ISRO's Project Soorya - Next Generation Launch Vehicle (NGLV) development program

[TopWatcher]

12 years for a rocket less capable than even Falcon 9 seems underwhelming.

ISRO not going to create space vehicle just to better than vehicle around the world.

It will create as per requirement.

 

[Tejbrahmastra]

12 years for a rocket less capable than even Falcon 9 seems underwhelming.

Marginally better than Falcon 9 Block 5 made in 2018( in terms of pure payload capacity) but far inferior in terms of efficiency( F9 Block 5 weights 560 tones vs 700 tones for NGLV)

 

[FalconSlayers]

ISRO not going to create space vehicle just to better than vehicle around the world.

It will create as per requirement.

ISRO requirement is crewed lunar landing by 2040, good luck doing that with NGLV or even with NGLV-H if it ever takes off before 2040.

 

[mokoman]

12 years for a rocket less capable than even Falcon 9 seems underwhelming.

could be cheaper than falcon 9 .

wikipedia says launch cost maybe $1900 / kg , for falcon 9 $2700 / kg , dont know if for LEO/GEO , anyone know ?

 

[Samej Jangir]

ISRO requirement is crewed lunar landing by 2040, good luck doing that with NGLV or even with NGLV-H if it ever takes off before 2040.

These are just hypes. Real aim of ISRO is to develop good launch vehicles so that India can launch heavy GSAT to GEO without French or other country's rockets. Strategic use for communication & defence is the key aim. I don't see India ever needing more than 8ton payload for GTO for strategic purposes. Making big rockets have a disadvantage that it will always consume more fuel even when the payload is low.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Actually urgency to develop heavy launch GTO vehicle has gone away due to development of Electric propulsion satellites. The heaviest commercial satellites in GSO orbit were around six tonnes. With development of Electric satellites weight has fallen by almost 60% to 2.4 tonnes. similar thing happened with PSLV, isro was aiming at 1000 KG in SSO orbit and heavier version of PSLV can do 2000 kgs in SSO orbit, but due to induction of Israeli technology now the satellite weight around 500–600 KG. Off course some radar satellites are still in the range of 2000 KG.

Anyhow, Sce engine is massively delayed. There is no prospect of, completion of development, test launches, and then commercial use being completed soon, means that SCE engine based launch will be realised only in 2030.

Due to difficulty in engineering, the SCE of Ukrainian design, ISRO might rely on Russian SCE engines or even take Russian help in new SCE or Ukrainian SCE engine version.

Anyhow, even SCE Based on Kerosene engine is now slightly outdated even before development because the world is moving onto methox engine due to the success of SpaceX as methalox engines are inherently reusable.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Actually urgency to develop heavy launch GTO vehicle has gone away due to development of Electric propulsion satellites. The heaviest commercial satellites in GSO orbit were around six tonnes. With development of Electric satellites weight has fallen by almost 60% to 2.4 tonnes. similar thing happened with PSLV, isro was aiming at 1000 KG in SSO orbit and heavier version of PSLV can do 2000 kgs in SSO orbit, but due to induction of Israeli technology now the satellite weight around 500–600 KG. Off course some radar satellites are still in the range of 2000 KG.

Anyhow, Sce engine is massively delayed. There is no prospect of, completion of development, test launches, and then commercial use being completed soon, means that SCE engine based launch will be realised only in 2030.

Due to difficulty in engineering, the SCE of Ukrainian design, ISRO might rely on Russian SCE engines or even take Russian help in new SCE or Ukrainian SCE engine version.

Anyhow, even SCE Based on Kerosene engine is now slightly outdated even before development because the world is moving onto methox engine due to the success of SpaceX as methalox engines are inherently reusable.

GS interviewed Dr Somanath and he says NGLV is Methalox. SCE-200 is only for LVM3 upgrade.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

ISRO has not even finalised Drawings of methalox engine. Therefore, there is no possibility of commercial deployment of methalox engine before 2040. Though this timeline might be shortened a bit by collaborating with Russians

Even Russians have not deployed a Methalox engine but with their experience in liquid fuelled kerosene engines, they seem to be well ahead in developing Methalox engines

 

[Anupu]

ISRO has not even finalised Drawings of methalox engine. Therefore, there is no possibility of commercial deployment of methalox engine before 2040. Though this timeline might be shortened a bit by collaborating with Russians

Even Russians have not deployed a Methalox engine but with their experience in liquid fuelled kerosene engines, they seem to be well ahead in developing Methalox engines

They are planning a GG stage engine, shouldn't take too much time. No need for Russian help.

 

[FalconSlayers]

ISRO has not even finalised Drawings of methalox engine. Therefore, there is no possibility of commercial deployment of methalox engine before 2040. Though this timeline might be shortened a bit by collaborating with Russians

Even Russians have not deployed a Methalox engine but with their experience in liquid fuelled kerosene engines, they seem to be well ahead in developing Methalox engines

They were testing LOX-Methane engine last year.

 

[Varoon2]

These are just hypes. Real aim of ISRO is to develop good launch vehicles so that India can launch heavy GSAT to GEO without French or other country's rockets

Has ISRO stopped using the services of Arianespace? It would appear that way, at least no announcements of procured/ contracted launches in the coming year. It can probably be said that there will be at most 2 or 3 more. Possibly none.

 

[Samej Jangir]

Has ISRO stopped using the services of Arianespace? It would appear that way, at least no announcements of procured/ contracted launches in the coming year. It can probably be said that there will be at most 2 or 3 more. Possibly none.

ISRO needlessly hired French rocket for GSAT 24 or CMS 2 which was fully leased to Tata. It had weight of 4184kg. With minor reduction in weight to 4000kg, it could have been easily launched by GSLV Mk2 (LVM3).

India had pulled out of GSAT-11 launch at the last minute due to fear of some technical glitch. France had then pressed India to either pay penalty or guarantee 2 additional launches to cover the cost. India had agreed to launch 2 satellites GSAT 30 & GSAT 31 from France as compensation. Despite this episode, India still choosing to use French service for CMS02 was bizarre.

So, we can't really say if India won't use French rockets again considering this event. This is why it is critical for India to develop a reliable launch vehicle that can be assembled and launched quickly without needing long months of preparations and can also carry reasonable payload so that French or other foreign service need not be used again

 

[TopWatcher]

 

[FalconSlayers]

NGLV with expendable S200 boosters is a variant under considerations.

 

[FalconSlayers]

From new slides

 

[FalconSlayers]

Twin S-250 strap-on boosters variant probably. Wish it could be like this, Falcon Heavy equivalent.

 

[Blademaster]

From new slides
View attachment 232874

I think they goofed up. The quoted capacity figures should be swapped with LEO. In GTO, the capacity is 8.9 tons in expendable mode and 5.2 tons in barge landing. For LEO, it is 16.9 tons expendable, 9.9 tons barge landing and 7.7 tons return to site mode.

 

[Lonewolf]

12 years for a rocket less capable than even Falcon 9 seems underwhelming.

Kerolox vs metholox, no brainer it's gonna be heavier, less payload and will be bigger in dimensions, but only plus part is it paves way for starship type stuff in future also but another issue is it's gas generator cycle and less efficient than closed cycle, sce 200 can provide us a experience to build upon for a raptor type engine in future

 

[Swesh]

View attachment 231842

@Vamsi when you observe the diameter of 4.8m & 88m for LEO version of NGLV( there are 2 versions of NGLV, for LEO version upper stage is LM50 & GTO version of NGLV,upper stage is C32), it has the total propellant loading of 445t in 1st stage + 120t in 2nd stage & 50t in 3rd stage, so total propellant loading is 615t,but for this propellant loading, a vehicle with the dia of 4.8m,height should be atleast 10 to 15 m less i.e it should be between 75-78m,but here we have 88m height, based on this and fact that we have plans for crewed moon mission, I am assuming that actual propellant loading the first stage must be 615t not 445t
[USER=34937]@FalconSlayers
@Anonymous Bharata

 

[Swesh]

@Vamsi when you observe the diameter of 4.8m & 88m for LEO version of NGLV( there are 2 versions of NGLV, for LEO version upper stage is LM50 & GTO version of NGLV,upper stage is C32), it has the total propellant loading of 445t in 1st stage + 120t in 2nd stage & 50t in 3rd stage, so total propellant loading is 615t,but for this propellant loading, a vehicle with the dia of 4.8m,height should be atleast 10 to 15 m less i.e it should be between 75-78m,but here we have 88m height, based on this and fact that we have plans for crewed moon mission, I am assuming that actual propellant loading the first stage must be 615t not 445t
@FalconSlayers @Anonymous Bharat

now if we develop a heavy version of NGLV (like falcon-heavy) with 3 cores cores each with 615t of propellant loading, then we can do a crewed moon mission just like how chinese are planning to do with longmarch-10,