INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[fire starter]

Kickbacks.. ??

In case you didn't know it has been almost a decade since navy has been floating this concept.

Is it wrong of them not at all he has said it multiple times but you do realise that carriers go into refits.

The doctrine is 2 in deployment and 1 in refit.

The reason navy is not going for a Vikrant class is because it wants to move over the ski class carrier's and wants to move over to emals as they have a much higher sortie rate and more payload capacity.

It's obvious at one point they will move from the ski design that's why they won't to spend any more money into it.

Of course the Airforce and navy don't want a army CDS.

He talks about utilisation of money while the army fucks up all indigenous projects.

He is yet to talk about the biggest sham that is the 464 t-90s deal.

The army has been successfully delaying lch luh while they keep running after Apache.

The do the same thing with artillery they have been delaying ATAGS.

Atleast with navy one can be confident of having a proper plan and idea behind it.

It's army that needs it budget trimmed.

it's true but navy shouldn't pursue 3rd carrier right now they should focus more on submarines and destroyers.

 

[Blue Water Navy]

it's true but navy shouldn't pursue 3rd carrier right now they should focus more on submarines and destroyers.

They are already doing it. Building more arihant class and Vishakhapatnam class SSN & destroyers. I am hearing that SSBN's are also coming which will have around 13k ton displacement.

And even if the Navy orders a second Vikrant class AC. It will take around 2-3 years to decide, get approval and then order.

 

[rohit b3]

2010-2020
We got a whole Carrier Battle Group with :
INS Vikramaditya
Shivalik Class Frigates
Talwar Class Frigates
Kolkata Class Destroyers
Kamorta Class Corvettes
INS Chakra/2 Kalvari class
And an SSBN INS Arihant too

2021-2030 we would expect another
INS Vikrant
Project 17A
Talwar Follow ons
Vishakapatnam Class
INS Chakra-2/4 Kalvari Class
Remaining 3 Arihant Class

So offcourse 2031-2040 we would expect something similar, especially with our booming economy(unless this Govt manages to further slash the economy growth)

But yeah S5 Class, 6 SSN, and Project 75I would be a priority. However on the other hand, i believe we wont need additional Frigates for a while now. New Generation Destroyers(NGD) are on the cards however.

 

[Knowitall]

Lagta H CDS sabh ko line m laye ga :biggrin2::bounce:

I really don't like this attitude I was fearing it a lot and now it's finally happening.

I honestly wanted a CDS from the Navy looking at how the Navy has continued to excel in indigenisation.

Out of all 3 services they have performed the best and yet this happens to them.

He says it would take 10 years to build an aircraft carrier if signed now absolutely true then he goes ahead and says who can predict what will be the situation by then.

So by this chutiya logic I can also say that why buy Apaches and t-90s now as they will be coming over the years as who knows what will be the situation by then.

The only reason he became the CDS was because he supports this government and his action in Kashmir has been good. That's it.

I mean there was recently this news of army wanting to jointly produce three vehicles with Russia BMP BTR and one more vehicle.

Im yet to see indigenous items making a entry in the army.

Artillery-NO
Tanks-NO
IFV-NO
Attack helicopters-NO
Transportation-50:50 (only thing is Dhruv)
Rifles-NO (atleast we could have mass produced SIG rifles or brought an AR type but Russian maal zindabad also corruption)
Atgm for helicopters and hand held ones:-NO
Handheld air defence weapons:-NO (ilga-s another big scan we didn't even buy verba from Russia.)

Now look at the Navy:-
Destroyer's:-yes
Nuclear submarines:-yes
Conventional submarines:-no
AIP systems:-yes
Aircraft carriers:-yes
ASW aircraft:-50:50 (dronier aircraft)
Patrol boats:-yes
Offshore patrol boats:-yes
Speedboats:-yes

Major exporter too and now I want you too look at their budgets.

I don't know why I am so angry today he will just shit on them while in his own term as the army head he couldn't give two fucks about home grown product's.

It just angers me that the one service which has actually done a heck lot are being told oh your plans are in vain you don't need etc bullshit.

Our navy remains the first responders during any crises abroad.

Their anti piracy role and joint ops with other countries is extremely good.

Yet people will shit on them.

No one will talk about the mess and total fuckup in army no one.

It's a joke honestly take this defexpo they couldn't even give some fucking time to Arjun tank.

Look at the crap that comes out of OFB and look at what the naval design bureau comes out with.

All of you just wait and watch where all this extra carrier money goes just see.

 

[Atcjurvin]

I really don't like this attitude I was fearing it a lot and now it's finally happening.

I honestly wanted a CDS from the Navy looking at how the Navy has continued to excel in indigenisation.

Out of all 3 services they have performed the best and yet this happens to them.

He says it would take 10 years to build an aircraft carrier if signed now absolutely true then he goes ahead and says who can predict what will be the situation by then.

So by this chutiya logic I can also say that why buy Apaches and t-90s now as they will be coming over the years as who knows what will be the situation by then.

The only reason he became the CDS was because he supports this government and his action in Kashmir has been good. That's it.

I mean there was recently this news of army wanting to jointly produce three vehicles with Russia BMP BTR and one more vehicle.

Im yet to see indigenous items making a entry in the army.

Artillery-NO
Tanks-NO
IFV-NO
Attack helicopters-NO
Transportation-50:50 (only thing is Dhruv)
Rifles-NO (atleast we could have mass produced SIG rifles or brought an AR type but Russian maal zindabad also corruption)
Atgm for helicopters and hand held ones:-NO
Handheld air defence weapons:-NO (ilga-s another big scan we didn't even buy verba from Russia.)

Now look at the Navy:-
Destroyer's:-yes
Nuclear submarines:-yes
Conventional submarines:-no
AIP systems:-yes
Aircraft carriers:-yes
ASW aircraft:-50:50 (dronier aircraft)
Patrol boats:-yes
Offshore patrol boats:-yes
Speedboats:-yes

Major exporter too and now I want you too look at their budgets.

I don't know why I am so angry today he will just shit on them while in his own term as the army head he couldn't give two fucks about home grown product's.

It just angers me that the one service which has actually done a heck lot are being told oh your plans are in vain you don't need etc bullshit.

Our navy remains the first responders during any crises abroad.

Their anti piracy role and joint ops with other countries is extremely good.

Yet people will shit on them.

No one will talk about the mess and total fuckup in army no one.

It's a joke honestly take this defexpo they couldn't even give some fucking time to Arjun tank.

Look at the crap that comes out of OFB and look at what the naval design bureau comes out with.

All of you just wait and watch where all this extra carrier money goes just see.

Chill bro he doesn't have too much power to interfere navy can still get whatever they want he cannot force them to go for imports just like army is doing.

 

[Gessler]

I agree with CDS point of view. The priority should be the SSN program (or even additional diesel subs), not another carrier.

Much better to forget IAC-2 till around 2028-30. And then build 2 ships simultaneously using modular methods (much like how UK built up the QEC & PoW eventhough no UK yard built a carrier in last 30 years before that). So that by the time Vikramaditya is laid up for retirement (approx 2040), we'll have 2 potential supercarriers ready for induction, one to replace Vikky, another to bring strength to three (Vikrant will serve till 2060 at least).

I don't think many people on the forum realize the sheer importance of submarines (read, SSNs) in the upcoming game in IOR. And just how outweighed a carrier is in terms of importance compared to an SSN.

Toward the end of this decade, Pakistan will be in possession of multiple SSBs (diesel-electric ballistic missile subs with AIP). And frequency of Chinese SSN patrols into IOR has been on constant rise since last decade. The threat posed by these two developments is immeasurable not only to India's SSBNs (from Chinese SSNs) but to India itself (from Pak having a semi-survivable deterrent that can reach any part of India).

In order to reliably play the undersea cat-and-mouse game with China (something US & Russia been doing to each other since beginning of Cold War), and to reliably assure dominance of the subsurface domain against Pakistan, SSNs are the only way. This is not a job for diesel subs, with or without AIP.

Acquiring a sizable fleet (minimum 6, maximum 18) of SSNs should be among Top 3 national priorities. We should be diverting every single paisa we can spare toward that program. In terms of importance it is probably second only to the SSBNs. But in the absence of a National Security Strategy (defence white paper) policy directive, I think the armed forces' and the wider Ministry of Defence's ability to judge correctly what takes priority over what seems to be lagging at best.

The appointment of a CDS and his mandate are a first step toward fixing these wayward policies, and I'm glad he is speaking up. The guys at Navy HQ (and Air Force HQ) better take note.

 

[Atcjurvin]

I agree with CDS point of view. The priority should be the SSN program (or even additional diesel subs), not another carrier.

Much better to forget IAC-2 till around 2028-30. And then build 2 ships simultaneously using modular methods (much like how UK built up the QEC & PoW eventhough no UK yard built a carrier in last 30 years before that). So that by the time Vikramaditya is laid up for retirement (approx 2040), we'll have 2 potential supercarriers ready for induction, one to replace Vikky, another to bring strength to three (Vikrant will serve till 2060 at least).

I don't think many people on the forum realize the sheer importance of submarines (read, SSNs) in the upcoming game in IOR. And just how outweighed a carrier is in terms of importance compared to an SSN.

Toward the end of this decade, Pakistan will be in possession of multiple SSBs (diesel-electric ballistic missile subs with AIP). And frequency of Chinese SSN patrols into IOR has been on constant rise since last decade. The threat posed by these two developments is immeasurable not only to India's SSBNs (from Chinese SSNs) but to India itself (from Pak having a semi-survivable deterrent that can reach any part of India).

In order to reliably play the undersea cat-and-mouse game with China (something US & Russia been doing to each other since beginning of Cold War), and to reliably assure dominance of the subsurface domain against Pakistan, SSNs are the only way. This is not a job for diesel subs, with or without AIP.

Acquiring a sizable fleet (minimum 6, maximum 18) of SSNs should be among Top 3 national priorities. We should be diverting every single paisa we can spare toward that program. In terms of importance it is probably second only to the SSBNs. But in the absence of a National Security Strategy (defence white paper) policy directive, I think the armed forces' and the wider Ministry of Defence's ability to judge correctly what takes priority over what seems to be lagging at best.

The appointment of a CDS and his mandate are a first step toward fixing these wayward policies, and I'm glad he is speaking up. The guys at Navy HQ (and Air Force HQ) better take note.

Finally some one spoke with facts and logic otherwise these fanboys made bipin rawat navy chief.

 

[Knowitall]

I agree with CDS point of view. The priority should be the SSN program (or even additional diesel subs), not another carrier.

Much better to forget IAC-2 till around 2028-30. And then build 2 ships simultaneously using modular methods (much like how UK built up the QEC & PoW eventhough no UK yard built a carrier in last 30 years before that). So that by the time Vikramaditya is laid up for retirement (approx 2040), we'll have 2 potential supercarriers ready for induction, one to replace Vikky, another to bring strength to three (Vikrant will serve till 2060 at least).

I don't think many people on the forum realize the sheer importance of submarines (read, SSNs) in the upcoming game in IOR. And just how outweighed a carrier is in terms of importance compared to an SSN.

Toward the end of this decade, Pakistan will be in possession of multiple SSBs (diesel-electric ballistic missile subs with AIP). And frequency of Chinese SSN patrols into IOR has been on constant rise since last decade. The threat posed by these two developments is immeasurable not only to India's SSBNs (from Chinese SSNs) but to India itself (from Pak having a semi-survivable deterrent that can reach any part of India).

In order to reliably play the undersea cat-and-mouse game with China (something US & Russia been doing to each other since beginning of Cold War), and to reliably assure dominance of the subsurface domain against Pakistan, SSNs are the only way. This is not a job for diesel subs, with or without AIP.

Acquiring a sizable fleet (minimum 6, maximum 18) of SSNs should be among Top 3 national priorities. We should be diverting every single paisa we can spare toward that program. In terms of importance it is probably second only to the SSBNs. But in the absence of a National Security Strategy (defence white paper) policy directive, I think the armed forces' and the wider Ministry of Defence's ability to judge correctly what takes priority over what seems to be lagging at best.

The appointment of a CDS and his mandate are a first step toward fixing these wayward policies, and I'm glad he is speaking up. The guys at Navy HQ (and Air Force HQ) better take note.

There is a huge mistake everyone is making here.

The Navy submarine plan is already going on in full swing.

Project-75i is already going on

The SSN program has also been sanctioned and is in design phase.

The SSBN program is a already in full swing and we can expect all of them to be in sea by 2025.

S-5 program won't start before 2030.

The S-5 submarines and our SSN will start getting inducted around the same timeframe a few years apart.

The thing is between all these acquisitions and the time frame is quite big and this original submarine plan has already funds allocated and going on in a brisk pace.

The problem I find here is when he said I will cancel the carrier for more submarines which I know will simply not happen the current plan will go on it cannot be sped up very much due the technological know-how required.

If there is a plan which would lead to the number of submarines increasing than the current levels then I will take my words back.

But as of now and I'm pretty sure seeing the procurement process that nothing of this sort will happen.

 

[Atcjurvin]

There is a huge mistake everyone is making here.

The Navy submarine plan is already going on in full swing.

Project-75i is already going on

The SSN program has also been sanctioned and is in design phase.

The SSBN program is a already in full swing and we can expect all of them to be in sea by 2025.

S-5 program won't start before 2030.

The S-5 submarines and our SSN will start getting inducted around the same timeframe a few years apart.

The thing is between all these acquisitions and the time frame is quite big and this original submarine plan has already funds allocated and going on in a brisk pace.

The problem I find here is when he said I will cancel the carrier for more submarines which I know will simply not happen the current plan will go on it cannot be sped up very much due the technological know-how required.

If there is a plan which would lead to the number of submarines increasing than the current levels then I will take my words back.

But as of now and I'm pretty sure seeing the procurement process that nothing of this sort will happen.

Look at the budget of navy and aircraft carrier u will get to know everything.

 

[Knowitall]

Look at the budget of navy and aircraft carrier u will get to know everything.

The Navy was clearly asking for extra money.

With this logic MMRCA is a big no no as it will take an upwards 20 billion from the airforce budget.

Yet it will most probably happen sooner or later.

 

[Atcjurvin]

The Navy was clearly asking for extra money.

With this logic MMRCA is a big no no as it will take an upwards 20 billion from the airforce budget.

Yet it will most probably happen sooner or later.

Wow what a logic God bless you bro..........

 

[Defcon 1]

I really don't like this attitude I was fearing it a lot and now it's finally happening.

I honestly wanted a CDS from the Navy looking at how the Navy has continued to excel in indigenisation.

Out of all 3 services they have performed the best and yet this happens to them.

He says it would take 10 years to build an aircraft carrier if signed now absolutely true then he goes ahead and says who can predict what will be the situation by then.

So by this chutiya logic I can also say that why buy Apaches and t-90s now as they will be coming over the years as who knows what will be the situation by then.

The only reason he became the CDS was because he supports this government and his action in Kashmir has been good. That's it.

I mean there was recently this news of army wanting to jointly produce three vehicles with Russia BMP BTR and one more vehicle.

Im yet to see indigenous items making a entry in the army.

Artillery-NO
Tanks-NO
IFV-NO
Attack helicopters-NO
Transportation-50:50 (only thing is Dhruv)
Rifles-NO (atleast we could have mass produced SIG rifles or brought an AR type but Russian maal zindabad also corruption)
Atgm for helicopters and hand held ones:-NO
Handheld air defence weapons:-NO (ilga-s another big scan we didn't even buy verba from Russia.)

Now look at the Navy:-
Destroyer's:-yes
Nuclear submarines:-yes
Conventional submarines:-no
AIP systems:-yes
Aircraft carriers:-yes
ASW aircraft:-50:50 (dronier aircraft)
Patrol boats:-yes
Offshore patrol boats:-yes
Speedboats:-yes

Major exporter too and now I want you too look at their budgets.

I don't know why I am so angry today he will just shit on them while in his own term as the army head he couldn't give two fucks about home grown product's.

It just angers me that the one service which has actually done a heck lot are being told oh your plans are in vain you don't need etc bullshit.

Our navy remains the first responders during any crises abroad.

Their anti piracy role and joint ops with other countries is extremely good.

Yet people will shit on them.

No one will talk about the mess and total fuckup in army no one.

It's a joke honestly take this defexpo they couldn't even give some fucking time to Arjun tank.

Look at the crap that comes out of OFB and look at what the naval design bureau comes out with.

All of you just wait and watch where all this extra carrier money goes just see.

These kind of posts are very far from reality. Navy is nowhere ahead of IA and IAF in indigenization. Only float component of ships is indigenous, move and fight components are imported or licensed produced mostly. That is true for almost all systems of navy except strategic ones such as Arihant. But somehow IA and IAF always take the blame. IA and IAF at least have some success stories with indigenization such as Dhruv and INSAS. Navy on the other strung along DRDO for decades on the NLCA project and rejected it finally.

The basic problem is that kolkata class, with its Ukrainian engine, Israeli sensors and air defence, and russian anti ship missile is termed indigenous, where su30mki is considered a foreign product.

 

[Knowitall]

These kind of posts are very far from reality. Navy is nowhere ahead of IA and IAF in indigenization. Only float component of ships is indigenous, move and fight components are imported or licensed produced mostly. That is true for almost all systems of navy except strategic ones such as Arihant. But somehow IA and IAF always take the blame. IA and IAF at least have some success stories with indigenization such as Dhruv and INSAS. Navy on the other strung along DRDO for decades on the NLCA project and rejected it finally.

The basic problem is that kolkata class, with its Ukrainian engine, Israeli sensors and air defence, and russian anti ship missile is termed indigenous, where su30mki is considered a foreign product.

The Navy was very clear it never wanted a single engine jet never and they were ready for a twin engined 4th gen jet when they were told naval AMCA never possible.

How can you even call Dhruv indigenous as of 2010 it was 90 percent foreign I'm not sure of how indigenous it is now but it will be around 40-50 percent still.

And about INSAS I think the army itself has made it clear how good the rifle was so I don't need to dwell further here.

The fact that we have decided to go after a Russian rifle tells us a lot.

I would really like to know if someone has the percentage of indigenous equipment service wise but I'm pretty sure the Navy would end up on top.

 

[Gessler]

There is a huge mistake everyone is making here.

The Navy submarine plan is already going on in full swing.

Project-75i is already going on

P-75I has been "going on" since first RFI was issued back in 2008.

12 years later, we are no more closer to having the subs in hand. The project is dead in the water.

And if you think shortlisting of 2 bidders is progress...take a look at the LHD project. Another procurement effort where again 2 bidders were shortlisted years ago but no progress in overall deal, which was also initiated approx a decade ago.

Same goes for helicopter deals, MCMV procurement, etc etc. Basically, the only procurements making progress are those where the primary contractors are DPSUs, which allow for a lot of leeway with regard to payments (look at HAL's payments backlog with IAF).

In other words, sure we can initiate 20 different programs, and to an outside observer it does seem like all 20 are "progressing" or "going on" simultaneously. But the reality is, each year, only about 1-2 of them actually manage to go through, the rest remain in suspension for decade plus with no actual progress.

This is the result of a total lack of financial prioritization. In simple terms, the mother (MoD) is trying to feed 3 of its children (Armed Forces) from the same pot, but neither the mother nor the kids have any idea how big each kid is or how much his need is. Each kid only knows his own need so they all try and grab the same piece of naan, result being none of them are actually well-fed end of the day due to scarcity of bread, and due to scarcity of planning, will not be enough in future either.

And this is true not just for IN but for other two as well.

We had to realize we did not have the money for 126 Rafales and settled for 36.

Army cancelled/put on back burner so many important programs like BMS, FICV, MSC being smaller than initially planned, serious consideration to right-sizing (read, downsizing) of personnel, etc etc.

One cannot deny there is financial crunch - and one has to realize that MoD or Forces will NEVER admit publicly that they have money problems. But we must also realize that this isn't the result of slowdown of economy or anything like that...its primarily to do with:

> Great increase in needs, but each year only meager increases in defence spending.
> More and more money going to salaries & pensions than CAPEX
> Lack of optimization (prioritization).

The SSBN program is a already in full swing and we can expect all of them to be in sea by 2025.

S-5 program won't start before 2030.

The S-5 submarines and our SSN will start getting inducted around the same timeframe a few years apart.

The money for the SSBNs does not come from Defence Budget. It's a project of national importance and the funds for it are sanctioned directly by PMO.

SSN is different though - the money for this comes from Navy's share of the defence budget.

The thing is between all these acquisitions and the time frame is quite big and this original submarine plan has already funds allocated and going on in a brisk pace.

What money is allocated? It doesn't work that way.

And the small amounts provided to carry out feasibility studies, detailed design plans etc. doesn't even count. That stuff is barely a few million dollars and is peanuts compared to the cost of actually producing and/or buying the boats - which runs into tens of billions.

 

[Knowitall]

P-75I has been "going on" since first RFI was issued back in 2008.

12 years later, we are no more closer to having the subs in hand. The project is dead in the water.

And if you think shortlisting of 2 bidders is progress...take a look at the LHD project. Another procurement effort where again 2 bidders were shortlisted years ago but no progress in overall deal, which was also initiated approx a decade ago.

Same goes for helicopter deals, MCMV procurement, etc etc. Basically, the only procurements making progress are those where the primary contractors are DPSUs, which allow for a lot of leeway with regard to payments (look at HAL's payments backlog with IAF).

In other words, sure we can initiate 20 different programs, and to an outside observer it does seem like all 20 are "progressing" or "going on" simultaneously. But the reality is, each year, only about 1-2 of them actually manage to go through, the rest remain in suspension for decade plus with no actual progress.

This is the result of a total lack of financial prioritization. In simple terms, the mother (MoD) is trying to feed 3 of its children (Armed Forces) from the same pot, but neither the mother nor the kids have any idea how big each kid is or how much his need is. Each kid only knows his own need so they all try and grab the same piece of naan, result being none of them are actually well-fed end of the day due to scarcity of bread, and due to scarcity of planning, will not be enough in future either.

And this is true not just for IN but for other two as well.

We had to realize we did not have the money for 126 Rafales and settled for 36.

Army cancelled/put on back burner so many important programs like BMS, FICV, MSC being smaller than initially planned, serious consideration to right-sizing (read, downsizing) of personnel, etc etc.

One cannot deny there is financial crunch - and one has to realize that MoD or Forces will NEVER admit publicly that they have money problems. But we must also realize that this isn't the result of slowdown of economy or anything like that...its primarily to do with:

> Great increase in needs, but each year only meager increases in defence spending.
> More and more money going to salaries & pensions than CAPEX
> Lack of optimization (prioritization).



The money for the SSBNs does not come from Defence Budget. It's a project of national importance and the funds for it are sanctioned directly by PMO.



SSN is different though - the money for this comes from Navy's share of the defence budget.



What money is allocated? It doesn't work that way.

And the small amounts provided to carry out feasibility studies, detailed design plans etc. doesn't even count. That stuff is barely a few million dollars and is peanuts compared to the cost of actually producing and/or buying the boats - which runs into tens of billions.

I was talking about the SSBN program money has been allocated for that and the SSN program

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...r-powered-submarines/articleshow/69921014.cms

Now the money for the construction might have or not been alloted there is no proper source.

Even the Navy chief stated that work has begun on the SSN program and he cannot disclose anything more.

Yes I do know that money for Arihant dosentd come from naval budget didn't say anything opposite.

Rest of the post I totally agree with you.

 

[Gessler]

I was talking about the SSBN program money has been allocated for that and the SSN program

https://m.economictimes.com/news/de...r-powered-submarines/articleshow/69921014.cms

Now the money for the construction might have or not been alloted there is no proper source.

Even the Navy chief stated that work has begun on the SSN program and he cannot disclose anything more.

Yes I do know that money for Arihant dosentd come from naval budget didn't say anything opposite.

Rest of the post I totally agree with you.

The money allocated is a initial seed amount of a mere 100 crores ($14 million), as per the article.

A single pump-jet propulsor of a Virginia-class SSN alone probably costs more than that to buy.

Like I said, largely irrelevant feasibility study-type allocations (not irrelevant in terms of importance, they're very important...but irrelevant in terms of actual size of allocation).

 

[Jameson Emoni]

Is it not possible to have multi purpose submarines that will play the role of both SSBN and SSN?

 

[Defcon 1]

The Navy was very clear it never wanted a single engine jet never and they were ready for a twin engined 4th gen jet when they were told naval AMCA never possible.

No navy never made it clear. NLCA program has running since 1990s and for around 30 years they were ok with single engine fighter, then suddenly last year they changed their mind

How can you even call Dhruv indigenous as of 2010 it was 90 percent foreign I'm not sure of how indigenous it is now but it will be around 40-50 percent still.

Lol nice joke. Please prove that dhruv was 90% foreign in 2010 or take back your claim

And about INSAS I think the army itself has made it clear how good the rifle was so I don't need to dwell further here.

Exactly. INSAS wasn't a good rifle, still army ordered it by the thousands to support indigenization. Only when its soldiers began to die because of INSAS, army started looking for a new rifle. So you are actually proving my point.

 

[Defcon 1]

Is it not possible to have multi purpose submarines that will play the role of both SSBN and SSN?

No, you don't fight battles using subs carrying nuclear missiles

 

[samsaptaka]

I think Saurav Jha also commented that the only way to force army to indigenize is to cut the budget. I hope they further squeeze it and force them to stop importing phoren maal and go with stuff from Tonbo, SSS etc.. but no OFB !!