ISRO General News and Updates

[Okabe Rintarou]

The most important which many people ignore is acceleration.700N is very low,thus it will have very very low acceleration.For comparison CY-2's Vikram Lander has five 800N engines. If you want to go to mars in 30 days instead of 6-9 months, you have to use high energy transfer orbits, for which you need both high thrust & high Isp. If you use a 700N engine it will take a very very long time to change orbit.

Ofcourse a high thrust, high isp engine is the best. And there is usually always the trade off that the high isp thrusters (like ion thrusters) have abysmally low thrust and chemical rockets have high thrust but low isp.

And that is what fusion drives are eventually meant to overcome.

Ofcourse this fusion drive won't take you to Mars in 30 days. Only a torchdrive with a brachistochrone trajectory would achieve that kind of fast travel. But it is sufficient for 4 months to Mars instead of the traditional 9 months. Are you saying that the gas fission reactor rocket won't be taking a Hohmann transfer orbit to Mars?

 

[Vamsi]

Ofcourse a high thrust, high isp engine is the best. And there is usually always the trade off that the high isp thrusters (like ion thrusters) have abysmally low thrust and chemical rockets have high thrust but low isp.

And that is what fusion drives are eventually meant to overcome.

Ofcourse this fusion drive won't take you to Mars in 30 days. Only a torchdrive with a brachistochrone trajectory would achieve that kind of fast travel. But it is sufficient for 4 months to Mars instead of the traditional 9 months.

Still 700N thrust for a spacecraft weight atleast 100tons is very very low.

Are you saying that the gas fission reactor rocket won't be taking a Hohmann transfer orbit to Mars?

Depends on the mission planning.But, technically it can be used for High Energy Transfer Orbits, which means we don't need to wait for Launch window of 26 months, because they have higher thrust in the range of MN and higher specific impulse in the range of 2000sec

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Still 700N thrust for a spacecraft weight atleast 100tons is very very low.

Dude, they did the mission planning already. Its not for traveling up and down a gravity well, so its sufficient. 4 months travel time to Mars is also doable.

Depends on the mission planning.But, technically it can be used for High Energy Transfer Orbits, which means we don't need to wait for Launch window of 26 months, because they have higher thrust in the range of MN and higher specific impulse in the range of 2000sec

MN range thrust!? At 2000 sec ISP? That feels like torchdrive level performance. But the radioactive fuel is still scary.....

 

[Blademaster]

Ofcourse a high thrust, high isp engine is the best. And there is usually always the trade off that the high isp thrusters (like ion thrusters) have abysmally low thrust and chemical rockets have high thrust but low isp.

And that is what fusion drives are eventually meant to overcome.

Ofcourse this fusion drive won't take you to Mars in 30 days. Only a torchdrive with a brachistochrone trajectory would achieve that kind of fast travel. But it is sufficient for 4 months to Mars instead of the traditional 9 months. Are you saying that the gas fission reactor rocket won't be taking a Hohmann transfer orbit to Mars?

Can you tell me what a 30 day trip to Mars would entail? What kind of orbital path are we talking about? What kind of thrust are we talking about to pull off to accelerate to that kind of speed? How fast we are talking about? And what kind of thrust do we need to decelerate to get into orbit of Mars?

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Can you tell me what a 30 day trip to Mars would entail? What kind of orbital path are we talking about? What kind of thrust are we talking about to pull off to accelerate to that kind of speed? How fast we are talking about? And what kind of thrust do we need to decelerate to get into orbit of Mars?

Like I said, it would be a brachistochrone trajectory meaning your spacecraft would be thrusting the ENTIRE duration of the journey. You are accelerating towards your destination for the first half of the journey, then you cut thrust, flip your spaceship around and start decelerating towards your destination till you reach it. This way you get to your destination in the shortest time possible. Also, you don't have to wait for transfer windows, unlike what happens IRL with hohmann transfer trajectories.
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This can only be achieved by a torchdrive. i.e. its normally not possible within the limits of current understanding of future materials. Torchdrives are stuff that you'd see in hard science fiction (not Star Wars). One very extreme example of what these would actually look like is the Epstien Drive from The Expanse, which is an Inertial Confinement Fusion Drive with insanse specific impulse and thrust. Scott Manley here explains what kind of travel times a drive that powerful would give us when driven at its most extreme:-


That is basically Phobos to Voyager 1 in 80 days. Ofcourse normally humans don't survive such accelerations for so long, so normally, ships in The Expanse take around a couple of weeks to travel interplanetary distances, about the same that modern ocean vessels take for intercontinental distances. During this travel, the spaceship is under thrust continuously so its occupants get to have "gravity" for the entire duration of the journey. So travelling to Mars in 30 days would look something like that. Instead of taking the hohmann transfer orbit, which minimizes impulse spent, instead of time.

Although, the gas fission reactor rocket @Vamsi mentions might be able to achieve Earth to Mars in couple months of travel time using Hohmann Transfer Orbit.

 

[TopWatcher]

Shared by @Karthi on Twitter
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Why it can't be ISRO plan ?

 

[mokoman]

Shared by @Karthi on Twitter
View attachment 171087

this is from a journal published in 2010 .

forgot mars i hope we can get a guy into space this decade.

 

[Heat]

I would rather like to have our resources being spent on moon landings, locating water and developing ways to extract it from the moon regolith and a subsequent manned/automated moon base that could be used to launch further missions to the solar system periphery.

Mars is a lost cause when it comes to expanding our reach in the solar system, at least for the next 100 years, imho.

 

[Photon]

Updates - Arianespace

www.arianespace.com

 

[Blademaster]

I would rather like to have our resources being spent on moon landings, locating water and developing ways to extract it from the moon regolith and a subsequent manned/automated moon base that could be used to launch further missions to the solar system periphery.

Mars is a lost cause when it comes to expanding our reach in the solar system, at least for the next 100 years, imho.

To achieve the extraordinary, we must dare and dream the impossible. Or "My failure was greater than any of the successes of my contemporaries"

 

[Vamsi]

1st unmanned Gaganyaan slipped to early 2024 @Swesh @Indx TechStyle @Okabe Rintarou and others

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

1st unmanned Gaganyaan slipped to early 2024 @Swesh @Indx TechStyle @Okabe Rintarou and others

When Modi announced that the real deal will happen by 2022, I was skeptical yet hopeful. But when covid happened, I thought it won't happen till 2025. And now it looks like it will happen in 2026.
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Meanwhile, Space Station, MOM-2, SCE-200, HLV all getting delayed similarly I guess? The only expectation I have now is that PSLV launch frequency will pick up.

 

[Vamsi]

When Modi announced that the real deal will happen by 2022, I was skeptical yet hopeful. But when covid happened, I thought it won't happen till 2025. And now it looks like it will happen in 2026.
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Meanwhile, Space Station, MOM-2, SCE-200, HLV all getting delayed similarly I guess? The only expectation I have now is that PSLV launch frequency will pick up.

Some are saying that manned flight won't happen untill 2028. 1st inflight abort test was actually planned to happen this month, but it's delayed to December this year

As far as PSLV is concerned, I am not at all hopeful about the launch frequency.

I don't think Venus mission will happen in 2026, I think it will be delayed to 2031. They can launch it 2026, only if they get approval this year which I don't see coming.

Mangalyaan-2 may also be delayed to post 2030.
HLV will also be post 2030....Only major missions we will be getting soon will be Aditya-L1 & CY-3

 

[Blademaster]

Why is ISRO so slow in executing these projects? It is like they have no sense of urgency. It is just time pass and chalta hai for them.

 

[Vamsi]

Why is ISRO so slow in executing these projects? It is like they have no sense of urgency. It is just time pass and chalta hai for them.

Human Space Flight is not a easy thing, NASA's SLS uses the proven heritage like the SSME, First stage tanks, RL-10 engines etc...still SLS is facing delays...

 

[Blademaster]

Human Space Flight is not a easy thing, NASA's SLS uses the proven heritage like the SSME, First stage tanks, RL-10 engines etc...still SLS is facing delays...

Yes but look at SpaceX and the Chinese space industry. They are busy launching over 50 times this year! While ISRO only pulled off two launches or so.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Yes but look at SpaceX and the Chinese space industry. They are busy launching over 50 times this year! While ISRO only pulled off two launches or so.

Streamlined Industrial ecosystem and the ability to shrug off failures. That and larger budgets. At least for PSLV, this is happening in India as well.

Some are saying that manned flight won't happen untill 2028. 1st inflight abort test was actually planned to happen this month, but it's delayed to December this year

As far as PSLV is concerned, I am not at all hopeful about the launch frequency.

I don't think Venus mission will happen in 2026, I think it will be delayed to 2031. They can launch it 2026, only if they get approval this year which I don't see coming.

Mangalyaan-2 may also be delayed to post 2030.
HLV will also be post 2030....Only major missions we will be getting soon will be Aditya-L1 & CY-3

The thing about PSLV is recently Godrej made some statement about how a recent decision of GoI will pave the way for higher PSLV launch frequencies due to industry being involved in all stages of manufacturing. There was always talk of Industry consortium manufacturing PSLV, looks like its finally happening. FLP upgrades PSLV Integration Facility just got completed couple of months ago, so now it can be leveraged to massively increase PSLV launch frequency. That along with operationalizatio of SSLV means our launch frequency will go up. Still, all other projects remain delayed.

 

[omaebakabaka]

Streamlined Industrial ecosystem and the ability to shrug off failures. That and larger budgets. At least for PSLV, this is happening in India as well.


The thing about PSLV is recently Godrej made some statement about how a recent decision of GoI will pave the way for higher PSLV launch frequencies due to industry being involved in all stages of manufacturing. There was always talk of Industry consortium manufacturing PSLV, looks like its finally happening. FLP upgrades PSLV Integration Facility just got completed couple of months ago, so now it can be leveraged to massively increase PSLV launch frequency. That along with operationalizatio of SSLV means our launch frequency will go up. Still, all other projects remain delayed.

All these goals and research should ultimately have a side effect of having a military dimension, otherwise I just don't see a point when we can't defend ourselves or be self sufficient in space and related supply chains. Hope we are not chasing some big league idiotic competition or podiums in priorities.

With DRDO, we want to see induction numbers not just multiplication of number of projects and so on....same with ISRO, GSLV and higher payloads and advanced recon sats in numbers deployed and launches at higher frequency at lower cost

 

[SKC]

Streamlined Industrial ecosystem and the ability to shrug off failures. That and larger budgets. At least for PSLV, this is happening in India as well.


The thing about PSLV is recently Godrej made some statement about how a recent decision of GoI will pave the way for higher PSLV launch frequencies due to industry being involved in all stages of manufacturing. There was always talk of Industry consortium manufacturing PSLV, looks like its finally happening. FLP upgrades PSLV Integration Facility just got completed couple of months ago, so now it can be leveraged to massively increase PSLV launch frequency. That along with operationalizatio of SSLV means our launch frequency will go up. Still, all other projects remain delayed.

We all know that there is Streamlined Industrial ecosystem in US and Strong central support in China.

We all know that there is much much more funding in Both US and China.

but also at the same time ISRO does not have to launch 50 missions each year.

We have lower budget but we also have to do less than 10 missions each year and we are struggling with that too.

We are struggling to cross even 5 launches a year for some time.

Whether a country has big budget or small budget, COVID affected them all equally. But only ISRO got somehow affected worse than all.

 

[Rassil Krishnan]

Why is ISRO so slow in executing these projects? It is like they have no sense of urgency. It is just time pass and chalta hai for them.

my problem was that they have gotten slower since the pandemic for I don't know what reason.is there something i don't know that is happening internally.are they not utilizing resources efficiently,is there a lackof budget,why are they not resuming pslv launches in atleast 8-10 rockets per year like before.shouldn't the advances they made in facilites increase the frequency.i can see why for 1 and a half years this was fine,but even now they are not going back to old ways.