INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[Knowitall]

3rd carrier for now is a pipe dream.

Navy is already being forced to cut LPD numbers.

It would be better if we concentrate on conventional submarines for the next few years.

If I remember correctly L&T had come up with a design

 

[FalconSlayers]

China is making 4 Aircraft carriers operational by 2030, not only they are more in number than us, but also larger than our existing and planned ones.

Their first aircraft carrier Type 001 is smaller than ours at 43,000 tonnes but their first indigenously built Aircraft carrier Type 002 is a 70,000 tonne STOBAR carrier, their 3rd aircraft carrier under construction is a 85,000 CATOBAR carrier and their 4th aircraft carrier under construction is a 1,00,000 Tonne Nuclear EMALS carrier.

I think we should go for the Russian Shtorm aircraft carrier that they offered us.
but again some problems in ToT will arise.

Our INS Vikramaditya is a 45,400 Tonne STOBAR carrier, IAC-1 INS Vikrant is a 40,000 Tonne aircraft carrier whereas the Supposed IAC-2 INS Vishal is going to be a 65,000 Tonne EMALS Carrier.

How are we going to counter china when her first Indigenous carrier is bigger than our 2nd indigenous carrier? China will project power like hell.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

How are we going to counter china when her first Indigenous carrier is bigger than our 2nd indigenous carrier? China will project power like hell.

 

[johnq]

Instead of spending money on more and more carriers, India can spend that money to turn all its islands into unsinkable carriers by arming them with a lot of missiles, aircraft, etc.

 

[no smoking]

How are we going to counter china when her first Indigenous carrier is bigger than our 2nd indigenous carrier? China will project power like hell.

Without a safe harbor outside the IAF covering, Chinese aircraft can't make any meaningful challenge in India Ocean (Pakistan is too close). Chinese need one from South East Asian such as Malaysia or Indonesia, etc. But that won't be possible in 20-30 years.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Without a safe harbor outside the IAF covering, Chinese aircraft can't make any meaningful challenge in India Ocean (Pakistan is too close). Chinese need one from South East Asian such as Malaysia or Indonesia, etc. But that won't be possible in 20-30 years.

They would also need aircrafts to fill them as well. And aircraft carriers are more expensive and precious ships to lose to. AC sinkers like submarines and destroyers need more investments than ACs.

 

[Tridev123]

They would also need aircrafts to fill them as well. And aircraft carriers are more expensive and precious ships to lose to. AC sinkers like submarines and destroyers need more investments than ACs.

Considering the present financial situation a third 65,000 tonne aircraft carrier costing billions of dollars is a luxury we cannot afford. The first priority should be
1.Nuclear submarines, both SSBN and SSN in sufficient numbers to complete our
minimum second strike capability. Armed with nuke missiles of sufficient range.
The confrontation on the border with China could take any shape in the future.
Only a robust survivable under sea nuclear weapons capability will make the
Chinese think many times before escalating tensions with India. SSBN"s to carry
and fire the SLBM's and SSN's to protect the SSBN's.
2.Conventional AIP equipped submarines to be a deterrent to the Chinese surface
and subsurface fleet. Preferably having indigenous anti ship missiles along with
Brahmos ASCM.

Nobody is stating that Aircraft Carriers are not necessary but they will be possible only after our urgent requirements for submarines are met. The US requires large mega sized aircraft carriers because they are needed thousands of kilometres away from their shores. The distance between the US and China is quite large and instead of depending on land bases in China's neighbourhood whose access is not always guaranteed, a CBG provides the US with an independent force projection capability. India is still not in a position to dream of such big power projection capabilities.

The Su30mki armed with the Brahmos missiles can cover the entire Indian Ocean region. For now they will be enough of a deterrent till we can afford big aircraft carriers.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Instead of spending money on more and more carriers, India can spend that money to turn all its islands into unsinkable carriers by arming them with a lot of missiles, aircraft, etc.

Can’t we make artificial islands in Indian ocean? Which international law gets triggered if India does so?

 

[FalconSlayers]

Considering the present financial situation a third 65,000 tonne aircraft carrier costing billions of dollars is a luxury we cannot afford. The first priority should be
1.Nuclear submarines, both SSBN and SSN in sufficient numbers to complete our
minimum second strike capability. Armed with nuke missiles of sufficient range.
The confrontation on the border with China could take any shape in the future.
Only a robust survivable under sea nuclear weapons capability will make the
Chinese think many times before escalating tensions with India. SSBN"s to carry
and fire the SLBM's and SSN's to protect the SSBN's.
2.Conventional AIP equipped submarines to be a deterrent to the Chinese surface
and subsurface fleet. Preferably having indigenous anti ship missiles along with
Brahmos ASCM.

Nobody is stating that Aircraft Carriers are not necessary but they will be possible only after our urgent requirements for submarines are met. The US requires large mega sized aircraft carriers because they are needed thousands of kilometres away from their shores. The distance between the US and China is quite large and instead of depending on land bases in China's neighbourhood whose access is not always guaranteed, a CBG provides the US with an independent force projection capability. India is still not in a position to dream of such big power projection capabilities.

The Su30mki armed with the Brahmos missiles can cover the entire Indian Ocean region. For now they will be enough of a deterrent till we can afford big aircraft carriers.

I don’t know why are we not buying the Tu22M3 bomber, many say It iS oLd CoLd wAr eRa sTrAtEgY. I mean use it as a Maritime bomber.

 

[Tridev123]

I don’t know why are we not buying the Tu22M3 bomber, many say It iS oLd CoLd wAr eRa sTrAtEgY. I mean use it as a Maritime bomber.

It is a good idea for expanding our sea denial capability. Very long range and can be armed with long range Ascm's like Brahmos.It can stay out of range of ship based Sam's and discharge its missiles. It is also designed to carry nuclear weapons.

Probably the potential adverse US reaction is what's dissuading us. Also is Russia willing to lease or sell it. Maintenance could be a problem so leasing it seems to be a better idea.

Anyway the Su30mki with its range of 3000 km plus can also fulfil the long range naval strike role.

 

[Akula]

Can’t we make artificial islands in Indian ocean? Which international law gets triggered if India does so?

But where will you make those islands? In middle of the ocean? You can't just make islands in between the ocean. A Island formation should be there or you can make them nearby shore like in UAE.

 

[Tridev123]

I don’t know why are we not buying the Tu22M3 bomber, many say It iS oLd CoLd wAr eRa sTrAtEgY. I mean use it as a Maritime bomber.

If we see a pressing need for an additional aircraft carrier then probably the best option would be to construct one more Vikrant + or Vikrant mk2 carrier. Maybe the original Vikrant can be scaled up a bit to about 50,000 tonnes. Also the aircraft lifts can be modified to fit the Rafale M and the Super HornetF18 along with the Mig29k.

Since we have already gained experience in building Vikrant mk1, a successor should be built faster and better. The private sector should also be involved in a big way, someone like L & T shipbuilders. Modular construction will shorten the time taken and L&T can build several modules of the Vikrant mk2.

 

[FalconSlayers]

It is a good idea for expanding our sea denial capability. Very long range and can be armed with long range Ascm's like Brahmos.It can stay out of range of ship based Sam's and discharge its missiles. It is also designed to carry nuclear weapons.

Probably the potential adverse US reaction is what's dissuading us. Also is Russia willing to lease or sell it. Maintenance could be a problem so leasing it seems to be a better idea.

Anyway the Su30mki with its range of 3000 km plus can also fulfil the long range naval strike role.

I personally feel it is already serving.
As in early 2000s 4 Aircraft were ordered but were never delivered. Hence possibly these 4 are already serving secretly in Andaman & Nicobar Islands. As IAF has secretly operated MiG-25 FoxBat aircrafts before.

Yes conventional bomber concept for carpet bombing on cities was dead long ago. I feel anyone who says India doesn’t need a bomber is a retard citing it is an easy target so TU22M3 is a bad option. But Tu22M3 is a maritime bomber so use it as a maritime bomber.

Our Armed Forces are more of Defensive. Our sea denial capabilities need a boost.
Plus our Navy also need AEW&CS aircraft also for Indian Ocean. China maybe using their Hawkeye knock off from carriers but we don’t have to operate AEW&CS from carriers as we have A&N Islands and Wheeler and Lakshadweep Islands and many Coastal Naval Airbases.

Man our Defence Budget is in Stupid Integers.
IMHO Our defence budget should be at least $100 Billion For Modernisation only.
Anything greater than $100 Billion would enable our Armed Forces for Fleet and Number expansion along with Modernisation.

 

[Swiftfarts]

I personally feel it is already serving.
As in early 2000s 4 Aircraft were ordered but were never delivered. Hence possibly these 4 are already serving secretly in Andaman & Nicobar Islands. As IAF has secretly operated MiG-25 FoxBat aircrafts before.

Yes conventional bomber concept for carpet bombing on cities was dead long ago. I feel anyone who says India doesn’t need a bomber is a retard citing it is an easy target so TU22M3 is a bad option. But Tu22M3 is a maritime bomber so use it as a maritime bomber.

Our Armed Forces are more of Defensive. Our sea denial capabilities need a boost.
Plus our Navy also need AEW&CS aircraft also for Indian Ocean. China maybe using their Hawkeye knock off from carriers but we don’t have to operate AEW&CS from carriers as we have A&N Islands and Wheeler and Lakshadweep Islands and many Coastal Naval Airbases.

Man our Defence Budget is in Stupid Integers.
IMHO Our defence budget should be at least $100 Billion For Modernisation only.
Anything greater than $100 Billion would enable our Armed Forces for Fleet and Number expansion along with Modernisation.

Why not 1 trillion USD defence budget ? paise ki to khadan lagi hai.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

I personally feel it is already serving.
As in early 2000s 4 Aircraft were ordered but were never delivered. Hence possibly these 4 are already serving secretly in Andaman & Nicobar Islands. As IAF has secretly operated MiG-25 FoxBat aircrafts before.

Yes conventional bomber concept for carpet bombing on cities was dead long ago. I feel anyone who says India doesn’t need a bomber is a retard citing it is an easy target so TU22M3 is a bad option. But Tu22M3 is a maritime bomber so use it as a maritime bomber.

Our Armed Forces are more of Defensive. Our sea denial capabilities need a boost.
Plus our Navy also need AEW&CS aircraft also for Indian Ocean. China maybe using their Hawkeye knock off from carriers but we don’t have to operate AEW&CS from carriers as we have A&N Islands and Wheeler and Lakshadweep Islands and many Coastal Naval Airbases.

Man our Defence Budget is in Stupid Integers.
IMHO Our defence budget should be at least $100 Billion For Modernisation only.
Anything greater than $100 Billion would enable our Armed Forces for Fleet and Number expansion along with Modernisation.

Bhaiya , this is defense budget not a stock exchange jisse pure desh ki pyas bhujjaygi

 

[FalconSlayers]

Why not 1 trillion USD defence budget ? paise ki to khadan lagi hai.

This -23.9% decrease in GDP has made our GDP down to 2.59 Trillion dollars.
I mean what the fuck?

Chinese purposely did this to weaken other economies drastically.
How are we going to gain back this GDP? So 5 Trillion dollar economy is going to be a dream only.

 

[shade]

This -23.9% decrease in GDP has made our GDP down to 2.59 Trillion dollars.
I mean what the fuck?

Chinese purposely did this to weaken other economies drastically.
How are we going to gain back this GDP? So 5 Trillion dollar economy is going to be a dream only.

Hoga by 2030, but the deadline was 2024-25.

 

[Trololo]

Instead of Vishal the IAC-2 should be named as INS Zaid Hamid.

 

[FalconSlayers]

Hoga by 2030, but the deadline was 2024-25.

Yaar
Chinese economy is growing.
I feel Lockdown was useless as it only destroyed our economy.
a reduction of 23.9% in a quarter is more dangerous than a 23.9% reduction in a year.