INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[FalconSlayers]

Instead of Vishal the IAC-2 should be named as INS Zaid Hamid.

Yes because INS Vishal and Zaidu Hamid both are BS.

 

[Trololo]

Zaidu isn't barking that much these days it seems.

 

[Killbot]

Hoga by 2030, but the deadline was 2024-25.

Happen as early as 2026-27. 2030-31 we'll be at least a 7 trillion dollar economy. Third largest.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

This -23.9% decrease in GDP has made our GDP down to 2.59 Trillion dollars.
I mean what the fuck?

Chinese purposely did this to weaken other economies drastically.
How are we going to gain back this GDP? So 5 Trillion dollar economy is going to be a dream only.

Its a 10% reduction. Not 23.9%. Marwaega kya yaar!!

 

[shade]

Why not 1 trillion USD defence budget ? paise ki to khadan lagi hai.

Yes we are a very poor country, we must promote ahinsa, peaceful gandhiwadi behavior by slashing defense budget to 0.3% of GDP or $10 billion whichever is lesser.
As it is Vasudhaiv Kuntum Bumkam chal raha hai, might as well start spewing precepts of "Bapu" instead of having “useless” and violent organizations like Armed forces, CAPFs and Intelligence.

Yaar
Chinese economy is growing.
I feel Lockdown was useless as it only destroyed our economy.
a reduction of 23.9% in a quarter is more dangerous than a 23.9% reduction in a year.

When theirs was at 7-8% growth rate earlier they used to add a trillion USD to their economy per year,
It will be back to that again, now that they are seen as a "bright spot" in post-Corona world to invest in and as a large market.

Unless Defence budget is increased for development of MIC( not lining the pockets of Russians and their dalals here ) we will have to continue to wear the bangles of ahimsa, koi nhi ghussa, naryal paani with Xi etc. since the gulf between us and the 15 foot chinamans will only increase as the years pass, imported Army, imported Air Force is only good for making Russians, Americans, Israelis and French and their local dalals rich, not fight off the Chinks.

 

[Gandaberunda]

China is making 4 Aircraft carriers operational by 2030, not only they are more in number than us, but also larger than our existing and planned ones.

Their first aircraft carrier Type 001 is smaller than ours at 43,000 tonnes but their first indigenously built Aircraft carrier Type 002 is a 70,000 tonne STOBAR carrier, their 3rd aircraft carrier under construction is a 85,000 CATOBAR carrier and their 4th aircraft carrier under construction is a 1,00,000 Tonne Nuclear EMALS carrier.

I think we should go for the Russian Shtorm aircraft carrier that they offered us.
but again some problems in ToT will arise.

Our INS Vikramaditya is a 45,400 Tonne STOBAR carrier, IAC-1 INS Vikrant is a 40,000 Tonne aircraft carrier whereas the Supposed IAC-2 INS Vishal is going to be a 65,000 Tonne EMALS Carrier.

How are we going to counter china when her first Indigenous carrier is bigger than our 2nd indigenous carrier? China will project power like hell.

How are we going to counter china?? This exact question was asked by a journalist to ex navy chief wrt to Chinese Building aircraft carriers who retired recently and he gave beautiful explanation...
His answer was simple IN has an edge in operating aircraft carrier over 4 decades now. Certainly IN has two decade of experience over PLAN in carrier borne operations. Having an aircraft carrier is not an advantage operating the carrier effectively during hostile situations is a challenge which china have never experienced with their carrier. We are 20 years ahead in this field wrt to china navy hence as of now it's not worrying but after 2035-40 things may change. IN needs 3 AC carriers by 2030 he said.

This itself gives an idea how difficult to operate carriers also Chinese are still novice in operating em.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

How are we going to counter china?? This exact question was asked by a journalist to ex navy chief wrt to Chinese Building aircraft carriers who retired recently and he gave beautiful explanation...
His answer was simple IN has an edge in operating aircraft carrier over 4 decades now. Certainly IN has two decade of experience over PLAN in carrier borne operations. Having an aircraft carrier is not an advantage operating the carrier effectively during hostile situations is a challenge which china have never experienced with their carrier. We are 20 years ahead in this field wrt to china navy hence as of now it's not worrying but after 2035-40 things may change. IN needs 3 AC carriers by 2030 he said.

This itself gives an idea how difficult to operate carriers also Chinese are still novice in operating em.

Probably the best option in this scenario is to go for the CATOBAR version of the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier.
The Brits have built 2 STOVL carriers for $4 billion,I think that CATOBAR version would cost $5 billion at best.
Otheriwse, the option of building a IAC-1 copy is always there.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Probably the best option in this scenario is to go for the CATOBAR version of the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier.
The Brits have built 2 STOVL carriers for $4 billion,I think that CATOBAR version would cost $5 billion at best.
Otheriwse, the option of building a IAC-1 copy is always there.

Navy doesn't want another Vikrant or VikramAditya... Navy want glorious super carrier 65k ton atleast if not nuclear carrier to be effective beyond 2050-2060

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Navy doesn't want another Vikrant or VikramAditya... Navy want glorious super carrier 65k ton atleast if not nuclear carrier to be effective beyond 2050-2060

That is why I am betting on the CATOBAR Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carrier.

 

[silentlurker]

"After the projected costs of the CATOBAR system rose to around twice the original estimate, the government announced that it would revert to the original"

That would put a CATOBAR design at somewhere more than £3 billion. If the navy isn't even going to buy a 65000 ton Vishal I don't see why it would buy an even heavier QE-class.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

"After the projected costs of the CATOBAR system rose to around twice the original estimate, the government announced that it would revert to the original"

That would put a CATOBAR design at somewhere more than £3 billion. If the navy isn't even going to buy a 65000 ton Vishal I don't see why it would buy an even heavier QE-class.

An indigenously designed INS Vishal is anyway going to cost in the ballpark of $5-7 billion

 

[no smoking]

AC sinkers like submarines and destroyers need more investments than ACs.

Submarines don't produce much economic benefit as ACs. It works in the war not peaceful time.
Using destroyers to sink AC was just Soviet's wildest dream during cold war, which proved to be low efficiency. Basically, you can call these destroyers as "suicide squad".

 

[Ashok84]

Spain may sell there Aircraft carrier.What is possibility for India??

 

[Illusive]

Considering the present financial situation a third 65,000 tonne aircraft carrier costing billions of dollars is a luxury we cannot afford. The first priority should be
1.Nuclear submarines, both SSBN and SSN in sufficient numbers to complete our
minimum second strike capability. Armed with nuke missiles of sufficient range.
The confrontation on the border with China could take any shape in the future.
Only a robust survivable under sea nuclear weapons capability will make the
Chinese think many times before escalating tensions with India. SSBN"s to carry
and fire the SLBM's and SSN's to protect the SSBN's.
2.Conventional AIP equipped submarines to be a deterrent to the Chinese surface
and subsurface fleet. Preferably having indigenous anti ship missiles along with
Brahmos ASCM.

Nobody is stating that Aircraft Carriers are not necessary but they will be possible only after our urgent requirements for submarines are met. The US requires large mega sized aircraft carriers because they are needed thousands of kilometres away from their shores. The distance between the US and China is quite large and instead of depending on land bases in China's neighbourhood whose access is not always guaranteed, a CBG provides the US with an independent force projection capability. India is still not in a position to dream of such big power projection capabilities.

The Su30mki armed with the Brahmos missiles can cover the entire Indian Ocean region. For now they will be enough of a deterrent till we can afford big aircraft carriers.

Better get those minesweeper ships, our navy isn't balanced at all at this moment. Aircraft carriers should be the last thing in our minds right now. Built as many destroyers and frigates as possible in larger numbers.

 

[Tridev123]

Better get those minesweeper ships, our navy isn't balanced at all at this moment. rAircraft carriers should be the last thing in our minds righte now. Built as many destroyers and frigates as possible in larger numbers.

Yes, modern minesweepers are a critical deficiency in our navy. God alone knows what happened to the proposed collaboration with a South Korean ship builder for 12 modern minesweepers.

Once the deal collapsed the whole process has gone into a coma situation. Nobody wants to revive the deal or find alternatives.

One of the easiest ways to paralyse a prospective arms purchase is to level corruption allegations even if it is baseless. Everything then grinds to a halt.

Most defense purchases suffer from this paralysis. Probably bureaucrats think that delaying is a very good course of action. I reckon more than 50% of all proposed arms acquisitions suffer from cost and time over runs. Everybody loses including the nation because of defective arms acquisition policies.

 

[silentlurker]

Submarines don't produce much economic benefit as ACs.

How do either subs or carriers provide conomic benefit?

Using destroyers to sink AC was just Soviet's wildest dream during cold war, which proved to be low efficiency.

Last time I checked the Soviets never fired AShMs at US carrier groups, so how was this ever Proved?

 

[Alfalfa]

Spain may sell there Aircraft carrier.What is possibility for India??

Uhm, its 40 years old.. laid down in 79 launched in 88.. weighs some 15700 tons (Lima Oscar Lima) and can only operate Harriers ... unless theres some other carrier apart from the Principe De Asturias

 

[no smoking]

How do either subs or carriers provide conomic benefit?

ACs can provide air defense and air strike capability for the surface fleet or land force. It is the core of power projection which is the only thing can protect your economic interest in the local area when you don't have local military base.

Last time I checked the Soviets never fired AShMs at US carrier groups, so how was this ever Proved?

In their numerous military drills. Their main role was: getting as much close to US ACs as they can to launch their own anti-ship missiles and cover those cruisers behind them launching more missiles.

 

[Trololo]

Instead of Vishal the IAC-2 should be named as INS Zaid Hamid.

Upon special demand renamed to INS Khwabi Pulau.

 

[johnq]

Unless India was operating CATOBAR carriers with Rafales, sinking more money into carriers is not worth it. The Mig-29k is heavy on maintenance and limited on payload operating from STOBAR carriers, and the Tejas Navy is also not being accepted in its current configuration and will take time.
India is very lucky to have islands in strategic areas. Instead of sinking more money into carriers, I would suggest building more airfields on Andaman, Nicobar and other islands, and turning them into fortresses (unsinkable carriers) with SAMS, long range missiles and long range fighter bombers like the Rafale that can take off with full payload from airfields.