INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[devhensh]

Punjabi language was being spoken most likely Malwa/Doaba region.

You are right ! ....and i know, it's Punjabi ...You see, i translated an entire sentence from the vedio in my first post, just below the vedio.......

People much more expereinced than me have commented on the mode of fire and weapon and nobody is wrong.....But here are my two cents.....

The soldiers were laying down suppressive fire most probably from a makeshift / temporary position.....Suppressive fire maybe considered as wastage by some, but it has many uses(for example, what if they were giving cover fire for the Ghataks to infiltrate across LOC, just an example).......It maybe said that cover fire is given with heavier weapons......then again they use what is available !

Yes, Light belt Fed and Quick Dettach barrel LMG would have been ideal....but what if they don't have access to that..we all know they are in short supply....So they improvise, with what they have in plenty, which is INSAS LMG.......

All magzines look like the longer 30 round magzines....but somebody correctly pointed out that, the shooters buddies are filling the magzines as fast as he can shoot.....that is why he is not getting full 30 rounds ...also maybe this is reason for jamming because of rounds are not properly seated in magzine...

We all agree on one thing...which is high capacity drum or folded belt pouch magzines upgrade to INSAS LMG would be golden....Something like this, which uses a reliable 96 round drum magzine

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I will add few points after @binayak95 ..

1. Its purely suppresive fire, It can be done also for distracting enemy, spary and pray are mostly burst fires ..

2. LMG is lighter weapon compare to MMG or GPMG, And can be move quite faster in tight spaces like the one you saw there ..

4. One has to change its position after each burst, enemy snipers are always there, In this case this is purely meant to distract enemy ..

I think none of the mags were fully loaded. You can make out that its an average of 20 rounds being fired at a time. A couple of magazines seemed faulty as well. One wouldn't lock into place, and the other's spring was probably loose, couldn't push rounds into the chamber no matter how many times he cocked the gun.

This is why I stress in drum mags or belt-fed mags.

Seems like suppressive fire to me. 4-5 seconds of suppressive fire with 4-5 secs to reload the magazine is dumb. Get a belt fed LMG, keep the mofos pinned for hours.

Very interesting video - but disappointing as well;

1. What kind of fire is the jawan laying down? Is it purely suppressive fire? To my untrained eye, it seems like "spray and pray" fire to me - no offence meant. The loophole position also doesn't seem to make it easy to choose targets. There was no spotter either.

2. Whatever the intent, the jawan could have used a belt fed or box fed LMG in the situation. He wasted a lot if time trying to reload and re-acquire the target. Then there was at least 1 more man required to supply him with loaded mags.

3. The LMG keeps jamming too often - what is the reason?

4. I counted the rounds being fired at a time .... only 10-15 rounds were being despatched at a time. It could be because the LMG kept jamming, or was it intentional to keep the barrel cool to keep the MG going?

The design philosophy behind the INSAS LMG is - AFAIK - lends itself well for mobile warfare where a section of men can benefit from LMG support while moving. For this bunker war a MAG MMG or even bipod MAG would have been better.

@Kunal Biswas @Raj Malhotra

 

[tharun]

Not everyone on post can have it. A satellite post certainly can't because of logistics constraints.

What..! Logistic constraints? carrying a empty drum magazine?

 

[Pandeyji]

Been away for long .....but this is an "INSAS LMG" and sodiers are most probably Dogras.....could make out every word spoken...Like "Khokhe Badi Jande Meri Mooh Wich" ...empty shells keep on entering my mouth.......

Means our jawans literally chew brass:bounce:

Very interesting video - but disappointing as well;

1. What kind of fire is the jawan laying down? Is it purely suppressive fire? To my untrained eye, it seems like "spray and pray" fire to me - no offence meant. The loophole position also doesn't seem to make it easy to choose targets. There was no spotter either.

2. Whatever the intent, the jawan could have used a belt fed or box fed LMG in the situation. He wasted a lot if time trying to reload and re-acquire the target. Then there was at least 1 more man required to supply him with loaded mags.

3. The LMG keeps jamming too often - what is the reason?

4. I counted the rounds being fired at a time .... only 10-15 rounds were being despatched at a time. It could be because the LMG kept jamming, or was it intentional to keep the barrel cool to keep the MG going?

The design philosophy behind the INSAS LMG is - AFAIK - lends itself well for mobile warfare where a section of men can benefit from LMG support while moving. For this bunker war a MAG MMG or even bipod MAG would have been better.

@Kunal Biswas @Raj Malhotra

1. Good Morning fire (as my NCC instructor called it) probably. Basically to scare enemy & put some pressure on him (taki dabaav bana rahe)
2.No need to acquire the target in Good Morning fire . Just
3. Excessive use & one or two times i feel that the jawan in the heat of the moment didn't go with the proper drill. Adrenaline sometimes does this.
4. Soldiers never fill the mags to full capacity as it is harmful to the spring. Therefore 16-18 rounds in a 22 round mag

 

[Abhijeet Sinha]

Any news on the OFB 7.62x51 AR? Will it constitute of the 25% OFB share under the new program, or will army go INSAS MK1C.

Is there any chances this rifle will compete against the International rifles in the fast track program?

 

[soikot banerjee]

Any news on the OFB 7.62x51 AR? Will it constitute of the 25% OFB share under the new program, or will army go INSAS MK1C.

Is there any chances this rifle will compete against the International rifles in the fast track program?

There is no so called 25% or 75 % stuff, the nit wit article that day was again an anonymous MoD official.
There is only one route that is 2.5 Lac 7.62*51 through Global Tender and not FOREIGN VENDOR as preached by many fanboys and rest will be either INSAS 1c or Ghatak 7.62*39.
Whatever that comes out of the mouth of Army's COAS is the ultimate truth, as plans don't change in every couple of months:
"My thinking is: Since a state-of-the-art assault rifle will cost about Rs 200,000 each in the global market, let us issue these only to frontline infantry soldiers who confront the enemy armed only with their rifles,” Rawat told Business Standard. “Let us provide a cheaper indigenous option to other soldiers, for whom the rifle is not a primary weapon,” he added.

As for 7.62*51 of OFB, here are Updates by INDRA FB page:

BREAKING NEWS
•Trials of the indigenously developed assault rifle has made progress after the initial bottlenecks.
The sixth round was completed in November by the the Project Management Team.
•The army has sought for 50 rifles , out which it will select some rifles randomly for trials to check the consistency.
•There was a problem with the consistency of the rifle , while the army wanted 99% consistency , the rifle only has 98%.
• The initial requirements for the army is 1,85,000 (emergency purposes) and the other requirement will be met by a joint venture between private company and OFB

 

[Abhijeet Sinha]

There is no so called 25% or 75 % stuff, the nit wit article that day was again an anonymous MoD official.
There is only one route that is 2.5 Lac 7.62*51 through Global Tender and not FOREIGN VENDOR as preached by many fanboys and rest will be either INSAS 1c or Ghatak 7.62*39.
Whatever that comes out of the mouth of Army's COAS is the ultimate truth, as plans don't change in every couple of months:
"My thinking is: Since a state-of-the-art assault rifle will cost about Rs 200,000 each in the global market, let us issue these only to frontline infantry soldiers who confront the enemy armed only with their rifles,” Rawat told Business Standard. “Let us provide a cheaper indigenous option to other soldiers, for whom the rifle is not a primary weapon,” he added.

As for 7.62*51 of OFB, here are Updates by INDRA FB page:

BREAKING NEWS
•Trials of the indigenously developed assault rifle has made progress after the initial bottlenecks.
The sixth round was completed in November by the the Project Management Team.
•The army has sought for 50 rifles , out which it will select some rifles randomly for trials to check the consistency.
•There was a problem with the consistency of the rifle , while the army wanted 99% consistency , the rifle only has 98%.
• The initial requirements for the army is 1,85,000 (emergency purposes) and the other requirement will be met by a joint venture between private company and OFB

Hmmmmmmmm...........this makes more sense....thanks.
What is meant by 99% consistency? Is it just number of stoppages for a certain number of rounds fired........ or is it combination of different factors.
Also can you please provide hyperlink to the INDRA FB page.

 

[Abhijeet Sinha]

Aaah........just found it.

https://www.facebook.com/TeamINDRA/

 

[abingdonboy]

There is no so called 25% or 75 % stuff, the nit wit article that day was again an anonymous MoD official.
There is only one route that is 2.5 Lac 7.62*51 through Global Tender and not FOREIGN VENDOR as preached by many fanboys and rest will be either INSAS 1c or Ghatak 7.62*39.
Whatever that comes out of the mouth of Army's COAS is the ultimate truth, as plans don't change in every couple of months:
"My thinking is: Since a state-of-the-art assault rifle will cost about Rs 200,000 each in the global market, let us issue these only to frontline infantry soldiers who confront the enemy armed only with their rifles,” Rawat told Business Standard. “Let us provide a cheaper indigenous option to other soldiers, for whom the rifle is not a primary weapon,” he added.

As for 7.62*51 of OFB, here are Updates by INDRA FB page:

BREAKING NEWS
•Trials of the indigenously developed assault rifle has made progress after the initial bottlenecks.
The sixth round was completed in November by the the Project Management Team.
•The army has sought for 50 rifles , out which it will select some rifles randomly for trials to check the consistency.
•There was a problem with the consistency of the rifle , while the army wanted 99% consistency , the rifle only has 98%.
• The initial requirements for the army is 1,85,000 (emergency purposes) and the other requirement will be met by a joint venture between private company and OFB

So no room at all for OFB 7.62*51 rifle in IA?

 

[darshan978]

Where is drdo AAR now ?...............

 

[WolfPack86]

Where is drdo AAR now ?...............

Army rejected it. But i do not know for sure.

 

[ezsasa]

Where is drdo AAR now ?...............

My guess is it will surface again after current procurement cycles are completed. That would mean only after 2019.with a new rifle it’s not just the rifle components which are new but also the new manufacturing machinery associated with it, all of them have to be in place for full scale manufacturing to start.

AAR is like ghar jamai, it can always be brought out of cold storage any time.

 

[Vishal Chandorkar]

Who said so?
5.5 Lac are from OFB already.
As for rest 2.5 lac 7.62*51 it has to tie up with a private company and compete for the tender. Most probably it is them who will win. Most FANBOYS are actually complaining about recoil, in reality it is way more less than most of them, I have posted comparison in same thread, go and have a look few pages back.

I hope this one wins. And as u said, its recoil is actually less than the recoil of the international rifles in the videos u posted.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its not rejected nor ideal, Its going through continual development and trails ..

Army rejected it. But i do not know for sure.

 

[Trololo]

Its not rejected nor ideal, Its going through continual development and trails ..

Ideally I would want to see the army going for this rifle rather than some more INSAS or foreign maal. Army products are low hanging fruits that can be indigenized quickly enough. Sad that DRDO is still working on developing this rifle for such a long time now.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

ARDE 40mm UBGL from Recent CT ops ..

===

BEL Sight on AK from Recent CT ops ..

==================

There is a dedicated thread on it : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/drdo-multical-rifle-unveiled.58105/

AAR was never meant to replace INSAS 1B1, AAR is part of INSAS itself ..

Ideally I would want to see the army going for this rifle rather than some more INSAS or foreign maal. Army products are low hanging fruits that can be indigenized quickly enough. Sad that DRDO is still working on developing this rifle for such a long time now.

 

[Pandeyji]

I have a gut feeling that no foreign rifle would be accepted. The recent news reports about 250k & 550k are like all those news reports about imminent introduction of Single Engine Fighter & deficiencies of Tejas; just hot air. The forces would accept INSAS 1C & OFB 7.62*51.

Better explanation; when LM & SAAB said that they were near acceptance the SEF died an inglorious death. Similar thing happened to Spike. So I think the recent articles about forward troops getting foreign rifles & rear echelon getting indigenous are just last-ditch desperate attempts at staying relevant.

Note:- This is entirely a conjecture & I couldnt back this with any source (atleast now). But studying the pattern of our recent defence procurements indicates that there is a solid chance I am right.

 

[Vishal Chandorkar]

I have a gut feeling that no foreign rifle would be accepted. The recent news reports about 250k & 550k are like all those news reports about imminent introduction of Single Engine Fighter & deficiencies of Tejas; just hot air. The forces would accept INSAS 1C & OFB 7.62*51.

Better explanation; when LM & SAAB said that they were near acceptance the SEF died an inglorious death. Similar thing happened to Spike. So I think the recent articles about forward troops getting foreign rifles & rear echelon getting indigenous are just last-ditch desperate attempts at staying relevant.

Note:- This is entirely a conjecture & I couldnt back this with any source (atleast now). But studying the pattern of our recent defence procurements indicates that there is a solid chance I am right.

Hope both rifles are developed to world class standards and are accepted into our armed forces n prove their mettle

 

[Pandeyji]

Hope both rifles are developed to world class standards and are accepted into our armed forces n prove their mettle

1C is being used by paramilitaries & police forces across the country so yeah it is a proven platform

 

[vkp171083]

Can anyone post latest insas 1c pics?