ISRO General News and Updates

[Swesh]

This is inde3d confusing, if they are trying to get crew module from outside then is this test just for crew abort system? The crew module they d3veloped -is that just a place holder?

Using mockup for this test

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Agree with this, but until you do this you haven't done it....there are only 3 countries that actually did it to this day independently and India must do this before they go moon manned talking.

Given that they have developed proper roadmap for all required technologies for sustained human spaceflight, conceptual study of long term missions like manned moon landing is obvious.

Reason I quoted you was that quantification of 2040 for moon landing would be more measurable depending on when they do manned mission to space. Ofcourse talk is also fine to bring public awareness, so nothing wrong.

No, it won't be so. India's moon landing timeline will be defined by number of unmanned robotic moon landers (heavy ones in league of gemini and space hours Indian Vyomanauts will have on space station after 2030). Whether Gaganyaan happens in 2025 or 2028 has little impact on timeline. So no, first Gaganyaan is not sufficient to measure estimate timeline but Chandrayaan-5 & beyond + Gaganyaan + SPADEX + SHLV design freeze is. They all should happen at whatever time before 2030.

^^^
The language in the interview is a bit confusing. The crew module is being developed in India, but the capability doesn't exist, so it has to be procured from outside. But the parts or components are not forthcoming from those countries ( Russia, France, the U.S) or are very expensive etc.

So is the entire crew module being imported? That's hard to believe. Or is it a majority of components, or a large number of components. I thought the windows, seats and some other items are imports, but that most of the CM is Indian made. Clarity needed here!

Some components as usual and not entire crew module is being imported. Indian crew module is anyway developed from Russia's Soyuz. So is China's.[/QUOTE]

 

[omaebakabaka]

No, it won't be so. India's moon landing timeline will be defined by number of unmanned robotic moon landers (heavy ones in league of gemini and space hours Indian Vyomanauts will have on space station after 2030). Whether Gaganyaan happens in 2025 or 2028 has little impact on timeline. So no, first Gaganyaan is not sufficient to measure estimate timeline but Chandrayaan-5 & beyond + Gaganyaan + SPADEX + SHLV design freeze is. They all should happen at whatever time before 2030.

That intersects with what I said somewhat but its strange that you think sending unmanned landers is the key determinant, only one country so far sent a manned mission to moon and that deed was not repeated till now and they have way more experience than ISRO in space. Crew experience in space and technologies related to that from sustaining and rescue and emergency and so on are all key factors. It can't be like we send crew to space in 2035 and then to moon in 2040, earlier you send more chances of 2040.....failures are more significant so unknowns will have to be resolved and that takes experience. In the best case we import tech from Russia, even then our own experience is the key. Based on ISRO timelines in the past, 2040 is quite ambitious but not impossible. It is also based on whether other countries attempt in the near future in terms of competition.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

its strange that you think sending unmanned landers is the key determinant, only one country so far sent a manned mission to moon and that deed was not repeated till now and they have way more experience than ISRO in space.

It isn't strange in anyway but obvious requirement. It's not 60s race just to touch down on moon and safety remains priority. Technologies used in cold were largely analogue, costly and sometimes even risky. Manuevers required for a manned moon mission would take ISRO twice as much time to learn as they consume in human spaceflight.

So, Heavy unmanned robotic landers and return missions will be the key determinant of India's manned moon mission if India doesn't have pressure to throw some human lives on moon tomorrow.

Human spaceflight capability is all about life support which IMO is not even 10% of criticality required in a manned extra terrestrial mission which is all about highly synchronized and robotic docking abilities. Human spaceflight is just a bare minimum requirement for mission to be called "manned". Safety risks are less about life support and more about robotic capabilities.

 

[dfcool]

need of hour

 

[omaebakabaka]

It isn't strange in anyway but obvious requirement. It's not 60s race just to touch down on moon and safety remains priority. Technologies used in cold were largely analogue, costly and sometimes even risky. Manuevers required for a manned moon mission would take ISRO twice as much time to learn as they consume in human spaceflight.

So, Heavy unmanned robotic landers and return missions will be the key determinant of India's manned moon mission if India doesn't have pressure to throw some human lives on moon tomorrow.

Human spaceflight capability is all about life support which IMO is not even 10% of criticality required in a manned extra terrestrial mission which is all about highly synchronized and robotic docking abilities. Human spaceflight is just a bare minimum requirement for mission to be called "manned". Safety risks are less about life support and more about robotic capabilities.

That is why manned missions and docking tech along with it and related experience is a must (I mentioned this in my first post)....most proven way to build and most practical is to do that in near space like ISS, China's or previous US and Russian space programmes before any moon manned attempts are made. One time doing it isn't going to cut it either as any failure will cause immense damage to ISRO...they need to do this before 2030's to gain enough experience for 2040 goal, manned mission to moon is more of a stunt than anything else but necessary to be in the race.

 

[indiatester]

Some comic relief

For those who don't get the reference:

 

[TopWatcher]

need of hour

Govt need to understand this. Ambition is directly proportional to budget .

 

[indiatester]

 

[Varoon2]

Resourcesat-1, launched in Oct/2003, is still working very well! How did they do it? I thought this stopped functioning in 2013!

20 Years of Excellence: IRS-P6 Celebrates Historic Anniversary

 

[omaebakabaka]

Idk where to post but this is the strategic thinking coming straight from the top and reflects the ambition. Glad to see ISRO with 2040 goal....I wish DRDO sets targets and not eternal testing and PM setting targets directly for IA,F, N

Putin gives instructions to prepare proposals for megascience installations

According to the statement, the order must be implemented by February 15, 2024

tass.com

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Idk where to post

Post it in NASA and other global space agencies thread

 

[Blademaster]

USA put a man on the moon within a decade of launching its first rocket into orbit and that was after JKF's declaration of putting a man on the moon before the end of the decade. All the timelines and milestones you are quoting reeks of bureaucratic red tape and hand wringing and putting up roadblocks like straightout of a CIA handbook of how to derail a national project.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

USA put a man on the moon within a decade of launching its first rocket into orbit and that was after JKF's declaration of putting a man on the moon before the end of the decade. All the timelines and milestones you are quoting reeks of bureaucratic red tape and hand wringing and putting up roadblocks like straightout of a CIA handbook of how to derail a national project.

Those timelines had little to do with bureaucratic tapes & utility and more with politics.

Our space program doesn't have a political angle and we wish a sustained program with manageable financial costs than a moon landing for no reason and then randomly close space program like US did.

We don't have to forget either that in aerospace, we are behind what US was in 70s. Indian space program today is largely a product of a progess made in late 90s and early 2000s. Otherwise, it was no different from Iran.

 

[SKC]

USA put a man on the moon within a decade of launching its first rocket into orbit and that was after JKF's declaration of putting a man on the moon before the end of the decade. All the timelines and milestones you are quoting reeks of bureaucratic red tape and hand wringing and putting up roadblocks like straightout of a CIA handbook of how to derail a national project.

They spent close to~10% of GDP year on year during that decade on NASA.

They employed over 4lacs engineers of various fields, countless men in non-science fields.

Remember what JFK said:
"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard,"

 

[Blademaster]

They spent close to~10% of GDP year on year during that decade on NASA.

They employed over 4lacs engineers of various fields, countless men in non-science fields.

Remember what JFK said:
"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard,"

They did not spend 10% of the gdp. You are confusing that spending with the spending on Vietnam war.

You are way off with the percentage of the GDP.
They only spent $25b total on Project Apollo which adjusted for 2020 inflation was around $257 billion from 1960 to 1973. Divide $257B by 13 years gives us $20B in 2020 terms per year. That’s like around 0.1% of the GDP.

The gdp of US in 1969 was around $1.1 T. The budget of NASA was $4.5B in 1969. That gives you a percentage of 0.4% of the GDP. Hardly anywhere near that 10% of the GDP figure.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

They did not spend 10% of the gdp. You are confusing that spending with the spending on Vietnam war.

You are way off with the percentage of the GDP.
They only spent $25b total on Project Apollo which adjusted for 2020 inflation was around $257 billion from 1960 to 1973. Divide $257B by 13 years gives us $20B in 2020 terms per year. That’s like around 0.1% of the GDP.

The gdp of US in 1969 was around $1.1 T. The budget of NASA was $4.5B in 1969. That gives you a percentage of 0.4% of the GDP. Hardly anywhere near that 10% of the GDP figure.

$257 billion adjusted today though not 10%, that's much higher percentage what is spent on space globally in 21st century. Space budgets of US & USSR were comparable to GDP percentage at that time what defense budgets are today.

As for NASA, can you ensure $4.5 billions TOTAL budget with a source please that $4.5 billions was not just operational budget and included special mission grants? (like here Gaganyaan budgets are separate from ISRO's existing $1.8 billions operational budget).

 

[Swesh]

RHU is flown on propulsion module to test spaceworthiness

Roaming on the Moon

Prof. Santosh Vadawale (Physical Research Laboratory, Ahmedabad)

www.youtube.com

Timestamp 1:26:17 play with caption on

 

[SKC]

They did not spend 10% of the gdp. You are confusing that spending with the spending on Vietnam war.

You are way off with the percentage of the GDP.
They only spent $25b total on Project Apollo which adjusted for 2020 inflation was around $257 billion from 1960 to 1973. Divide $257B by 13 years gives us $20B in 2020 terms per year. That’s like around 0.1% of the GDP.

The gdp of US in 1969 was around $1.1 T. The budget of NASA was $4.5B in 1969. That gives you a percentage of 0.4% of the GDP. Hardly anywhere near that 10% of the GDP figure.

I was off but not by that large margin:
NASA Budget from late 1950s till late 1960s:

Calendar Year	NASA budget
Nominal Dollars​	% of Fed Budget[5][6]​	2022 Constant Dollars​
	(Millions)​		(Millions)​
1958​	89​	0.10%​	903​
1959​	145​	0.20%​	1,456​
1960​	401​	0.50%​	3,967​
1961​	744​	0.90%​	7,286​
1962​	1,257​	1.18%​	12,161​
1963​	2,552​	2.29%​	24,394​
1964​	4,171​	3.52%​	39,356​
1965​	5,092​	4.31%​	47,285​
1966​	5,933​	4.41%​	53,513​
1967​	5,425​	3.45%​	47,612​
1968​	4,722​	2.65%​	39,737​
1969​	4,251​	2.31%​	33,923​

It reached ~4.5% for 2 years and then scaled back to above 2% once Budget started to divert to Vietnam.

 

[SKC]

$257 billion adjusted today though not 10%, that's much higher percentage what is spent on space globally in 21st century. Space budgets of US & USSR were comparable to GDP percentage at that time what defense budgets are today.

As for NASA, can you ensure $4.5 billions TOTAL budget with a source please that $4.5 billions was not just operational budget and included special mission grants? (like here Gaganyaan budgets are separate from ISRO's existing $1.8 billions operational budget).

You seem to be right. I just checked apart from regular NASA budget, The complete Apollo program had its own funding.

Different estimate says as low as ~$25B to as high as ~$48B. Different guys said different values in US Congress hearing over the years.