washington to the last, but after the arrival of Biden, the situation changed. It is unlikely that the new US President demanded that Kiev urgently impose sanctions. Even Poroshenko was not required to do this. Most likely, Zelensky himself decided to take such a step in order to attract the attention of the American authorities. Moreover, this is only part of the overall program. There you can also record the closure of a number of media outlets in Ukraine, because all the same grounds for the liquidation of TV channels were a year and a half ago, ”Andrey Buzarov, a member of the Public Council of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine, told MK.
It is well known what Zelenskiy expects from Washington. First of all, this is Ukraine's entry into NATO. He himself said so directly in an interview with HBO. At the same time, the Ukrainian leader stressed that the previously provided support to his country was not enough to contain Russian aggression. As you know, in 2014-2015, Biden was called the main curator of the Ukrainian "war party", so Zelensky's expectations cannot be called completely unfounded, but no one can guarantee his success either. Still, the desire of the US President on such an important issue is not enough.
You can understand the Chinese. In addition to the fact that the enterprise is of strategic importance to their military-industrial complex, in 2020 they invested $ 100 million in it, and in 2021 they were going to invest $ 150 million. In addition, according to media reports, the entire transaction cost the Chinese company Skyrizon Aircraft Holdings Limited about $ 3.5 billion, of which $ 2.5 billion was spent on the construction of two factories in China, where products from Ukraine were supposed to arrive. But since there is still no access to production, enterprises are idle.
“In 2019, there was news on the front pages of Chinese newspapers that Beijing was able to agree with Kiev on the purchase of Motor Sich. That is, the topic for China was very important. For Ukraine, this agreement was also beneficial, however, a third party intervened. Directly or indirectly, the United States influenced the deal. The sanctions can be seen as Zelenskiy's present for Biden's inauguration. He probably believes that the United States can give Ukraine more than China. But time will tell how successful this maneuver will be. It is necessary that the new US authorities establish an effective scheme of cooperation with Kiev, but for now it is too early to talk about it, - Ukrainian political analyst Taras Kozub told MK. “At the same time, in my opinion, given the current level of relations, Ukraine could at least try to play a multi-vector policy. But Zelensky refused this,although China was interested in this. Earlier, Kiev tried to integrate into the One Belt - One Road program, but now the dialogue can be considered minimized. It is unlikely that this will be remembered in the foreseeable future. "
Украина отказалась от сотрудничества с Китаем
После того, как президентом США официально стал Джо Байден, украинские власти начали активно сигнализировать Вашингтону о том, что пора бы уже обратить внимание на Киев. Одним из шагов в этом направлении стала атака на оппозиционные СМИ, которыми через третьих лиц руководил олигарх Виктор...
rockdog
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The CD forum said there are 27 J10c and 7 J20 in Chengdu airpoart for 2021 Chinese new year delivery ceremony.Many J-20s and J-10Cs at Chengdu Aircraft!
J-10Cs could be waiting for WS-10 engine certification or for export order
View attachment 76987
View attachment 76986
MiG-29SMT
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The total number of aircraft suitable for use in air defense is estimated at 1500-1600 units. There are outdated and modern samples of Chinese production in the ranks; a significant part of the aircraft fleet is made up of Russian and licensed fighters.
The most widespread in the Air Force is the J-10 light fighter of several modifications. Quite old J-7s still make up a significant part of the park. Serial production of modern J-11s of several modifications continues. Deliveries of the latest next generation fighter, the J-20, have recently begun. Imported equipment is represented by dozens of Su-27SK / UBK, Su-30MKK and Su-35 fighters.
topwar.ru
topwar.ru
F-22, Su-57 and J-20. Similarities and differences
December 9, 2020
73
F-22A in flight. Photo by US Air Force
To date, only three types of 5th generation heavy fighters have been created and put into production. The American F-22A, the Russian Su-57 and the Chinese J-20 are at various stages of production and operation. Despite belonging to the same generation and class, these machines differ markedly from each other. Their designers fulfilled different requirements and implemented different concepts - which led to known results.
Development issues
The main difference between the three projects of the latest generation fighters at the moment is their number and status. Thus, the United States began work on the 5th generation earlier than other countries and was the first to receive the finished aircraft. Serial production of F-22A fighters was completed back in 2011, when competitors were just beginning to test their machines.
The Pentagon planned to take full advantage of the gap from other countries to build a large F-22A fleet. However, in the future, the production program was reduced several times, and the Air Force received only 186 production aircraft. Only a few years after that, China began producing its J-20 fighter. According to various reports, at least 50 of these machines have already been built. Russian industry, in turn, is in no hurry. Now the construction of the first serial samples is underway, which will be transferred to the Aerospace Forces in the near future.
F-22A with open cargo compartments. The shape of the controlled engine nozzles is also visible. Photo Wikimedia Commons
It should be noted that the marked difference in "age" affected the progress of the projects. The USA had to independently gain all the necessary experience and look for the required solutions. Lagging by several years, China and Russia could take into account certain aspects of American work and adjust their plans accordingly. In addition, the three projects were initially based on different requirements, which was associated with different needs of the Air Force.
As a result, three modern 5th generation heavy fighters differ markedly from each other, both externally and internally. Let's consider their main differences in appearance, as well as their technical and conceptual reasons.
Airplane as a platform
The aircraft in question are stealth twin-engine fighters with a number of similarities and differences. So, the projects are united by the idea of building a glider from metals and composites, which gives an optimal ratio of strength and weight. In addition, similar solutions were used to reduce visibility, engines with a controlled thrust vector, etc.
Su-57 on trials. Photo of UAC
When developing the F-22A, stealth was one of the main goals, which affected the appearance of the aircraft. Such requirements led to the formation of characteristic contours and some features of the internal structure of the structure. In addition, the aircraft received a special radio-absorbing coating.
The foreign press mentions that during the creation of the J-20, measures were also taken to reduce the visibility, but they are not as effective as in the case of the F-22A. There are no precise data on the parameters of the Russian Su-57's signature, and the available estimates vary greatly. At the same time, it is believed that during the development of this aircraft, stealth was not a key characteristic, and for its sake they did not sacrifice other parameters.
The F-22A, Su-57 and J-20 have high performance twin-engine power plants. The thrust-to-weight ratio is greater than one, which is necessary for the growth of flight data. In a number of modes with the correct selection of the load, all three aircraft can perform supersonic flight without switching on the afterburner.
F-22, Su-57 and J-20. Similarities and differences
Experienced Su-57 with two types of engines. Photo of UAC
One of the main requirements for the Su-57 concerned super-maneuverability. A key component for solving this problem was the thrust vectoring engine. The AL-41F1 and Product 30 engines are capable of deflecting the vector in two planes, which in the required way affects the maneuverability. In the American project F-22A, two-plane vector control was considered unnecessary and threatening stealth. Consequently, the Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 engines have a flat nozzle that moves vertically only. Until recently, the Chinese J-20 was equipped with engines without thrust vector control. In the latest versions of the project, WS-10B-3 products are used, capable of providing super-maneuverability.
The aircraft in question received the most modern electronic equipment developed in three countries. Fully digital sighting and navigation systems, radar with AFAR, "network-centric" means of data exchange, etc. are used. There are important innovations. For example, the Su-57 uses a set of separate antennas to complement the main radar. The "glass cockpit" has long become the standard for modern fighters, and the machines in question are no exception.
Combat potential
The American F-22A and the Russian Su-57, despite the development of aviation weapons, retain built-in cannons. The Chinese military and engineers adhere to different concepts for the development of aviation, which is why their new generation fighters do not have guns.
Bottom view. The configuration of the main cargo bays can be considered. Photo Wikimedia Commons
To ensure stealth, 5th generation fighters must carry missile and bomb weapons in their internal compartments protected from radiation. Thus, the F-22A has a large central cargo bay with 6 suspension points. On the sides of it there are two additional compartments, one missile each. Four removable pylons can be installed under the wing. The Russian project Su-57 provides for the placement of two large main compartments along the fuselage. There are two additional compartments in the center section. It was reported that there are 8 suspension points in four compartments. The same amount is installed under the wing if necessary. The J-20 is similar in design to the F-22A and is capable of carrying at least 6 air-to-air missiles or other weapons. There are 4 additional suspension points under the wing.
The sighting systems of all three fighters were initially compatible with modern aircraft weapons. Measures were also taken to ensure easy and fast integration of new designs. Some new types of missiles and bombs were originally created taking into account the characteristics of the 5th generation fighters.
Concepts and requirements
Thus, the three 5th generation heavy fighters, having common features, differ significantly from each other in key features and characteristics. The reasons for this are simple: the military of the three leading countries have different views on the development of fighter aircraft and put forward different requirements.
Chinese J-20 in flight. Photo Wikimedia Commons
The goal of the American project was to create a fighter capable of invisibly approaching a target at an attack distance using long-range missiles. Combat at shorter distances and work on ground targets were not excluded, but were never considered as the main functions. For this reason, the F-22A has a distinctive appearance and does not show super-high maneuverability, although it is capable of carrying a significant amount of ammunition.
The Russian fighter of the new generation Su-57 was created as a universal vehicle for long-range and close combat, as well as for engaging ground targets. As a result, flight and maneuverability characteristics, sighting system and weapons were given high priority. To some extent, they sacrificed stealth.
The exact goals of the developers of the Chinese J-20 are unknown, but the appearance of this machine serves as a transparent hint. It seems that the basic concept of this machine is a cross between Russian and American. Both long-range and close air combat are a priority. For this, the aircraft carries advanced avionics and weapons, and also has a characteristic aerodynamic design that increases maneuverability. The potential for percussion work is questionable.
J-20, bottom view. The features of the aerodynamic shape and the configuration of the weapon bays are visible. Photo Wikimedia Commons
With all this, cost issues should be considered. The highly advanced and sophisticated F-22A turned out to be too expensive even for the United States, which is why the production program was cut several times. The Russian Su-57 has already gone into production, but its cost remains a topic of controversy and a potential risk. China seems to have found opportunities for mass production of its J-20, but what the final number of such equipment will be is a big question.
It should be recalled that the F-22A, Su-57 and J-20 are not the only fighters of the latest generation. It also includes a number of other developments, both brought to the series and remaining at the design stage. All of them are created in different countries according to their own requirements - and they also differ from each other, despite certain similarities and common points. In addition, research on the next 6th generation has already begun, and the results of this work in different countries will again be different. Time will show what paths the further development of fighters will take, and how current developments will affect it.
topwar.ru
The most widespread in the Air Force is the J-10 light fighter of several modifications. Quite old J-7s still make up a significant part of the park. Serial production of modern J-11s of several modifications continues. Deliveries of the latest next generation fighter, the J-20, have recently begun. Imported equipment is represented by dozens of Su-27SK / UBK, Su-30MKK and Su-35 fighters.
Противовоздушная оборона Китая
РЛС JY-26 - одна из последних разработок КНР в области радиолокации. Фото Sina.com.cn Одной из основных задач Народно-освободительной армии Китая является защита страны от воздушного нападения со стороны вероятного противника. Для ее решения построена полноценная многокомпонентная система
Сильные стороны и проблемы НОАК
Парадный расчет ракетных комплексов "Дунфэн-26". Развитие ракетных войск НОАК идет наиболее активно. Фото Globalsecurity.org Народно-освободительная армия Китая входит в список наиболее крупных, развитых и мощных вооруженных сил мира. Она имеет ряд важных преимуществ перед другими
F-22, Su-57 and J-20. Similarities and differences
December 9, 2020
73
F-22A in flight. Photo by US Air Force
To date, only three types of 5th generation heavy fighters have been created and put into production. The American F-22A, the Russian Su-57 and the Chinese J-20 are at various stages of production and operation. Despite belonging to the same generation and class, these machines differ markedly from each other. Their designers fulfilled different requirements and implemented different concepts - which led to known results.
Development issues
The main difference between the three projects of the latest generation fighters at the moment is their number and status. Thus, the United States began work on the 5th generation earlier than other countries and was the first to receive the finished aircraft. Serial production of F-22A fighters was completed back in 2011, when competitors were just beginning to test their machines.
The Pentagon planned to take full advantage of the gap from other countries to build a large F-22A fleet. However, in the future, the production program was reduced several times, and the Air Force received only 186 production aircraft. Only a few years after that, China began producing its J-20 fighter. According to various reports, at least 50 of these machines have already been built. Russian industry, in turn, is in no hurry. Now the construction of the first serial samples is underway, which will be transferred to the Aerospace Forces in the near future.
F-22A with open cargo compartments. The shape of the controlled engine nozzles is also visible. Photo Wikimedia Commons
It should be noted that the marked difference in "age" affected the progress of the projects. The USA had to independently gain all the necessary experience and look for the required solutions. Lagging by several years, China and Russia could take into account certain aspects of American work and adjust their plans accordingly. In addition, the three projects were initially based on different requirements, which was associated with different needs of the Air Force.
As a result, three modern 5th generation heavy fighters differ markedly from each other, both externally and internally. Let's consider their main differences in appearance, as well as their technical and conceptual reasons.
Airplane as a platform
The aircraft in question are stealth twin-engine fighters with a number of similarities and differences. So, the projects are united by the idea of building a glider from metals and composites, which gives an optimal ratio of strength and weight. In addition, similar solutions were used to reduce visibility, engines with a controlled thrust vector, etc.
Su-57 on trials. Photo of UAC
When developing the F-22A, stealth was one of the main goals, which affected the appearance of the aircraft. Such requirements led to the formation of characteristic contours and some features of the internal structure of the structure. In addition, the aircraft received a special radio-absorbing coating.
The foreign press mentions that during the creation of the J-20, measures were also taken to reduce the visibility, but they are not as effective as in the case of the F-22A. There are no precise data on the parameters of the Russian Su-57's signature, and the available estimates vary greatly. At the same time, it is believed that during the development of this aircraft, stealth was not a key characteristic, and for its sake they did not sacrifice other parameters.
The F-22A, Su-57 and J-20 have high performance twin-engine power plants. The thrust-to-weight ratio is greater than one, which is necessary for the growth of flight data. In a number of modes with the correct selection of the load, all three aircraft can perform supersonic flight without switching on the afterburner.
F-22, Su-57 and J-20. Similarities and differences
Experienced Su-57 with two types of engines. Photo of UAC
One of the main requirements for the Su-57 concerned super-maneuverability. A key component for solving this problem was the thrust vectoring engine. The AL-41F1 and Product 30 engines are capable of deflecting the vector in two planes, which in the required way affects the maneuverability. In the American project F-22A, two-plane vector control was considered unnecessary and threatening stealth. Consequently, the Pratt & Whitney F119-PW-100 engines have a flat nozzle that moves vertically only. Until recently, the Chinese J-20 was equipped with engines without thrust vector control. In the latest versions of the project, WS-10B-3 products are used, capable of providing super-maneuverability.
The aircraft in question received the most modern electronic equipment developed in three countries. Fully digital sighting and navigation systems, radar with AFAR, "network-centric" means of data exchange, etc. are used. There are important innovations. For example, the Su-57 uses a set of separate antennas to complement the main radar. The "glass cockpit" has long become the standard for modern fighters, and the machines in question are no exception.
Combat potential
The American F-22A and the Russian Su-57, despite the development of aviation weapons, retain built-in cannons. The Chinese military and engineers adhere to different concepts for the development of aviation, which is why their new generation fighters do not have guns.
Bottom view. The configuration of the main cargo bays can be considered. Photo Wikimedia Commons
To ensure stealth, 5th generation fighters must carry missile and bomb weapons in their internal compartments protected from radiation. Thus, the F-22A has a large central cargo bay with 6 suspension points. On the sides of it there are two additional compartments, one missile each. Four removable pylons can be installed under the wing. The Russian project Su-57 provides for the placement of two large main compartments along the fuselage. There are two additional compartments in the center section. It was reported that there are 8 suspension points in four compartments. The same amount is installed under the wing if necessary. The J-20 is similar in design to the F-22A and is capable of carrying at least 6 air-to-air missiles or other weapons. There are 4 additional suspension points under the wing.
The sighting systems of all three fighters were initially compatible with modern aircraft weapons. Measures were also taken to ensure easy and fast integration of new designs. Some new types of missiles and bombs were originally created taking into account the characteristics of the 5th generation fighters.
Concepts and requirements
Thus, the three 5th generation heavy fighters, having common features, differ significantly from each other in key features and characteristics. The reasons for this are simple: the military of the three leading countries have different views on the development of fighter aircraft and put forward different requirements.
Chinese J-20 in flight. Photo Wikimedia Commons
The goal of the American project was to create a fighter capable of invisibly approaching a target at an attack distance using long-range missiles. Combat at shorter distances and work on ground targets were not excluded, but were never considered as the main functions. For this reason, the F-22A has a distinctive appearance and does not show super-high maneuverability, although it is capable of carrying a significant amount of ammunition.
The Russian fighter of the new generation Su-57 was created as a universal vehicle for long-range and close combat, as well as for engaging ground targets. As a result, flight and maneuverability characteristics, sighting system and weapons were given high priority. To some extent, they sacrificed stealth.
The exact goals of the developers of the Chinese J-20 are unknown, but the appearance of this machine serves as a transparent hint. It seems that the basic concept of this machine is a cross between Russian and American. Both long-range and close air combat are a priority. For this, the aircraft carries advanced avionics and weapons, and also has a characteristic aerodynamic design that increases maneuverability. The potential for percussion work is questionable.
J-20, bottom view. The features of the aerodynamic shape and the configuration of the weapon bays are visible. Photo Wikimedia Commons
With all this, cost issues should be considered. The highly advanced and sophisticated F-22A turned out to be too expensive even for the United States, which is why the production program was cut several times. The Russian Su-57 has already gone into production, but its cost remains a topic of controversy and a potential risk. China seems to have found opportunities for mass production of its J-20, but what the final number of such equipment will be is a big question.
It should be recalled that the F-22A, Su-57 and J-20 are not the only fighters of the latest generation. It also includes a number of other developments, both brought to the series and remaining at the design stage. All of them are created in different countries according to their own requirements - and they also differ from each other, despite certain similarities and common points. In addition, research on the next 6th generation has already begun, and the results of this work in different countries will again be different. Time will show what paths the further development of fighters will take, and how current developments will affect it.
F-22, Су-57 и J-20. Сходства и различия
F-22A в полете. Фото US Air Force К настоящему времени созданы и поставлены в серию всего три типа истребителей 5 поколения тяжелого класса. На разных стадиях производства и эксплуатации находятся американский F-22A, российский Су-57 и китайский J-20. Несмотря на принадлежность к одному поколению
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Very informative video
MiG-29SMT
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The pace of production of J-20 fighters in China is 37 percent behind planned: a version was expressed about the reasons
In China, they are summing up the interim results of the production and operation of their J-20 fighters, which the Chinese themselves refer to as new generation aircraft (4th according to the Chinese classification, 5th according to the international classification). The first flight at that time, the prototype of the J-20 fighter made a little over 10 years ago - in January 2011. Then it was assumed that by 2020 the PLA Air Force will have at least 140-150 such fighters. However, such plans are not being kept up.
According to the Chinese press, the total number of J-20 fighters in the PLA air force is currently 90 units. According to other sources - 75, and another 15 have not yet entered the composition and are being tested.
It is noted that by now the Chinese industry has reached the production rate of about 12-13 J-20 fighters per year. At the same time, the original plans corresponded to about 20 aircraft over the same period of time. Thus, the rates of production of the new generation J-20 fighters in the PRC lag behind the planned ones by an average of 37%.
The manufacturing company - Chengdu Aircraft - does not give official comments on the reasons for such a lag. Against this background, in China itself, a version is being put forward, according to which the Chinese Air Force is expecting the appearance of aircraft with new Chinese-made engines in service. Earlier it was reported that these should be modifications of the WS-15 - power plants with a suitable thrust. However, for at least 2-2.5 years, Chinese specialists have been unable to solve the problems that have been identified in these engines, namely, a significant loss of thrust when a certain temperature is reached.
It is assumed that once this problem is resolved, the number of J-20 aircraft produced in China per year will increase significantly. However, forecasts on this score (when suitable engines will be installed en masse on these fighters) are not given. Apparently, there are problems with guarantees from the manufacturers of aircraft power plants themselves.
A source:
https://topwar.ru/180974-tempy-proizvod ... hinah.html
In China, they are summing up the interim results of the production and operation of their J-20 fighters, which the Chinese themselves refer to as new generation aircraft (4th according to the Chinese classification, 5th according to the international classification). The first flight at that time, the prototype of the J-20 fighter made a little over 10 years ago - in January 2011. Then it was assumed that by 2020 the PLA Air Force will have at least 140-150 such fighters. However, such plans are not being kept up.
According to the Chinese press, the total number of J-20 fighters in the PLA air force is currently 90 units. According to other sources - 75, and another 15 have not yet entered the composition and are being tested.
It is noted that by now the Chinese industry has reached the production rate of about 12-13 J-20 fighters per year. At the same time, the original plans corresponded to about 20 aircraft over the same period of time. Thus, the rates of production of the new generation J-20 fighters in the PRC lag behind the planned ones by an average of 37%.
The manufacturing company - Chengdu Aircraft - does not give official comments on the reasons for such a lag. Against this background, in China itself, a version is being put forward, according to which the Chinese Air Force is expecting the appearance of aircraft with new Chinese-made engines in service. Earlier it was reported that these should be modifications of the WS-15 - power plants with a suitable thrust. However, for at least 2-2.5 years, Chinese specialists have been unable to solve the problems that have been identified in these engines, namely, a significant loss of thrust when a certain temperature is reached.
It is assumed that once this problem is resolved, the number of J-20 aircraft produced in China per year will increase significantly. However, forecasts on this score (when suitable engines will be installed en masse on these fighters) are not given. Apparently, there are problems with guarantees from the manufacturers of aircraft power plants themselves.
A source:
https://topwar.ru/180974-tempy-proizvod ... hinah.html
MiG-29SMT
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The J-20, the most advanced, stealth-capable fighter jet of the PLA Air Force, has entered the next level of combat readiness, analysts said on Monday, after the aircraft was spotted flying without a Luneburg lens, a small device used to intentionally expose a stealth aircraft to others in situations like training or non-combat flights.
At the Qingming Festival on Sunday, the traditional tomb-sweeping day, pilots of J-20 jets paid respect to the heroic Chinese pilots who fought in the Korean War (1950-53), China Central Television (CCTV) reported on Sunday.
The former unit of Sun Shenglu, a heroic Chinese pilot in the war, is now equipped with J-20 fighter jets, Sun Teng, a J-20 fighter jet pilot, said on CCTV.
Sun Shenglu was part of the Wang Hai Air Group, which is now affiliated with the PLA Eastern Theater Command, according to openly available information. The PLA Air Force announced in 2019 that the Wang Hai Air Group was equipped with the J-20.
A Luneburg lens is a small device used to expand the radar cross-section of an aircraft, which means it can make a stealth aircraft visible to radar, a Chinese military expert who asked to remain anonymous told the Global Times on Monday.
In regular training, friendly radar facilities need to track stealth aircraft to monitor their activities and assess training results. In other non-combat scenarios like transit flights, making the presence of stealth aircraft known to others can avoid accidents, the expert said, noting that in some military operations, there could also be a need for such planes to show themselves to achieve deterrence while also hiding their true stealth specifications.
In most previous reports on the J-20, the stealth aircraft shown carried this radar reflector under its belly, military affairs observers said.
By removing it, the J-20 will go stealth as it was designed to, and this means it is engaged in a real combat scenario-oriented mission, the expert said, noting that the J-20 has entered the next level of combat readiness.
This article was originally published by the Global Times.
sputniknews.com
At the Qingming Festival on Sunday, the traditional tomb-sweeping day, pilots of J-20 jets paid respect to the heroic Chinese pilots who fought in the Korean War (1950-53), China Central Television (CCTV) reported on Sunday.
The former unit of Sun Shenglu, a heroic Chinese pilot in the war, is now equipped with J-20 fighter jets, Sun Teng, a J-20 fighter jet pilot, said on CCTV.
Sun Shenglu was part of the Wang Hai Air Group, which is now affiliated with the PLA Eastern Theater Command, according to openly available information. The PLA Air Force announced in 2019 that the Wang Hai Air Group was equipped with the J-20.
The CCTV footage also showed a J-20 making aerial maneuvers, and some frames showed that this J-20 was not equipped with a Luneburg lens. Further, the lines of the aircraft's side missile bay were different from previous J-20 fighters, a separate report by CCTV said on Monday.
A Luneburg lens is a small device used to expand the radar cross-section of an aircraft, which means it can make a stealth aircraft visible to radar, a Chinese military expert who asked to remain anonymous told the Global Times on Monday.
In regular training, friendly radar facilities need to track stealth aircraft to monitor their activities and assess training results. In other non-combat scenarios like transit flights, making the presence of stealth aircraft known to others can avoid accidents, the expert said, noting that in some military operations, there could also be a need for such planes to show themselves to achieve deterrence while also hiding their true stealth specifications.
In most previous reports on the J-20, the stealth aircraft shown carried this radar reflector under its belly, military affairs observers said.
By removing it, the J-20 will go stealth as it was designed to, and this means it is engaged in a real combat scenario-oriented mission, the expert said, noting that the J-20 has entered the next level of combat readiness.
This article was originally published by the Global Times.
China's J-20 Stealth Fighter Jet Flies Without Luneburg Lens, Shows Combat Readiness
The J-20, the most advanced, stealth-capable fighter jet of the PLA Air Force, has entered the next level of combat readiness, analysts said on Monday, after the aircraft was spotted flying without a Luneburg lens, a small device used to...
sputniknews.com
That is an article copied from the global times, a propaganda arm of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). True stealth is not as simple as use of dielectric materials or bandpass filters; it is far more complicated, and currently out of the reach of the PLAAF. Any modern electronically scanning wideband radar will be able to detect the reflection from the J-20 radar/radome as well as the several gaps, small features, optics pod, etc. The J-20 is a great propaganda tool for the CCP/PLA, but the truth is that in terms of materials technology (including radar absorbent materials and other techniques), the PLAAF has not arrived yet, which is why they kept the canards and other features detrimental to stealth on the J-20: It doesn't make any sense to delete them when you have far bigger reflectors of radar in the front. The J-20 at best is a reduced RCS design that is 2 decades late. This is why the J-20 is still detectable by modern electronically scanning radars (India, Taiwan and others have picked it up), even from the front. Its boxy frame with low power, unreliable engines makes it even worse if it ever gets into a dogfight. But it's a great propaganda tool to keep the Chinese people impressed and controlled by the Chinese Communist Party.
rockdog
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During 2004-2008, we with Indian members would exchange the ideas between LCA, J10 and JF17；they are in the same generation, we have enough patiences to discuss on specific details like engines, airframes, weapons, disadvantages, advantages ...
I see there are only downplays to J20 now, maybe it's not because of Chinese avi industry didn't progress, just because Indian dosen't have any equivalent ...
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Weakness' of J20 which Indian members are talking about aren't being discussed by Indians only.
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If one mentions downfall doesn’t mean he is mocking.
skywatcher
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A J-20 stealth fighter jet attached to the Chinese People's Liberation Army Eastern Theater Command takes part in exercises. The aircraft is not equipped with a Luneburg lens, a radar reflector used to make a stealth aircraft visible to others in training or non-combat flights. Photo: Screenshot from China Central Television
The J-20, the most advanced, stealth-capable fighter jet of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force, has entered the next level of combat readiness, analysts said on Monday, after the aircraft was spotted flying without a Luneburg lens, a small device used to intentionally expose a stealth aircraft to others in situations like training or non-combat flights.
At the Qingming Festival on Sunday, the traditional tomb-sweeping day, pilots of J-20 jets paid respect to the heroic Chinese pilots who fought in the Korean War (1950-53), China Central Television (CCTV) reported on Sunday.
The former unit of Sun Shenglu, a heroic Chinese pilot in the war, is now equipped with J-20 fighter jets, Sun Teng, a J-20 fighter jet pilot, said on CCTV.
Sun Shenglu was part of the Wang Hai Air Group, which is now affiliated with the PLA Eastern Theater Command, according to openly available information. The PLA Air Force announced in 2019 that the Wang Hai Air Group was equipped with the J-20.
"Air Force pilots in the new age will inherit the spirit of 'aerial bayonet fighting,' train to prepare for combat, be ready at all times for combat, and resolutely safeguard national sovereignty and dignity," Sun Teng said.
The CCTV footage also showed a J-20 making aerial maneuvers, and some frames showed that this J-20 was not equipped with a Luneburg lens. Further, the lines of the aircraft's side missile bay were different from previous J-20 fighters, a separate report by CCTV said on Monday,
A Luneburg lens is a small device used to expand the radar cross-section of an aircraft, which means it can make a stealth aircraft visible to radar, a Chinese military expert who asked to remain anonymous told the Global Times on Monday.
In regular training, friendly radar facilities need to track stealth aircraft to monitor their activities and assess training results. In other non-combat scenarios like transit flights, making the presence of stealth aircraft known to others can avoid accidents, the expert said, noting that in some military operations, there could also be a need for such planes to show themselves to achieve deterrence while also hiding their true stealth specifications.
In most previous reports on the J-20, the stealth aircraft shown carried this radar reflector under its belly, military affairs observers said.
By removing it, the J-20 will go stealth as it was designed to, and this means it is engaged in a real combat scenario-oriented mission, the expert said, noting that the J-20 has entered the next level of combat readiness.
rockdog
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Never said J20 is perfect bird, i really expect some day we would make comparison with Indian counterpart, i just don't know how long i should wait.
I was born in 1980, i read my first military mazgine in 1991, the gulf war time. At that time I noticed that the magzine also reported Arjun and LCA almost every two months we thought it would enter service very soon and must be very leading than our J7, J8, T-59, T-69, ...
Didn't expect 20 yrs passed, they are the only Indian fighter and tank we can discuss ...
For Hindi-speaking viewers:
Tejasmk1a vs Chengdu J20| US media report says Tejasmk1a is better than J20|Tejasmk1a is remarkable
In a recent American media report, Indian indigenous fighter aircraft Tejasmk1a is much better than Chinese aircraft J20. Media reports say that Indian aircraft has better equipments and the durability is much higher than the aircraft of China. According to report Indian engineers are doing a tremendous job and the aircraft is remarkable.
Tejasmk1a vs Chengdu J20| US media report says Tejasmk1a is better than J20|Tejasmk1a is remarkable
In a recent American media report, Indian indigenous fighter aircraft Tejasmk1a is much better than Chinese aircraft J20. Media reports say that Indian aircraft has better equipments and the durability is much higher than the aircraft of China. According to report Indian engineers are doing a tremendous job and the aircraft is remarkable.
The luneburg lens excuse is the most laughable of all. So far (over the entire last decade) J-20 has been flying in baby mode, but now it has decided to give up its training pants (luneburg lens) and is ready to be a big boy.
First of all, operational aircraft don't fly with luneburg lens. I think what has happened is that J-20 was unable to evade detection by India (SU-30MKI) and Taiwan in separate incidents, and some Chinese Communist Party propagandist came up with the luneburg lens excuse to use whenever it got detected. Any half decent air force can tell the signature of a luneburg lens because it is much greater (by design, in order to hide the true signature of the aircraft carrying it) than the normal RCS of fighters, and IAF or Taiwan's air force would never mistake a luneburg lens signature for the J-20's normal signature. Yet the IAF chief and others have gone on record that the J-20 was tracked by Indian SU-30MKI radar. The IAF are good enough to be able to tell the difference between a luneburg lens and the J-20 signature, regardless of what Chinese Communist Party propaganda states. It's much more likely that the J-20's RCS is too great to avoid detection by modern radars because PLAAF does not have the materials technology to create a true stealth fighter yet (the J-20's radar is still visible to enemy radar from the front).
First of all, operational aircraft don't fly with luneburg lens. I think what has happened is that J-20 was unable to evade detection by India (SU-30MKI) and Taiwan in separate incidents, and some Chinese Communist Party propagandist came up with the luneburg lens excuse to use whenever it got detected. Any half decent air force can tell the signature of a luneburg lens because it is much greater (by design, in order to hide the true signature of the aircraft carrying it) than the normal RCS of fighters, and IAF or Taiwan's air force would never mistake a luneburg lens signature for the J-20's normal signature. Yet the IAF chief and others have gone on record that the J-20 was tracked by Indian SU-30MKI radar. The IAF are good enough to be able to tell the difference between a luneburg lens and the J-20 signature, regardless of what Chinese Communist Party propaganda states. It's much more likely that the J-20's RCS is too great to avoid detection by modern radars because PLAAF does not have the materials technology to create a true stealth fighter yet (the J-20's radar is still visible to enemy radar from the front).
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rockdog
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“ The IAF are good enough to be able to tell the difference between a luneburg lens and the J-20 signature”
Do they really tell the difference between anything and an aircraft?
India: Army 'mistook planets for spy drones'
India: Army 'mistook planets for spy drones'
India's army spent six months watching "Chinese spy drones" violating its air space, only to find out they were actually Jupiter and Venus, it's reported.
www.bbc.com
India’s air force says it shot down its own helicopter
India’s air force says it shot down its own helicopter
India’s air force said Friday it accidently shot down one of its own helicopters as it engaged Pakistani fighter planes in an aerial confrontation in Indian-controlled Kashmir in February.
www.airforcetimes.com
Indian Navy one Kilo shot another one...
The sinking feeling over Indian navy
String of recent accidents has put a question mark over the state of health of the fleet.
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