It belongs to China

badguy2000

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China's historical evidence is NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. And everything is just based on what their government claiming. No pictures available on the net or newspapers. The Chinese government is just fabricating LIES about their history. Why won't any Chinese post a link of their historical evidence.

Chinese modus operandi seems to be to make a territory disputed then have the other party prove it is there territory. China is trying to con my country into giving part of Philippine territory to China. Shameless Chinese.

Your post is impertinent, immaterial and irrelevant to the discussion. Conclusion from discussions remains unchanged: THE PHILIPPINES IS THE RIGHTFUL OWNER OF SCARBOROUGH SHOAL. In other words, you are DEFEATED.
everyone has his proof and stand,otherwise it would not be a disputy area.

BTW, except CHInese old maps and historic book, it is enough that CHIna had claimed the islands for decades before Flips started claiming it in 1990s.
 

WuMaoCleverbot

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everyone has his proof and stand,otherwise it would not be a disputy area.

BTW, except CHInese old maps and historic book, it is enough that CHIna had claimed the islands for decades before Flips started claiming it in 1990s.
Then post the link of your historical proof so everyone could examine it. Your gov't can't provide the link...even every Chinese here on Earth can't. Conclusion from discussions remains unchanged: THE PHILIPPINES IS THE RIGHTFUL OWNER OF SCARBOROUGH SHOAL. In other words, you are DEFEATED.
 

triodetube

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BTW, except CHInese old maps and historic book, it is enough that CHIna had claimed the islands for decades before Flips started claiming it in 1990s.
another lie from your chinese commie government again. Philippines incorporated the islands since 1700's with a TRUE spanish map and not a FAKE trade route aka. 9 Dash line. if your commie government is right that it owns the entire South China Sea. tell your commie government to bring the case to the International Law. lets see who really owns the islands.
 

Zero_Wing

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Ya if you guys are so right take it up with the UN then or are you people afraid
 

Zero_Wing

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you guys really need to stop insult each other. this thread feel like bunch kindergarten argue/insult with each other.
everyone has his proof and stand,otherwise it would not be a disputy area.

BTW, except CHInese old maps and historic book, it is enough that CHIna had claimed the islands for decades before Flips started claiming it in 1990s.
Dude we been claiming the area since 1965 not 1990 your government has again misinformed you
 

WuMaoCleverbot

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These Chinese (mainland) are pathetic. Look at their claim, it is resembling a "dick" that encompasses all the resource rich islands. Now that is an opportunistic territorial claim...




From now on I shall name the Chinese claim as the "CHINESE DICK CLAIM"... :rofl:

China's 9 dash line is nothing but an imaginary set of broken lines. Imaginary because they could not even produce the 1200's map they used as a basis. Imaginary because should they be able to produce the map, it contains inaccurate mapping data of misplaced islands and waters as this was made during the 1200's. Imaginary as should they be able to produce the map, the map does not contain only details on china, but also those of neighboring countries. Will china claim all the countries indicated on the map as well?

But produce it first, if it really exists. Stop with all these fictitious claims. Prove that you have sovereignty over the islands. The Philippines already laid down their evidences and it is very convincing. China does not have any.
Therefore, again and again i will say:
THE PHILIPPINES OWNS SCARBOROUGH.


Defense of a country's territory can be done in many ways, not just by pointing the barrel of a gun. The Philippines chose to take the most civilized way to resolve disputes, and that is to take it up to the international court. International opinion is one of the best deterrents against China's overbearing attitude in the region
 

WuMaoCleverbot

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It belongs to China - Manila Standard Today - Daily news, current events, latest news in the Philippines

It belongs to China
Posted April 28th, 2012 by Manila Standard Today & filed under Opinion.

13
By Victor N. Arches II

The Scarborough Shoal does belong to China which discovered it and drew it in a map as early as 1279 during the Yuan Dynasty. Chinese fishermen, from both the Mainland and Taiwan, have since used it. As a matter of fact, Guo Shoujing, (the Chinese astronomer, engineer and mathematician who worked under the Mongol ruler, Kublai Khan) performed surveying of the South China Sea, and the surveying point was the Scarborough Shoal which is considered part of the Zhongsha Islands (renamed Huangyan Island in 1983).

By contrast, the "old maps" being relied upon by our Department of Foreign Affairs in its spurious claim on the same territory were drawn up only in 1820, or 541 years after China's. I am surprised that Senator Edgardo Angara—supposedly a renowned lawyer—can claim that a map drawn 5 centuries and 4 decades after, takes precedence over the much earlier map of China.

But I am all the more astonished that Fr. Joaquin Bernas, in his April 22 article in another newspaper, being one of the main framers of the 1987 Constitution, uses the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea as his basis to defend the Philippine claim. This, despite and after acknowledging the fact that, indeed, "the Scarborough Shoal is OUTSIDE THE LIMITS set by the Treaty of Paris for Philippine territory." What kind of double-speak is that?

So, what exactly was the territory we declared independence from the US in 1946? Why is it that NONE of our constitutions, past and present, from 1899, 1935, 1943, 1973, 1986 and 1987, include either the Spratlys or the Scarborough Shoal within our declared national territory? Where, or from whom, did we, all of a sudden, acquire title to these? Out of thin air?

In the late 1970s, China organized many scientific expeditions in the Shoal and around that area. In fact, in 1980, a stone marker reading "South China Sea Scientific Expedition" was installed by China on the South Rock. This Chinese marker was removed, without authority, by the Philippines in 1997.

All official maps published by the Philippines until the 1990s excluded both the Spratlys and Scarborough Shoal from its territorial boundaries. Our own Republic Act No. 3046, passed by our Congress and approved in 1961, stopped us from our claim. Yet, we had the temerity to amend this law on March 10, 2009, after 48 long years, to unilaterally include the disputed territories.

But what takes the cake is the fact that China holds three international treaties in support of its claim over the territories in question—namely, the 1898 Treaty of Paris between the US and Spain, the 1900 Treaty of Washington between Spain and the US, and the 1930 Treaty between Great Britain and the US, all limiting Philippine territorial limits to the 118th degree meridian of longitude east of Greenwich.

On the other hand, the basis of the Philippine claim is restricted to proximity, relying solely on the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. As far as I know, a mere "convention" cannot overturn or supersede a treaty or an agreement reached between colonial powers. And even if it were considered a "law", it cannot be made to take effect retroactively.

Whom are we fooling?

Mr. Arches is from San Juan City. He is a retired investment and merchant banker, a retired Certified Public Accountant, and a retired economist who loves to dabble in history and political science, among many other interests.



Everyman is Manila Standard Today's new column for citizens' commentary on pressing issues in the Philippines and in the world. Anybody who feels he or she has something of value to add to the discussion on the pertinent issue is encouraged to contribute.

Articles must be between 600 and 800 words. Please send them in MS Word or any compatible format to [email protected] or [email protected]



(Published in the Manila Standard Today newspaper on /2012/April/28)


Let the flamming begin!
excerpts:

He could be a real person but if he had written an article in the past, it would surely have surfaced in the Internet. If he graduated from any college or university in the Philippines or if he ever worked as a CPA in the Philippines, his name would invariably have appeared somewhere in the Internet and a search engine would have surely tracked it. It is also suspicious that he would use "II" instead of "Jr." which is what most Filipinos are accustomed to.

My suspicion about the true identity of the author was also aroused by the style and substance of the article which was uncannily similar to the way Chinese articles have dealt with the subject.

source:

China's propaganda war | Inquirer Global Nation
 
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WuMaoCleverbot

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Do you know that the united states has a lot to gain by helping the philippines?

Natural Gas. 2.7 trillion cubic meters on one existing site. 4 major areas with potential natgas deposits that i know of, estimates on one site will exceed 2.7 trillion cbm, studies show.

Oil. South china sea disputed area is said to contain large deposits of oil. Majority of deposits are contained in the areas where it should be philippine territory.

Gold, plus resources like copper, nickel, manganese, chromite, molybdenum, etc. the philippines is one of the most richest countries in the world un terms of resources. Rough estimates peg our gold deposits at more that us$1 trillion. Lol. I personally believe there is more.

Location. The us views china as a threat. Because of our location Having a foothold in the philippines means you can have a more secure hold on the south east asian region.

And many more...(WAR ERASES DEBT!!!!)

The US...just by saying they will help defend the Philippines if another country attacks us is probably China's biggest deterrent right now from declaring war.

But with or without the US, the Philippines will still stand and face China on their illegal intrusions in our waters and will fight for our territories in court.
 

WuMaoCleverbot

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Why you guys cannt just shut up and fight to get back" your" island?
Be a man.
And because you can't prove your claims, you resort again to threats of war.. Another sign of your DEFEATISM.

The Philippines has always been ready to settle this matter in court. Based on evidences, both historical and legal, provided by the Philippines, the Philippines' claim is very reasonable and will stand on it's own in ANY international court.

Whatever you say about the trustworthyness of these judges does not matter, these are people respected in their field of international law. You can never best them with their knowledge and qualifications for being international court judges.
 

Avenger

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Sure, US should at least say something to support you. did they say any thing?

PS. LAW is made by and for superpowers, so as the UN.
Do you think any country can the jugde of China?
Do you know that the united states has a lot to gain by helping the philippines?

Natural Gas. 2.7 trillion cubic meters on one existing site. 4 major areas with potential natgas deposits that i know of, estimates on one site will exceed 2.7 trillion cbm, studies show.

Oil. South china sea disputed area is said to contain large deposits of oil. Majority of deposits are contained in the areas where it should be philippine territory.

Gold, plus resources like copper, nickel, manganese, chromite, molybdenum, etc. the philippines is one of the most richest countries in the world un terms of resources. Rough estimates peg our gold deposits at more that us$1 trillion. Lol. I personally believe there is more.

Location. The us views china as a threat. Because of our location Having a foothold in the philippines means you can have a more secure hold on the south east asian region.

And many more...(WAR ERASES DEBT!!!!)

The US...just by saying they will help defend the Philippines if another country attacks us is probably China's biggest deterrent right now from declaring war.

But with or without the US, the Philippines will still stand and face China on their illegal intrusions in our waters and will fight for our territories in court.
 
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WuMaoCleverbot

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Sure, US should at least say something to support you. did them said any thing?

Were you able to rebutt the facts of my earlier posts? NO.
Does your post contain any helpful information that will reinforce China's claim? NO.
Therefore your post is useless and is just a waste of space in this forums.
Fact is: THE PHILIPPINES IS STILL THE RIGHTFULL OWNER OF SCARBOROUGH. Based of factual evidences stated in previous posts should you backread.
 

s002wjh

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Mod please come here close this thread. nothing civil here just spitting between each other.
 

nrj

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Guys,

Please discuss reasonably. Don't make it look like a junior school debate.
 
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China's propaganda war

The most popular Filipino in China today is "a retired investment and merchant banker, a retired Certified Public Accountant, and a retired economist who loves to dabble in history and political science, among many other interests". His name is "Victor N. Arches II" and he is the reported author of an op-ed article that appeared in the Manila Standard Today on April 28, 2012. The article, "It belongs to China", has been reproduced in its entirety in hundreds, if not thousands, of print publications and online news sites all over China.

"Even Filipino admits Huangyan Island belongs to China!" is typical of the introduction to the article in English or in Chinese Pinyin character.

Just who exactly is this "Victor N. Arches II"? Ever since it appeared in the Manila Standard Today, I have been scouring the Internet to find out who he is anything but I found nothing. I could not even find a single Filipino with that surname. The closest I got was a "Victor Arch" from Indonesia who graduated from a university in Jakarta in 1994 but his postings in Facebook are in Bahasa Indonesia.

He could be a real person but if he had written an article in the past, it would surely have surfaced in the Internet. If he graduated from any college or university in the Philippines or if he ever worked as a CPA in the Philippines, his name would invariably have appeared somewhere in the Internet and a search engine would have surely tracked it.
It is also suspicious that he would use "II" instead of "Jr." which is what most Filipinos are accustomed to.

My suspicion about the true identity of the author was also aroused by the style and substance of the article which was uncannily similar to the way Chinese articles have dealt with the subject.

Consider his opening paragraph: "The Scarborough Shoal does belong to China which discovered it and drew it in a map as early as 1279 during the Yuan Dynasty. Chinese fishermen, from both the Mainland and Taiwan, have since used it. As a matter of fact, Guo Shoujing, (the Chinese astronomer, engineer and mathematician who worked under the Mongol ruler, Kublai Khan) performed surveying of the South China Sea, and the surveying point was the Scarborough Shoal which is considered part of the Zhongsha Islands (renamed Huangyan Island in 1983). By contrast, the "old maps" being relied upon by our Department of Foreign Affairs in its spurious claim on the same territory were drawn up only in 1820, or 541 years after China's."

An article which recently appeared in the official China government publication, Xinhua News, entitled "Solid evidence supports China's sovereignty claim over Huangyan Island" starts with similar information and was written in the same prose style: "In the 13th century, Emperor Kublai Khan of China's Yuan Dynasty assigned an astronomer named Guo Shoujing to conduct a territory survey to unify the calendar nationwide, said Li Guoqiang, deputy director of the Research Center for Chinese Borderland History and Geography of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, a government think tank."
Ironically enough, China's claim to ownership of the Scarborough Shoal — based on historical maps — was debunked by the Philippines top Maoist, Jose Maria Sison, founder of the Communist Party of the Philippines, who described the claim as an "absurdity". "This would be like Italy claiming all areas previously occupied by the Roman Empire," Sison said.

It would be like Macedonia laying claim to the Persian Empire (Iran) based on a map drawn by Alexander the Great in 338 B.C. It would be like China laying claim to America based on an old map drawn by Admiral Zheng He, for Emperor Zhu Di, in 1421as described in the New York Times bestseller by Gavin Menzies entitled "1421: The Year China Discovered America".

China can plant "It belongs to China" articles in Philippine publications but the Philippines cannot hope to have even one article published anywhere in China that questions China's claim to the Scarborough Shoal or to the Spratlys. That is the decided advantage of a totalitarian dictatorship – which does not allow freedom of the press - over a democracy.


Writers from China can regularly post their comments in articles critical of China that appear in online Philippie publications such as this comment about my article which appeared last week ("Stand up to China or kneel and beg for mercy"): "we don't need Filipino care workers' product too, we don't know why Ph export to china more than china export to Ph and Ph earn much money from china do not use to Improve the people's livelihood instead of oppose with china, how stupid Ph pigs, you can choose kneel and beg for mercy to USA, and you do, you are always the dog of USA, we don't wanna feed you again."

While the 1.3 billion people of China are unified behind their government's claim to the Scarborough Shoal, the same cannot be said for the 100 million people of the Philippines at home and abroad.

In an interview with ABS-CBN Balitang America on May 8, San Francisco-based Racquel Redondiez, former Secretary-General of Bayan USA and current Gabriela USA Chair, said that her group would boycott the May 11 global protest against China because the dispute with China is just "a conflict between siblings or friends".

"The China threat is being used by the U.S. to actually further trample on the Philippines' national sovereignty," Redondiez charged.

But Redondiez is mild compared to Washington DC-based Adolfo Paglinawan who has been apoplectic in his vitriolic denunciations of Filipinos critical of China's intrusion in the Scarborough Shoal. In his email comments posted in various elists, Paglinawan has blamed the US Pinoys for Good Governance (USP4GG) for provoking China into imposing economic sanctions against the Philippines.

He has demanded that President Benigno S. Aquino (whom he derisively calls "Penoy") purge his cabinet of officials who have been critical of China starting with Commission on Filipinos Overseas (CFO) Chair Imelda Nicolas because she is the sister of USP4GG national chair, Loida Nicolas-Lewis.

Paglinawan told ABS-CBN Washington DC correspondent Rodney Jaleco in a TV interview on May 11: "I would not be surprised if China files a diplomatic protest for the obvious conspiracy between the government and its fronts in foreign lands." If China heeds Paglinawan's advice, he would be China's main witness against the Philippines.

Paglinawan's cohort in Canada, Romy Marquez, described in his YouTube postings the May 11 protest of Filipino-Canadians in front of the China Consulate in Toronto as "less than two dozen marching in a circle" in a "lacklustre rally". Marquez claimed that because of the low participation, the protest rally "failed to live up to its billing as a global protest".

Marquez failed to understand that it was a "global protest" because there were simultaneous protest rallies against China on May 11 by Filipinos in cities all over the world, from Makati and Angeles City to Guam, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Vancouver, Chicago, New York, Washington DC, Paris, Switzerland, Ireland, South Africa, South Korea, Hong Kong and other world cities.

While the formidable challenge of China can be daunting and intimidating, I take comfort from an email message from a Philippine Science High School classmate, Vince Ragay, who expressed appreciation of our global efforts "applying an approach taken from Sun Tzu himself: gathering sympathy and support from neighbors and allies to pre-empt an enemy attack".

"Yes, it can come to a bloody turn as it has done so in the past," Vince wrote. "But I believe that God in Heaven protects our shores and our people. Just as David claimed victory even before he struck Goliath, we, as believers, can also claim the same victory we will have if we remain faithful and steadfast. It is not a mere test of our political, legal or military capabilities but also of our inner stability as children of God. Will God forsake His children when the infidels surround them? History has many lessons we still haven't truly learned and applied."


"We have friends and sympathizers within China, for certain. Prayers and protests may seem like incongruous twins in this issue; but I dare say that whatever the Lord has put in your heart to do on this matter, please do it with all of your might."

Thank you, Vince.

Mabuhay ang Pilipinas.

-----------------------------------
"As for the enemies of freedom, those who are potential adversaries, they will be reminded that peace is the highest aspiration of the American people. We will negotiate for it, sacrifice for it; we will not surrender for it, now or ever." - Ronald Reagan - US President
 
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Oblaks

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http://opinion.manilastandardtoday.com/2012/05/22/it-does-not-belong-to-china/

Likewise, the treaties that Mr. Arches spoke of do not support the claim that the shoal belongs to China. The agreements between the three colonial powers simply delineated the limits of Philippine sovereignty. Nowhere in the treaties did the authors proclaim China as the sovereign of the Shoal. Just because the treaties limited the Philippines' area of responsibility does not mean that the shoal and Spratly Islands belong to China. Besides, one of the "limiting" agreements that Mr. Arches mentioned, the Convention of 1930, is just a convention. As Mr. Arches pointed out, a convention "cannot overturn or supersede a treaty." The UNCLOS, on the other hand, is not "a mere convention"; it is also a treaty which a total of 162 governments signed or ratified. It is for this reason that UNCLOS is often referred to as the Law of the Sea Treaty.
 

Oblaks

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http://opinion.manilastandardtoday.com/2012/05/22/it-does-not-belong-to-china/

Likewise, the treaties that Mr. Arches spoke of do not support the claim that the shoal belongs to China. The agreements between the three colonial powers simply delineated the limits of Philippine sovereignty. Nowhere in the treaties did the authors proclaim China as the sovereign of the Shoal. Just because the treaties limited the Philippines' area of responsibility does not mean that the shoal and Spratly Islands belong to China. Besides, one of the "limiting" agreements that Mr. Arches mentioned, the Convention of 1930, is just a convention. As Mr. Arches pointed out, a convention "cannot overturn or supersede a treaty." The UNCLOS, on the other hand, is not "a mere convention"; it is also a treaty which a total of 162 governments signed or ratified. It is for this reason that UNCLOS is often referred to as the Law of the Sea Treaty.
 

ice berg

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Why are you still embarrass your-self.

An international convention is pr definition a treaty.

The statute for the International Court of Justice clear states that it shall" apply international conventions, whether general or particular.. "

No need to make a fool out of your-self just because you dont know that a convention= treaty. :thumb:
 

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