Is the LCH a true attack helicopter or is RUDRA better?

[ninja85]

These are India's two recently developed attack-role helicopters .

RUDRA& LCH

First thought always comes in mind is that what is difference between these two .
Second, They both are attack helicopters but which one of them is better than other .
The RUDRA attack helicopter is multirole weaponised DHRUV and the LCH is entirely attack-role helicopter that means LCH have only task and that is to attack and destroy the enemy . The very reason behind it's development .
But is the LCH is superior in attack-role ?

Lets take a look at them .

COMPARISON
1] General Characteristics :- It doesn't look there is much difference other than a major one i.e. Capacity .

RUDRA

Crew: 1 or 2 pilots
Capacity: 12 passengers (14 passengers with high density seating) or 4 stretchers.
Length: 15.87 m (52 ft 0.8 in)
Rotor diameter: 13.20 m (43 ft 3.7 in)
Height: 4.98 m (16 ft 4.06 in)
Disc area: 137 m² (1,472 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,502 kg (5,515 lb)
Useful load: 2,600 kg (5,731 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 5,500 kg (12,125 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × HAL/Turbomeca Shakti turboshafts, 1,000 kW (1,400 shp)
Alternate engine: 2 x Turbomeca TM 333-2B2 turboshaft, 746 kW (1,000 shp) each

LCH

Crew: 2
Length: 15.8 m (51 ft 8 in)
Rotor diameter: 13.3 m (43 ft 6 in)
Height: 4.7 m (15 ft 4 in)
Disc area: 138.9 m² (1,472 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,250 kg[citation needed] (5,975 lb)
Useful load: 3,350 kg[citation needed] (7,410 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 5,800 kg (12,787 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × HAL/Turbomeca Shakti turboshaft, 1,067 kW (1,430 shp) each

The engine provides power is same in both i.e. HAL/Turbomeca Shakti

2] Performance :- Looks like RUDRA have upper hand but mostly same .

3] Armament :- The one very area where importance of LCH should seen more than RUDRA . But still it's the same .

RUDRA
Guns:
1 x 20mm M621 cannon into the Nexter THL-20 chin mounted gun turret (Air-Force & Army version)
Missiles:
8 Helina (Helicopter-launched Nag) Anti-tank guided missiles (planned for Air-Force & Army version)
4 MBDA Mistral short-range Air-to-air missiles (Air-Force & Army version)
4 x 68 mm or 70 mm Rocket Pods (Air-Force & Army version)
2 Torpedoes or Depth charges(Navy version)
2 Anti-ship missiles (Navy version)

LCH
Guns: 1× 20 mmM621 cannon on Nexter THL-20 turret
Rockets: 60/80 mm calibre rockets[21]
Missiles: air-to-surface, MBDA air-to-air, anti-radiation, and Helina anti-tank missiles
Bombs: Gravity bombs, cluster bombs, grenade launchers

The surveillance , imaging , tracking and targeting devices are same .

In fact, RUDRA looks better equipped .

4] Avionics :-
RUDRA
Elbit CoMPASS optoelectronic suite for reconnaissance and target acquisition
SAAB IDAS-3 self-protection suite

The helicopter is fitted with an integrated defensive aids system (IDAS-3) from SAAB, which delivered the system's components while the aircraft integration was provided by HAL. IDAS-3 utilizes UV missile approach warning sensors, LWS-310 laser warning sensors and RWS-300 radar warning receivers and flare dispensers. Two units are clearly visible on the upper cockpit sides .

70% hardware of these both helicopters are same that may be easier for maintenance but does not gives LCH much of importance .

In the end, there is only one thing to say and that is LCH's final prototype[TD3] yet to be seen and for now only TD1 and TD2 are produced but it is said that there isn't much difference between the latest TD2 and the final prototype TD3 . Hopefully TD3 will emerge as a true attack helicopter .

Guys, hope u like the comparison .
Images from different sources .
More info -
HAL Rudra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
HAL Light Combat Helicopter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rudra Growing Claws - Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News

 

[happy]

If both are using same engines, why is lch top speed less than rudra's?

Is it because of the extra 300 kg difference in mtow?

BTW what is causing that extra 300 kg load?

AFAIK, both aircraft performances should be calculated at same weight to get the exact top speed. But then, @Decklander, @pmaitra, @Ray, @p2prada can shed some light on these things.

And finally, what may be the roles envisaged for these two machines?

One thing that comes to mind about lch is max altitude of operations but, sincerely, that cannot be the only reason for development??

 

[sydsnyper]

I have the same question, if the Rudra can do the same stuff and more than the LCH, why have the LCH. Is it being designed for very specific roles ? Does the LCH have better armor than Rudra ?

 

[pmaitra]

@happy, the top speed would be affected by the gross weight (and thereby the power to weight ratio), and the aerodynamics. There could be other factors as well.

 

[pmaitra]

The Mil-24/35 can carry 8 troops and its own weapons load, and the HAL-Rudra can carry 12 (or 14) passengers and/or its own weapons load? (I think for HAL-Rudra, it is "or," not "and." Need clarification.)

So, let me guess. They are using the term passengers, and not troops, because, perhaps they are talking about average humans, not soldiers with their battle gear, weapons, and ammunition.

We do not know how many troops HAL-Rudra will be able to carry, but I'll be surprised if it can carry more than 8.

One difference between HAL-LCH and HAL-Rudra is that the former has a tandem seating while the latter has an adjacent seating of the gunner and pilot.

 

[sydsnyper]

What about endurance, is the endurance of both aircrafts comparable.

 

[happy]

@mods do we have a similar thread of comparison between lch and rudra? If yes can you pls merge this thread with it.

 

[happy]

The Mil-24/35 can carry 8 troops and its own weapons load, and the HAL-Rudra can carry 12 (or 14) passengers and/or its own weapons load? (I think for HAL-Rudra, it is "or," not "and." Need clarification.)

So, let me guess. They are using the term passengers, and not troops, because, perhaps they are talking about average humans, not soldiers with their battle gear, weapons, and ammunition.

We do not know how many troops HAL-Rudra will be able to carry, but I'll be surprised if it can carry more than 8.

One difference between HAL-LCH and HAL-Rudra is that the former has a tandem seating while the latter has an adjacent seating of the gunner and pilot.

Precisely why asked for roles envisaged. seating and ceiling envelope are the two main things that grab attention.

 

[pmaitra]

@mods do we have a similar thread of comparison between lch and rudra? If yes can you pls merge this thread with it.

I didn't find any. Can you post the link please?

 

[happy]

I didn't find any. Can you post the link please?

Well, I was asking the mods the same thing because I couldn't find any and these machines have been under discussion for a long time.

 

[hitesh]

Don't forget LCH is up armored with bullet protection up to HMG where as Rudra is unarmored even vulnerable to LMG , Rudra will be meant for support role where as LCH will be for attack role ..

 

[bennedose]

There was a news item that I thought was funny and ironic. It was about US soldiers strapping themselves on the outside of Apache helos on a mission to rescue a downed pilot because the Apache does not have a passenger carrying capacity. I have heard people call the Mi-25/35 "not a true attack helo" precisely because it can carry passengers. Rudra can be used for CSAR (Combat Search and rescue) over hostile terrain, but not the LCH.

The roles are different for LCH and Rudra. Rudra can be used for CSAR and to drop troops off in spl ops missions while retaining an attack and defence capability. LCH is teeth alone.

 

[pmaitra]

I have heard people call the Mi-25/35 "not a true attack helo" precisely because it can carry passengers.

Precisely.

Link: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...h-indian-armys-strike-corps-2.html#post271892
Link: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/1332-indian-army-aviation-wing-16.html#post199237

 

[drkrn]

These are India's two recently developed attack-role helicopters .

RUDRA& LCH

First thought always comes in mind is that what is difference between these two .
Second, They both are attack helicopters but which one of them is better than other .
The RUDRA attack helicopter is multirole weaponised DHRUV and the LCH is entirely attack-role helicopter that means LCH have only task and that is to attack and destroy the enemy . The very reason behind it's development .
But is the LCH is superior in attack-role ?

Lets take a look at them .

COMPARISON
1] General Characteristics :- It doesn't look there is much difference other than a major one i.e. Capacity .

RUDRA

Crew: 1 or 2 pilots
Capacity: 12 passengers (14 passengers with high density seating) or 4 stretchers.
Length: 15.87 m (52 ft 0.8 in)
Rotor diameter: 13.20 m (43 ft 3.7 in)
Height: 4.98 m (16 ft 4.06 in)
Disc area: 137 m² (1,472 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,502 kg (5,515 lb)
Useful load: 2,600 kg (5,731 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 5,500 kg (12,125 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × HAL/Turbomeca Shakti turboshafts, 1,000 kW (1,400 shp)
Alternate engine: 2 x Turbomeca TM 333-2B2 turboshaft, 746 kW (1,000 shp) each

LCH

Crew: 2
Length: 15.8 m (51 ft 8 in)
Rotor diameter: 13.3 m (43 ft 6 in)
Height: 4.7 m (15 ft 4 in)
Disc area: 138.9 m² (1,472 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,250 kg[citation needed] (5,975 lb)
Useful load: 3,350 kg[citation needed] (7,410 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 5,800 kg (12,787 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × HAL/Turbomeca Shakti turboshaft, 1,067 kW (1,430 shp) each

The engine provides power is same in both i.e. HAL/Turbomeca Shakti

2] Performance :- Looks like RUDRA have upper hand but mostly same .

3] Armament :- The one very area where importance of LCH should seen more than RUDRA . But still it's the same .

RUDRA
Guns:
1 x 20mm M621 cannon into the Nexter THL-20 chin mounted gun turret (Air-Force & Army version)
Missiles:
8 Helina (Helicopter-launched Nag) Anti-tank guided missiles (planned for Air-Force & Army version)
4 MBDA Mistral short-range Air-to-air missiles (Air-Force & Army version)
4 x 68 mm or 70 mm Rocket Pods (Air-Force & Army version)
2 Torpedoes or Depth charges(Navy version)
2 Anti-ship missiles (Navy version)

LCH
Guns: 1× 20 mmM621 cannon on Nexter THL-20 turret
Rockets: 60/80 mm calibre rockets[21]
Missiles: air-to-surface, MBDA air-to-air, anti-radiation, and Helina anti-tank missiles
Bombs: Gravity bombs, cluster bombs, grenade launchers

The surveillance , imaging , tracking and targeting devices are same .

In fact, RUDRA looks better equipped .

4] Avionics :-
RUDRA
Elbit CoMPASS optoelectronic suite for reconnaissance and target acquisition
SAAB IDAS-3 self-protection suite

The helicopter is fitted with an integrated defensive aids system (IDAS-3) from SAAB, which delivered the system's components while the aircraft integration was provided by HAL. IDAS-3 utilizes UV missile approach warning sensors, LWS-310 laser warning sensors and RWS-300 radar warning receivers and flare dispensers. Two units are clearly visible on the upper cockpit sides .

70% hardware of these both helicopters are same that may be easier for maintenance but does not gives LCH much of importance .

In the end, there is only one thing to say and that is LCH's final prototype[TD3] yet to be seen and for now only TD1 and TD2 are produced but it is said that there isn't much difference between the latest TD2 and the final prototype TD3 . Hopefully TD3 will emerge as a true attack helicopter .

Guys, hope u like the comparison .
Images from different sources .
More info -
HAL Rudra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
HAL Light Combat Helicopter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rudra Growing Claws - Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News

also add respective comparisons of armour,maneuverability,and network centric capabilities
rudra is for supportive use while lch is for front line use

 

[rohit b3]

I just wish both Rudra and LCH would have entered S.Korea's multi billion Dollar Attack helicopter tender. Both offer great technologies for their price.

 

[happy]

Hate to disagree but I just wonder why a heli meant for supportive roles is packing such a lethal punch ???

Wouldn't it be sufficient if we just had defensive equipment instead of offensive ones on the Rudra ??

By that way, it can carry more luggage / persons ????

 

[A chauhan]

Isn't LCH stealthier than Rudra? Moreover it is still in prototype stage. Hopefully it will get better technologies with time.

 

[ninja85]

also add respective comparisons of armour,maneuverability,and network centric capabilities
rudra is for supportive use while lch is for front line use

LCH do have "armour protection" but its not like 'totally' armored that's because to keep it "light-weight" neither they added any extra weapons for the same 'weight' issue but the less weight doesn't improves LCH performance much beyond RUDRA.
however it have stealth "profiling" but it is not a 'stealth fighter'.
This is my point exactly LCH supposed to be attack helicopter but it's neither properly armored nor heavily armed any more than RUDRA and it's as same as RUDRA in maaneuverability.

 

[cloud]

LCH has 20% better rate of climb with max altitude uoto 6500m. Should be useful in fire and scoot type of situation specially at high altitude areas(I'm getting the idea from youtube video of MI17 operation during Kargil war).
More useful payload, Definitely Small(hard to aim at using small arms) and more stealthy with better aerodynamics. With same payload, In real terms performance difference should be visible between 2 machines.
Even though it is called Light attack Heli, it ought to have much better Armor then Rudra.

EDIT: Also I think We are going to have the Rudra as the light version of MI-17. Same as How LCH will be the lighter version of Apache. There could be tasks, which can be effectively done by Rudra at lower cost instead of MI-17, where we don't need the capacity of Mi-17.

If our top brass push hard, Rudra also has a very good potential for Export(better then LCH, as LCH will face tough competition from similar helos). Being a Cheap and multirole Heli Rudra does have more advantage for smaller nations forces.

 

[sayareakd]

I think in emergency you can put one person in ALH armed version................... they have ammo at the back seat space.