Iran out, but Russia eyes Turkey for S-300

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http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Iran_out_but_Russia_eyes_Turkey_for_S-300_999.html

Iran out, but Russia eyes Turkey for S-300

Russia's arms export chief says Moscow hopes to sell Turkey the powerful S-300 air-defense missile system -- and possibly the more advanced S-400 -- after blocking delivery of the weapon to Iran.

"The Turkish army has a great need to acquire S-300 and S-400 systems, Anatoly Isaikin, director of the state-owned arms exporter Rosoboronexport, told the RIA Novosti agency.

Speaking at a defense exhibition in Paris, he disclosed that Russia was prepared to participate in a Turkish tender for missile systems along with Western arms manufacturers.

Last week, Moscow announced it was blocking the delivery of five batteries of S-300PMU systems sold to Tehran in a controversial $800 million contract in 2007. The Russians cited the fourth round of economic sanctions imposed on Iran by the U.N. Security Council June 9 over Tehran's refusal to scrap its alleged nuclear arms program.

Iran was incensed, even though the Russians had been delaying deliveries for months, apparently under pressure from the United States.

The Iranians want the missiles to defend their nuclear installations against a threatened pre-emptive strike by Israel.

If Russia does sell the S-300s to Turkey, it would mark a significant shift in Ankara's geopolitical orientation that would dismay the Americans.

During the Cold War the United States relied on Turkey, the only Muslim member of NATO, to be a bulwark against Soviet expansionism.

But under the Islamist government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, which came to power in 2003, Turkey's priorities have shifted eastward to Iran, Central Asia and Russia.

U.S. concerns have deepened as Turkey's strategic alliance with Israel, the only other non-Arab power in the region, is crumbling following the killing of nine Turks aboard a Turkish-flagged ship seeking to break Israel's blockade of the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on May 31.

The concern in Washington now, as Turkey moves ever farther away from its old allies in the West, is the possibility that if the Russians do sell S-300s to Turkey they could end up in Iran.

Russia's acquiescence on withholding the S-300 from Iran flies in the face of Moscow's drive to boost its arms industry, a key earner of foreign currency.

Moscow is using arms sales to bolster its efforts to restore the influence in the Middle East it enjoyed during the Cold War. Arms deliveries then were a key component in Soviet alliances with, at various times, Egypt, Syria, Algeria, Libya and Yemen.

The Strategy Page, an Internet site that specializes in defense issues, noted after Moscow announced it wouldn't deliver the S-300 to Iran: "A less discussed reason for not delivering the S-300s is Israeli claims that they have technology that can neutralize the S-300 radar and missile guidance electronics.

"That may or may not be true but the Russians are not eager to see yet another of their weapons defeated by Israeli countermeasures."

Turkey, a member of NATO, has traditionally bought its weapons systems and military equipment from the West, primarily the United States.

So acquiring Russian S-300s would mark a major departure that could open the door to further Russian systems for a military equipped largely with U.S. products.

Mixing weapons systems like that is expensive since it involves a whole new logistics and training program alongside the existing one and the different systems aren't always compatible.

Egypt, which acquired its arms from the Soviets until the early 1970s then switched to U.S. weaponry after making peace with Israel in 1978, is still stuck with much outdated Soviet-era equipment as it absorbs far more sophisticated U.S. systems.

Ultimately, if Turkey does acquire S-300s and seeks to pass them on to neighboring Iran in its drive to gain influence among its Muslim neighbors, it would be crossing a line in terms of its relationship with the United States.

Erdogan may not wish to take such a bold step. But Turkey's increasing assertiveness in its quest to restore its position as a paramount power in the region is fast gathering momentum.
 

SHASH2K2

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Turkey 'freezes' $56 billion of Israeli contracts

June 21, 2010 in Uncategorized with Leave a Comment
Tags: Israel, Turkey

* Turkey is reported to have frozen at least 16 arms deals with Israel worth an estimated $56 billion
* Contracts were suspended after the Israeli government refused to apologize for the May 31 killing of nine Turks
* Just a matter of time before Ankara officially froze all defense deals with Israel
* Turkish President Abdullah Gul has warned that Ankara would not rule out breaking off diplomatic ties if three demands — an international probe, a public Israeli apology and lifting the three-year-old blockade on Gaza — are not met.
* "If the United States cannot be relied upon to pressure Israel on meeting these demands, Ankara will have to find some lever to do so itself," the U.S.-based global security consultancy Stratfor observed in an analysis Tuesday.
* "One such lever may be military and intelligence cooperation, which Israel has historically relied upon.

TEL AVIV, Israel, June 18 — Turkey is reported to have frozen at least 16 arms deals with Israel worth an estimated $56 billion, including missile projects and upgrading combat aircraft and tanks, in a major escalation of its confrontation with the Jewish state.

The Turkish newspaper Today's Zaman reported Friday that the contracts were suspended after the Israeli government refused to apologize for the May 31 killing of nine Turks when Israeli naval commandos stormed the Mavi Marmara, a Turkish-flagged vessel carrying humanitarian aid to the blockaded Gaza Strip.

There was no official confirmation of the report in either Israel or Turkey. But relations between the two former allies have been crumbling since Turkey's Islamist prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, ferociously denounced Israel's invasion of the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip Dec. 27, 2008.

The Israeli daily Haaretz quoted defense ministry sources as saying it was probably just a matter of time before Ankara officially froze all defense deals with Israel.

On Monday, state-run Israel Aerospace Industries, flagship of the Jewish state's defense industry, and Elbit Systems ordered all their engineers, flight instructors and other employees based in Turkey to return home.

Haaretz said the 16 projects being frozen include a $5 billion contract for 1,000 Merkava Mark III main battle tanks designed by Israel Military Industries — the Israeli army is equipping with Merkava Mark IV models — a $50 million upgrade of Turkey's M-60 tanks, an $800 million deal for two Israeli patrol aircraft and an Airborne Warning and Control System jet.

Turkey was also planning a $625.5 million deal for 54 McDonnell Douglas F-4E Phantom strike aircraft to be upgraded to Phantom 2020 standard, and a $75 million program to upgrade 48 of the air force's 87 Northrop F-5/F-5B fighter-bombers as lead-in trainers.

Relations nosedived in October 2009 when Turkey canceled Israel's participation in NATO air exercises. Turkey complained that IAI had delayed delivery of six of 10 Heron long-range unmanned aerial vehicles ordered by the Turkish military in a $185 million 2005 contract.

Last April, Jane's Defense Weekly reported that the Israel defense ministry froze the sale of advanced military platforms to Turkey because of mounting anti-Israeli rhetoric from Erdogan's government.

The ministry's foreign defense assistance and export procurement department also decided to review all Turkish requests for military equipment on a case-by-case basis.

Turkey has been a major importer of Israeli military hardware and defense expertise since the two countries signed a military cooperation pact in 1996.

That landmark alliance between the two major non-Arab military powers in the Middle East dramatically changed the region's strategic landscape.

Israeli pilots trained in Turkey and, according to some reports, Israel set up intelligence-gathering stations on Turkey's borders with Syria and Iran.

In the past, the Turks had preserved military cooperation with Israel, particularly the arms deals and joint exercises that formed the core of their strategic alliance, even when treatment of the Palestinians stirred widespread anger among Turkey's overwhelmingly Muslim population.

But the May 31 killings, and Israel's dogged refusal to acknowledge responsibility for the bloodletting, has incensed the Turkish nation.

The Financial Times quoted Namik Tan, Turkey's ambassador to the United States, as saying Ankara could be forced to sever all ties with Israel, although he stressed: "We don't want this to go to that point."

The unraveling of military links, including intelligence-sharing that Israeli leaders valued extremely highly because of Turkey's proximity to Iran, underlined the seriousness of the current confrontation.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has said he does not trust Israel to carry out an impartial review of the May 31 incident, rather than be subjected to an international investigation.

Turkish President Abdullah Gul has warned that Ankara would not rule out breaking off diplomatic ties if three demands — an international probe, a public Israeli apology and lifting the three-year-old blockade on Gaza — are not met.

"If the United States cannot be relied upon to pressure Israel on meeting these demands, Ankara will have to find some lever to do so itself," the U.S.-based global security consultancy Stratfor observed in an analysis Tuesday.

"One such lever may be military and intelligence cooperation, which Israel has historically relied upon. Turkey has already downgraded cooperation and rumors have surfaced that Israeli intelligence operatives may be expelled from a radar post on Turkish soil near the border with Iran." (UPI)

The Jerusalm Post is claiming that Israel has already capitulated and lifted all sanctions on Gaza–and even the Naval blockade is to be lifted.
 

AkhandBharat

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So wait, Turkey as a NATO state will install Russian SAMs? If turkey breaks away from NATO, it will be a game changer for the west. Suddenly, 2012 prophecy seems to be coming true, lol
 
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nrj

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If this development becomes more solid, I see Turkey shaping into undisputed regional power in defense. Greece will feel the heat of Turkey's armament. Russia is desperately catching market & much hungry for regional influence, so I think Russia will negotiate softly.
 

AkhandBharat

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I doubt how many of Greece's defence deals go through, now that they are broke. But anyway, how can these NATO nations install Russian defensive systems?
 
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I doubt how many of Greece's defence deals go through, now that they are broke. But anyway, how can these NATO nations install Russian defensive systems?
NATO nations are all use suppose to meet NATO standards (set by USA). Interesting that Russia is still selling the S-300's while S-400 has been developed and S-500 in development. This is a clear signal to NATO that they will have to be more careful about the weapons they give to Turkey in the future and the importance they give it in NATO.
 

AkhandBharat

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S-400 won't be exported that soon, I guess considering its still state of the art. This is the first instance I've seen that NATO countries are purchasing such high ticket items from Russia. Russia is no longer viewed with suspicion in Europe?
 
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S-400 won't be exported that soon, I guess considering its still state of the art. This is the first instance I've seen that NATO countries are purchasing such high ticket items from Russia. Russia is no longer viewed with suspicion in Europe?
Russia is also trying to get Mistral class ships from France and UAV's from Israel.
 

SHASH2K2

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Russia is also trying to get Mistral class ships from France and UAV's from Israel.
I don't think that except USA any other country is self sufficient for defence equipments . There will be more and more trades between other powers. moreover France and Russia share same kind of feeling towards Americans.
 
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I don't think that except USA any other country is self sufficient for defence equipments . There will be more and more trades between other powers. moreover France and Russia share same kind of feeling towards Americans.
Most of the world may share these feeling but NATO allies are starting to realize the only one profiting from the alliance is USA, so now they seem to be going in more independent directions and looking after their own interest. Maybe a sign of the times that US influence is no longer what it once was??
 

AkhandBharat

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Most of the world may share these feeling but NATO allies are starting to realize the only one profiting from the alliance is USA, so now they seem to be going in more independent directions and looking after their own interest. Maybe a sign of the times that US influence is no longer what it once was??
That is quite clear from the latest Turkish responses and ultimatums issued to Israel. While US is stuck between a rock and a hard place to keep its economy from crashing, we're seeing the effects of this around the world. Japan's politicians promising to close Okinawa, Turkey ready for a showdown with Israel over Gaza, Heck, even Gilani said today that Pakistan will go ahead with the gas pipeline, despite US 'advising' it not to do so.
 

SHASH2K2

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looks like we are going to see some new equations coming up some times from now. I think Russia will try hard to increase influence in NATO countries.it means more countries to sell weapons and also more trade.
 
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looks like we are going to see some new equations coming up some times from now. I think Russia will try hard to increase influence in NATO countries.it means more countries to sell weapons and also more trade.
not just NATO countries Russia is also selling in US markets like Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern markets that were traditionally US markets.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...ussian-arms-deal/story-e6frfkui-1225767355544

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20100215/157892206.html
 

SHASH2K2

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AkhandBharat

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This is probably one of the reason why Greece is probably turning to Russia for arms, the other being ofcourse Greece is broke.

Wilson's partner in getting the CIA to arm the moujahedeen was Gust Avrakotos, the son of working-class Greek immigrants from the steel workers' town of Aliquippa, Pa. Only in 1960 did the CIA begin to recruit officers for the Directorate of Operations from among what it called "new Americans," meaning such ethnic groups as Chinese, Japanese, Latinos and Greek Americans. Until then, it had followed its British model and taken only Ivy League sons of the Eastern Establishment. Avrakotos joined the CIA in 1961 and came to nurture a hatred of the bluebloods, or "cake eaters," as he called them, who discriminated against him. After "spook school" at Camp Peary, next door to Jamestown, Va., he was posted to Athens, where, as a Greek speaker, he remained until 1978.

During Avrakotos's time in Greece, the CIA was instrumental in destroying Greek freedom and helping to turn the country into probably the single most anti-American democracy on Earth today. Incredibly, Crile describes this as follows: "On April 21, 1967, he [Avrakotos] got one of those breaks that can make a career. A military junta seized power in Athens that day and suspended democratic and constitutional government." Avrakotos became the CIA's chief liaison with the Greek colonels. After the fall of the colonels' brutally fascist regime, the 17 November terrorist organization assassinated the CIA's Athens station chief, Richard Welch, on Dec. 23, 1975, and "Gust came to be vilified in the Greek radical press as the sinister force responsible for most of the country's many ills." He left the country in 1978 but could not get another decent assignment -- he tried for Helsinki -- because the head of the European Division regarded him as simply too uncouth to send to any of its capitals. He sat around Langley for several years without work until he was recruited by John McGaffin, head of the Afghan program. "If it's really true that you have nothing to do," McGaffin said, "why not come upstairs? We're killing Russians."
http://hnn.us/articles/1491.html
 
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Anyways there is enough for everyone to sell and earn. USA is also allowing everyone to be happy. I think Israel is biggest looser in this.
Israel is not a loser Israel still has a huge Indian market.
 

SHASH2K2

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USA , RUSSIA, FRANCE and EUROPE are all fighting for piece of pie. Moreover I donot think that Its worth 56 Billion dollars as in case of Turkey.
 
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USA , RUSSIA, FRANCE and EUROPE are all fighting for piece of pie. Moreover I donot think that Its worth 56 Billion dollars as in case of Turkey.
This seems to be beyond the defense sector, it is probably all deals that Turkey and Israel had are cancelled.
 

SHASH2K2

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This seems to be beyond the defense sector, it is probably all deals that Turkey and Israel had are cancelled.
Till now Israel had monopoly for almost all hi tech procurement for India but now game is becoming intense and there is a lot more competition now.Even USA is in fray and they will definitely block some critical technology transfer by Israel to promote their products .[/I]
 

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