J20 Stealth Fighter

[no smoking]

radar signature is the detailed waveform of a detected radar echo . whenever we get an enemy radar signature it's goes into database's. Using these databases we can quickly identify the type of aircraft , it's a continuous process that's why every country is using dedicated Elint , sigint and COMINT systems to track and record all kind of enemy emissions . It's not about the radar but the signal processing systems which analys the signal and comparing it with the database . In radar screen it's just a blip .

But the basis of all your analysis is that you already had radar signature of J-20 in your database and you were confident that the signature in your database belongs to J-20. In other words, Indian air force had meet J-20 before and more than once. Meanwhile the planes from both sides flied so close that Indian pilot can confirm that detected target was J-20 with their own eyes.

 

[sayareakd]

But the basis of all your analysis is that you already had radar signature of J-20 in your database and you were confident that the signature in your database belongs to J-20. In other words, Indian air force had meet J-20 before and more than once. Meanwhile the planes from both sides flied so close that Indian pilot can confirm that detected target was J-20 with their own eyes.

http://www.asianage.com/india/all-india/150118/china-j-20-stealth-jets-on-training-ops-in-tibet.html

“The J-20 is also practising beyond-visual-range air combat, and other aircraft, including the Y-20 and J-10C, are training at unspecified airports on a ‘plateau region’ in order to improve their capability in long-range military transport and air combat”, the PLA Daily reported on Thursday.

 

[shiphone]

LOL, so funny....I'm always wondering what's wrong with the Indian basic Education？
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you should understand that China has 9.6 million Square ksm land area, and the so called XiZhang 'plateau region’is more than 1 million square kms itself. actually there are four parts of so called plateau region（highland）within whole China... the so called airports on a ‘plateau region’of military term usually are the ones at east and north edge of XiZhang plateau/high land, 2000-4000m elevation... nowadays military/civilian airplanes high altitude taking off/Landing filgth tests are always carried out here. so called plateau region deployment isn't automaticlly translated to so called 'China-India border' , more importantly , the first J20 unit's 'home' is a plateau airport itself...lol

that stupid fake 'we media' news has been exposed , but some idiot is still enjoying eating that shit...

 

[no smoking]

http://www.asianage.com/india/all-india/150118/china-j-20-stealth-jets-on-training-ops-in-tibet.html

So, if J-20 was performing BEYOND-VISUAL-RANGE combat exercise, how did Indian pilot know that spot on their radar screen was J-20 in their first meeting?

 

[Steven Rogers]

Maintain calm ,IAF chief claims based on basic principles of stealth ie less edges and reflective surfaces. Off course putting a pair of canards on an stealth aircraft impacts on the very inherent requirement of the stealth,too much streamlining with aircraft body of which has hardly any gain in the aerodynamic of the aircraft other than during take off and landing. J20 with inherent design is not an stealth aircraft completely and fits somewhere bw f22 and Su57 (joke in the name of the stealth). J20 has comparatively a larger surface than f22 ,f35 and other stealth designs excluding Su57. And as per Various researchers at Lockheed , no amount of material can have positive impact on stealth if the design is flawed(the reason why Su57 is a joke on stealth) .

 

[no smoking]

Maintain calm ,IAF chief claims based on basic principles of stealth ie less edges and reflective surfaces.

Wait, the IAF chielf claims based on the basic principles? Not the report of Su-30 pilot?

Off course putting a pair of canards on an stealth aircraft impacts on the very inherent requirement of the stealth,too much streamlining with aircraft body of which has hardly any gain in the aerodynamic of the aircraft other than during take off and landing.

According to NASA's report-"Investigation into the impact of agility in conceptual fighter design":

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=...123|Collection|NASA%20STI||17|Collection|NACA

the air-superiority model with "canards" can achieve a moderate observables which is defined as the level of observables consistent with F-22, and in the meantime high agility.

So, your theory is wrong.

 

[lcafanboy]

Wait, the IAF chielf claims based on the basic principles? Not the report of Su-30 pilot?



According to NASA's report-"Investigation into the impact of agility in conceptual fighter design":

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19960000737&hterms=Investigation+impact+agility+conceptual+fighter+design&qs=N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=Investigation%20into%20the%20impact%20of%20agility%20in%20conceptual%20fighter%20design&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nm=123|Collection|NASA%20STI||17|Collection|NACA

the air-superiority model with "canards" can achieve a moderate observables which is defined as the level of observables consistent with F-22, and in the meantime high agility.

So, your theory is wrong.

Without a good and powerful engine with lower infra red signature J-20 is a flying turkey shoot for SU30MKI and Rafales and every other modern fighter available in the world....

J-20 is a fat pig which can't manoeuvre much without powerful engine. Hence a flying turkey shoot. So bark as much as you want we know its capabilities.

The only true 5th generation fighters in world are f-22 and B-2 flying wing bombers. Even F-35 is semi stealth, J-20 worst than even 4.5 gen fighters...

Rafales have much advanced avionics, sensor fusion, EW suite, automated aesa radar all modern 5th generation elements, making it at par with f-35 semi stealth fighter but highly manoeuvrable which makes it better than f-35..

 

[Steven Rogers]

Wait, the IAF chielf claims based on the basic principles? Not the report of Su-30 pilot?



According to NASA's report-"Investigation into the impact of agility in conceptual fighter design":

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19960000737&hterms=Investigation+impact+agility+conceptual+fighter+design&qs=N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=Investigation%20into%20the%20impact%20of%20agility%20in%20conceptual%20fighter%20design&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Nm=123|Collection|NASA%20STI||17|Collection|NACA

the air-superiority model with "canards" can achieve a moderate observables which is defined as the level of observables consistent with F-22, and in the meantime high agility.

So, your theory is wrong.

"Based on reports " even if it is based on reports their is nothing wrong in it . Any part of the aircraft which is out of the symmetry of the main body of the aircraft ,contributes in spikes other than the concentrated spike places . An stealth aircraft has spikes reduced to certain places only and addition of any part out of the body symmetry adds more surface area. Theirs a word called "planform allignment", nasa researches based on Boeing X36B research plane where canard is aligned totally with the body of the an aircraft which is half the size of f22 . By the way your link not working here on chrome.

 

[no smoking]

Without a good and powerful engine with lower infra red signature J-20 is a flying turkey shoot for SU30MKI and Rafales and every other modern fighter available in the world....

Honey, the problem with your idea is that even with the worst RCS estimation of J-20, J-20's radar can see your Su-30MKI or Rafales long before they are able to pick up the IR signal of J-20.

I won't even waste my time to comment your words about your Rafale vs F-35.

 

[no smoking]

"Based on reports " even if it is based on reports their is nothing wrong in it . Any part of the aircraft which is out of the symmetry of the main body of the aircraft ,contributes in spikes other than the concentrated spike places . An stealth aircraft has spikes reduced to certain places only and addition of any part out of the body symmetry adds more surface area.

The study just suggest that canards alone won't impact the stealth. You won't even get the roughly estimation of RCS without going into detailed analysis of stealth in each flying posture. So, unless India just do what others do - building a tech demonstrator for enemy fighter jet and doing all the necessary tests in specific infrastructure, you simply won't know how good or bad that kind design is.

Theirs a word called "planform allignment", nasa researches based on Boeing X36B research plane where canard is aligned totally with the body of the an aircraft which is half the size of f22 . By the way your link not working here on chrome.View attachment 28191

There is no need to test a full size tech demonstrator at the early stage, with certain formula, you can convert the data collected to full size model. The result won't be 100% correct but close enough.

 

[Steven Rogers]

The study just suggest that canards alone won't impact the stealth. You won't even get the roughly estimation of RCS without going into detailed analysis of stealth in each flying posture. So, unless India just do what others do - building a tech demonstrator for enemy fighter jet and doing all the necessary tests in specific infrastructure, you simply won't know how good or bad that kind design is.



There is no need to test a full size tech demonstrator at the early stage, with certain formula, you can convert the data collected to full size model. The result won't be 100% correct but close enough.

Surely but that result didn't resulted into a canard stealth aircraft in the USA USAF, NAVY,MARINES . Despite that US went with another sturdy stealth design for their next big fighter ie f35 . The basic principle of any design which is stealth suggested any part of an aircraft which is not aligned with the main body contribute in major spikes of the aircraft . That fact alone doesn't make J20 comparable to 5th Gen fighter standards that's been setup by the currently operational 5th Gen fighters like f22 and f35 for stealth . The basics of stealth is same for every stealth aircraft , and it is gained by studies while the researches shows you your limit.

 

[J20!]

Just a really, really cool photo of the J20 taken during its flight demo at Airshow China 2018:

Video of the display:

 

[Wisemarko]

New Nozzle Transforms J-10B into a Super Maneuverable Fighter

The thrust vectoring nozzle installed in the J-10B TVC testbed directs the engine’s exhaust in three dimensions, thus enabling extreme maneuverability with a single engine. Photo: Chen Jun



Among the new systems displayed at AirshowChina this year was the J-10B TVC testbed (tail #1034) that astounded the crowd with outstanding maneuvers enabled by its thrust vector controlled nozzle (TVC) system. This new nozzle elevates the Chinese fighter from an average 4GEN fighter to a level of ‘super maneuverable’ jet seen only with much more powerful and advanced Su-27/30 class aircraft.


This performance is derived from the combination of the J-10’s canards and new TVC enabled the pilot to perform extreme maneuvers on the flight demonstration over Zhuhai. The maneuvers included tight vertical loops, a slow high angle-of-attack roll, a cobra maneuver, and the falling leaf, the ‘cobra’ and flat turns almost instantly point the nose in 270 and 180 degrees.

Unlike the twin-engine TVC equipped fighters such as Su-27, Su-30, and MiG-29, that uses 2D nozzle control, the J-10B TVC nozzles’ has a 3D control that enables the fighter’s maneuvers even with a single engine. To be meaningful in combat such maneuvers must be supported by a powerful engine – the J-10B TVC testbed is likely powered by an advanced version of the indigenous Shenyang WS-10 engine equipped with a hinged nozzle.

The maneuvers included tight vertical loops, a slow high angle-of-attack roll, a cobra maneuver, and the falling leaf, the ‘cobra’ and flat turns almost instantly point the nose in 270 and 180 degrees. Photo: Chen Xiao

The new nozzle elevates the Chinese fighter from an average 4GEN fighter to a level of ‘super maneuverable’ jet seen only with much more powerful and advanced Su-27/30 class aircraft. Photo: Alert5

 

[J20!]

Sequence of J20 opening its side and main bays:

Additional close-up, including of the PL10's retractable launch rails:

 

[Armand2REP]

Sequence of J20 opening its side and main bays:

Additional close-up, including of the PL10's retractable launch rails:

Why are they photo-shopping the outlines?

 

[J20!]

Why are they photo-shopping the outlines?

The outlines of what chief? The aircraft or the weapons bays?

 

[Armand2REP]

The outlines of what chief? The aircraft or the weapons bays?

Either the weapon bays have been outlined in PS or they built it with one inch gaps.

 

[J20!]

Either the weapon bays have been outlined in PS or they built it with one inch gaps.

Or the weapons bay door edges are lined with RAM or a sealant as is shown in every pic of the open bays from Airshow China 2018.

Unless you're suggesting that they've all been photoshopped...

 

[Armand2REP]

Or the weapons bay door edges are lined with RAM or a sealant as is shown in every pic of the open bays from Airshow China 2018.

Unless you're suggesting that they've all been photoshopped...

So the gaps are so large they needed to apply a sealant?

 

[jat]

I forget why China even bothered with the J-20. They could have kept the research going until they solved some basic necessities of stealth shaping and stealth material. I think they have more money than they know what do with or some one who is no expert in the matter (CCP) wants results. They are burning cash and fuel on these things. On another note, you think the Su-35 deal had ToT?