INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Noname34]

View attachment 43213
What would you cal this from SSS defence?

Yes one can make the argument that this is not an indigenous rifle as the parts are imported but this is the gradual step towards indeginisation.

Not only does the Indian govt create all sorts of hurdles for the Indian private sector due to its neo-socialist leanings, they want the Indian private sector to make a completely new rifle from scratch, manufacture all the parts in a country which is nothing more than a hellhole for manufacturers, only for it to be rejected and bypassed for a third rate OFB product because of the MOD-DPSU mafia.
(Even with all these handicaps the simple fact that private enterprises such as LandT were able to make something of themselves is rather eye opening and speaks volumes of the potential that rests within the private sector)

No the govt does not get to have its cake and eat it as well.

This is how it starts in the private industry, profit from operations is eventually invested into expansion in RandD and domestic manufacturing facilities thereby seeing 'indigenous' rifles fully manufactured in India. For this they need to be incentivised and for that they should be given this order of making the rifles for the military.

Lucrative offers such as these will allow further investment from and establishment of other private industries, the resultant competition between these entities will lead to rapid RandD investment as firms compete to keep ahead of the tech curve, this along with a higher officer corp who know procurement is what will see the transformation of the Indian army from its current obsolescence towards looking like a proper modern force.

Hence, incentivising and developing the private sector is much more profitable for the Indian govt than allowing the current DPSU enforced procurement lethargy to continue.

Rather the army uses a rifle with imported parts(temporary until the the money flows in) of better quality and finish from a private entity than forcing it to use a pathetic OFB manufactured paperweight.

 

[vampyrbladez]

The first AK-203 will be delivered in the baseline configuration, with IRRPL not planning to conduct any update of the basic configuration: "The production of the AK-203-based carbine – the AK-204 – is not planned”, the general added.

Until recently the Indian Army was exploring the use of the AK 204 for it's carbine requirements. However it looks like the CAR 816 CQB variant has been down selected for the Carbine role as intended previously. This is apparent by the DRDO lifting it's objections to the import of a foreign carbine over the OFB/ARDE one and IRRPL having been confirmed to be making only AK 203 rifles.

AK 204 ; AK 203

CAR 816 CQB

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL4WDEfUUAEdUdk?format=jpg&name=900x900

The AK-203 as intended for the Indian Armed Forces features some differences compared to the basic Russian assault rifle: the Indian AK-203 has received a folding buttstock (like that integrated with the AK-74M or AK-103 firearms), upper handguard without a Picatinny rail, and a standard plastic 30-round magazine with no clear window. At the same time, the assault rifle has retained its distinctive slotted muzzle brake. A cleaning rod has been mounted under the weapon’s barrel, in the AK-74M/AK-103 fashion.

We are essentially buying a Russian variant of the Bulgarian M5F41 in practice. For comparison :

M5F41

AK 203 Production Variant


I believe that the ergonomic buttstock, 50 round magazine and Picatinny rail on the upper handguard were removed to reduce the price for 100% indigenisation. After all the military equipment you use is the cheapest of the best not the best of the best.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/feb...nic_assault_rifle_of_indian_armed_forces.html

 

[ALBY]

Seen from the angle of cost reduction and practical uses the Ak203 in scaled down version is not that bad. It got rails over receiver to mount red dot or even dual scope. And for flashlight you got rail on lower handguards. I bet army is not going to get laser designatirs for regulars in the next decade. So the need for rail over hand guards could be eliminated unless the rifle is intented for SF or Ghataks. If such a need arise its not that hard to get upper rails in limited numbers.
Concerning the buttstock, the side folding one is not that bad, even Russian spetsnaz had been many times sporting the normal stock as it is sturdier one. The only issue is you cannot adjust the legth of stock like M4.

 

[Shashank Nayak]

View attachment 43226


The Upgraded Insas Rifle...Folding butt stock with cheek rest...full upper picatinny rail..red dot sight..front hand guard with rails and T-POD folding Bipod Grip...Magazine of 30 rounds capacity reduces stoppage to an extent...

Who is the manufacturer of this upgraded INSAS.. OFB ?

 

[Veiled V I P E R 2]

Who is the manufacturer of this upgraded INSAS.. OFB ?

No one manufacturer this. FAB DEFENCE just modified this one with their kit.

 

[Veiled V I P E R 2]

Image from AMCA fb group.

 

[rone]

ak203 ghathak from Russian origin v2 nothing more nothing less

 

[rone]

Until recently the Indian Army was exploring the use of the AK 204 for it's carbine requirements. However it looks like the CAR 816 CQB variant has been down selected for the Carbine role as intended previously. This is apparent by the DRDO lifting it's objections to the import of a foreign carbine over the OFB/ARDE one and IRRPL having been confirmed to be making only AK 203 rifles.

AK 204 ; AK 203

CAR 816 CQB

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL4WDEfUUAEdUdk?format=jpg&name=900x900



We are essentially buying a Russian variant of the Bulgarian M5F41 in practice. For comparison :


View attachment 43233

M5F41

AK 203 Production Variant


I believe that the ergonomic buttstock, 50 round magazine and Picatinny rail on the upper handguard were removed to reduce the price for 100% indigenisation. After all the military equipment you use is the cheapest of the best not the best of the best.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/feb...nic_assault_rifle_of_indian_armed_forces.html

removed new selector which they said revolutionary, free-floating type handguard repèlaced with crapy 103 type one also its still sheet metal build, it looks like Indian army still fights in 80, these gun are meant for another 30 to 40 yr service life literally means meant for future wars and we getting poorly kited 103 which look and effective like 80's weapons, its clearly show how incompetent our governing body in making long term, oriented goals. if we lose tactical advantage over enemy using this carpy shits in future war please don't blame it on Nehru,

 

[vampyrbladez]

removed new selector which they said revolutionary, free-floating type handguard repèlaced with crapy 103 type one also its still sheet metal build, it looks like Indian army still fights in 80, these gun are meant for another 30 to 40 yr service life literally means meant for future wars and we getting poorly kited 103 which look and effective like 80's weapons, its clearly show how incompetent our governing body in making long term, oriented goals.

It was always stamped steel. But has milled lower receiver and thus has fewer rivets.

The thumb selector is the new one.

The future is 6.5 and 6.8 mm taking the place of the 5.56x45 mm round with the 7.62x51 mm being the new 7.62x39 mm. This is because body armor is becoming harder to defeat and even terrorists are getting access to such gear albeit in very limited quantities.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Seen from the angle of cost reduction and practical uses the Ak203 in scaled down version is not that bad. It got rails over receiver to mount red dot or even dual scope. And for flashlight you got rail on lower handguards. I bet army is not going to get laser designatirs for regulars in the next decade. So the need for rail over hand guards could be eliminated unless the rifle is intented for SF or Ghataks. If such a need arise its not that hard to get upper rails in limited numbers.
Concerning the buttstock, the side folding one is not that bad, even Russian spetsnaz had been many times sporting the normal stock as it is sturdier one. The only issue is you cannot adjust the legth of stock like M4.

Conversely M4 because of its buffer tube cannot have a foldable stock.

The lower hand guard does have a tri mount for equipping a laser designator, flashlight and foregrip all at once.

I am more concerned about each soldier being issued atleast some type of optical sight. Quite possibly, frontline units may have holographic sights but rear units might have the default iron sights.

 

[itsme]

Man, IA wants to be stuck in the past. What a horrible idea to not get the proper 203. In the future RR will require an upgrade for their 47s and Indian 203 in the current form is not a good idea for RRs. And more over a retractable butt is an valuable mod for any soldier.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Man, IA wants to be stuck in the past. What a horrible idea to not get the proper 203. In the future RR will require an upgrade for their 47s and Indian 203 in the current form is not a good idea for RRs. And more over a retractable butt is an valuable mod for any soldier.

There is nothing in that configuration that cannot be swapped out in under 5 minutes, possibly less. The kit is for your average infantry trooper not the RR who will get and are getting FAB Defence level of customization.

Rashtriya Rifles unit equipped with the M5F41 with FAB Defence kit circa 2019.

 

[Noname34]

Seen from the angle of cost reduction and practical uses the Ak203 in scaled down version is not that bad. It got rails over receiver to mount red dot or even dual scope. And for flashlight you got rail on lower handguards. I bet army is not going to get laser designatirs for regulars in the next decade. So the need for rail over hand guards could be eliminated unless the rifle is intented for SF or Ghataks. If such a need arise its not that hard to get upper rails in limited numbers.
Concerning the buttstock, the side folding one is not that bad, even Russian spetsnaz had been many times sporting the normal stock as it is sturdier one. The only issue is you cannot adjust the legth of stock like M4.

Understandable, but what about the selector switch? it seems the selector has been reverted back to its earlier version, why?

 

[ALBY]

Understandable, but what about the selector switch? it seems the selector has been reverted back to its earlier version, why?

What selector switch are u saying? In Ak203, the fire selector have been the same just as in Ak 103.
If we are going to get the rifles at cheap prices for the whole army then its not a bad deal at all. No matter how you criticise, Aks especially Russian ones are still considered the gold standard. Collapsible telescopic stocks and rails in upper hand guards are somewhat unnecessary for most of the army as you have a folding stock and rails on dust covwr and lower hand guards. Remember manybof the Sigs of NSG dont even have rails in hand guards and have only side folders.
Just like some one said earlier at the end of the day, its not the bewt rifle your army is buying for you but tge cheapest one out there.

 

[Noname34]

What selector switch are u saying? In Ak203, the fire selector have been the same just as in Ak 103.
If we are going to get the rifles at cheap prices for the whole army then its not a bad deal at all. No matter how you criticise, Aks especially Russian ones are still considered the gold standard. Collapsible telescopic stocks and rails in upper hand guards are somewhat unnecessary for most of the army as you have a folding stock and rails on dust covwr and lower hand guards. Remember manybof the Sigs of NSG dont even have rails in hand guards and have only side folders.
Just like some one said earlier at the end of the day, its not the bewt rifle your army is buying for you but tge cheapest one out there.

Look closely at the selector switches of the AK203 in original and the AK203 that is going to be manufactured.

There is a difference between the selectors of AK 203 and AK103.
As you can see the selector has been given an extra sheet of metal just above the trigger so that safety can be operated without removing the hand completely from the trigger, like is the case with most assault rifles.


Pause and look where his index finger is resting.

But in the case of what is going to be procured

As you can see that extra sheet has been removed so every time the soldier has to completely move his hand from the trigger and change his carry stance to operate the safety, as in the older versions.

That new selector doesn't seem to be adding so much cost to the overall rifle. Hence my question was why was it changed?

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Look closely at the selector switches of the AK203 in original and the AK203 that is going to be manufactured.

View attachment 43246
There is a difference between the selectors of AK 203 and AK103.
As you can see the selector has been given an extra sheet of metal just above the trigger so that safety can be operated without removing the hand completely from the trigger, like is the case with most assault rifles.


Pause and look where his index finger is resting.

But in the case of what is going to be procured
View attachment 43247

As you can see that extra sheet has been removed so every time the soldier has to completely move his hand from the trigger and change his carry stance to operate the safety, as in the older versions.

That new selector doesn't seem to be adding so much cost to the overall rifle. Hence my question was why was it changed?

Changing the buttstock from M4 style to legacy AK style is debatable, but atleast they should not have removed the upper picatinny rails on the handguard atleast. Also, the extra sheet on the fire selector is basically a piece of metal, cost reduction would be miniscule if any.

 

[Unknowncommando 2]

Meanwhile local police nibbas are happy with Excalibur MK
INSAS LMG besides

 

[Veiled V I P E R 2]

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[ALBY]

Look closely at the selector switches of the AK203 in original and the AK203 that is going to be manufactured.

View attachment 43246
There is a difference between the selectors of AK 203 and AK103.
As you can see the selector has been given an extra sheet of metal just above the trigger so that safety can be operated without removing the hand completely from the trigger, like is the case with most assault rifles.


Pause and look where his index finger is resting.

But in the case of what is going to be procured
View attachment 43247

As you can see that extra sheet has been removed so every time the soldier has to completely move his hand from the trigger and change his carry stance to operate the safety, as in the older versions.

That new selector doesn't seem to be adding so much cost to the overall rifle. Hence my question was why was it changed?

Sorry bro, didnt noticed that one.. India mein sab chalta hei especially when those decision makers are bunch of assholes who no lobger have to serve in the field

 

[nongaddarliberal]

336 SNIPER OFB

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Enough with OFB. If we require new firearms, put out a tender to Indian private companies, and select the best submission. We simply refuse to face the reality of OFB's obsolescence.