INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[Adioz]

"You know the catapult is quite important," said Trump. "So I said what is this? Sir, this is our digital catapult system. He said well, we’re going to this because we wanted to keep up with modern [technology]. I said, 'You don’t use steam anymore for catapult?' 'No sir.' I said, 'Ah, how is it working?' 'Sir, not good. Not good. Doesn’t have the power. You know the steam is just brutal. You see that sucker going and steam’s going all over the place, there’s planes thrown in the air.'"

"It sounded bad to me. Digital. They have digital. What is digital? And it’s very complicated. You have to be Albert Einstein to figure it out. And I said — and now they want to buy more aircraft carriers. I said what system are you going to be — 'Sir, we’re staying with digital.' I said no you’re not. You going to goddamned steam, the digital costs hundreds of millions of dollars more money and it’s no good."

Trump is such a joker. Osama bin Laden would know more about EMALS than he does.

 

[Filtercoffee]

Trump is such a joker. Osama bin Laden would know more about EMALS than he does.

I think its last calibrations with platforms and power supply.

 

[Anikastha]

Did you see how MiG-29K are treated? Do me a favour, Take a trip to Goa by air, and when you land there you will find MiG-29K in the open, there are no blast pens or anything for them, all day they are in the sun. and this is true for most Russian planes in India. Where as for Rafale, one of the important part of the deal is infrastructure including blast pens and air conditioned hangars. If IAF or Indian navy gives such treatment to Russian planes, you might see a better availability etc. By the way when I was in Goa recently there were about a dozen of those MiG-29K at the airport, just parked in the sun.

Same conditions for mig29 in Ins Dega ...Visakhapatnam.
Ins dega and Visakhapatnam airport uses common runway. One can have good view of dega.
Atleast 6 migs will be parked on tarmac unless there is rain.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk

 

[Flame Thrower]

I would say we should get another one of Vishal's class, as it will take less time and shipyard has required experience to make it. At the same time go for next generation carrier. That will make 4 carriers.

If Chinese is making them at such fast pace, we too should make assambly line for AC. Let our domestic shipyard gain from this.

We should be making one carrier per year.

@sayareakd sir, you know about this.

When we ask for a new A/C, we are not just asking for one A/C but we are asking for a battlegroup which is hell lot more costlier than just A/C. We haven't decided fighter A/C for Vikrant how do we do it for 2nd Vishal A/C. Let our Navy first figure out on Subs and helis. In the meantime lets work on LPD and Visakhapatnam class destroyers and Shivalik class frigares and Kamota class Corvette. Build these in enough numbers to support another A/C. Let us also work on Ship based BMD

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

"You know the catapult is quite important," said Trump. "So I said what is this? Sir, this is our digital catapult system. He said well, we’re going to this because we wanted to keep up with modern [technology]. I said, 'You don’t use steam anymore for catapult?' 'No sir.' I said, 'Ah, how is it working?' 'Sir, not good. Not good. Doesn’t have the power. You know the steam is just brutal. You see that sucker going and steam’s going all over the place, there’s planes thrown in the air.'"

"It sounded bad to me. Digital. They have digital. What is digital? And it’s very complicated. You have to be Albert Einstein to figure it out. And I said — and now they want to buy more aircraft carriers. I said what system are you going to be — 'Sir, we’re staying with digital.' I said no you’re not. You going to goddamned steam, the digital costs hundreds of millions of dollars more money and it’s no good."

Trump has some serious vocabulary issues. Looks like he has early signs of dementia or alzheimer.

 

[scatterStorm]

@sayareakd sir, you know about this.

When we ask for a new A/C, we are not just asking for one A/C but we are asking for a battlegroup which is hell lot more costlier than just A/C. We haven't decided fighter A/C for Vikrant how do we do it for 2nd Vishal A/C. Let our Navy first figure out on Subs and helis. In the meantime lets work on LPD and Visakhapatnam class destroyers and Shivalik class frigares and Kamota class Corvette. Build these in enough numbers to support another A/C. Let us also work on Ship based BMD

Agreed, CBG consist of Destroyers, Frigates, Corvettes, SSNs or SSBNs, Support Vessels, I think we should build more of these, including the LPD, IN has interest for 4 so it would be great to see even 1 to take shape.

 

[sayareakd]

@sayareakd sir, you know about this.

When we ask for a new A/C, we are not just asking for one A/C but we are asking for a battlegroup which is hell lot more costlier than just A/C. We haven't decided fighter A/C for Vikrant how do we do it for 2nd Vishal A/C. Let our Navy first figure out on Subs and helis. In the meantime lets work on LPD and Visakhapatnam class destroyers and Shivalik class frigares and Kamota class Corvette. Build these in enough numbers to support another A/C. Let us also work on Ship based BMD

Brother when AC goes for maintenance, like at the time of Kargil war, entire BG minus AC was not in repair. Therefore you need extra pair of legs, if you want to dominate Indian Ocean region.

You can use the real estate of AC to do more things, like parking land base BMD on empty AC etc...... its increases your options.

We are big, so start thinking big. R&D will get into local compaines and it will benifit economy, inturn create jobs etc etc.

 

[Flame Thrower]

Brother when AC goes for maintenance, like at the time of Kargil war, entire BG minus AC was not in repair. Therefore you need extra pair of legs, if you want to dominate Indian Ocean region.

You can use the real estate of AC to do more things, like parking land base BMD on empty AC etc...... its increases your options.

We are big, so start thinking big. R&D will get into local compaines and it will benifit economy, inturn create jobs etc etc.

You have a point brother, and A/C will be nearly 4 months per year on maintenance. A/C without CBG might be possible. But given the situation of IN, I doubt they might go for a new A/C

 

[bhramos]

Trump ready to cancel EMALS

now what about the Future of INS Vishal?

 

[scatterStorm]

Brother when AC goes for maintenance, like at the time of Kargil war, entire BG minus AC was not in repair. Therefore you need extra pair of legs, if you want to dominate Indian Ocean region.

You can use the real estate of AC to do more things, like parking land base BMD on empty AC etc...... its increases your options.

We are big, so start thinking big. R&D will get into local compaines and it will benifit economy, inturn create jobs etc etc.

Parking a BMD on a CV, that's an interesting idea indeed, lot's of space, and best CV is movable! They can also be shielded from external radar jamming and detection, simply take them down one story below the deck!

 

[scatterStorm]

Trump ready to cancel EMALS

now what about the Future of INS Vishal?

Here's the thing in US history, President's come and go, but one things is certain in American military machine, ideas and projects never go! I think general dynamics is capable enough for venturing out in open and there's always lobbying, which is legal in there system.

Actually this can be beneficial to us, as if Trump's brain go haywire, we will have some points to negotiate as we reached out to them first.

Regarding IAC Vishal, well it's not over for Vishal, I am sure conventional steam catapults can also do the job, just innovate on them further. But I am sure, it's one of the trumps "clap talk", he may forget it too like he forgot to to give proper instruction to the 10th fleet to go to N.Korea! Funny guy he is.

 

[Filtercoffee]

Here's the thing in US history, President's come and go, but one things is certain in American military machine, ideas and projects never go! I think general dynamics is capable enough for venturing out in open and there's always lobbying, which is legal in there system.

Actually this can be beneficial to us, as if Trump's brain go haywire, we will have some points to negotiate as we reached out to them first.

Regarding IAC Vishal, well it's not over for Vishal, I am sure conventional steam catapults can also do the job, just innovate on them further. But I am sure, it's one of the trumps "clap talk", he may forget it too like he forgot to to give proper instruction to the 10th fleet to go to N.Korea! Funny guy he is.

U.S. President Donald J. Trump will only remain in office till 2024, if he gets the 2nd term. We need to worry about the designed carrier which I think will go into production after 2025. So all the neccessary details have been completed from both companies, we will wait for the series production to start soon. I hate it when the civilian population goes into depression like the Axis are. ( )

 

[TPFscopes]

What your thoughts about this bird for VISHAL?

USMC F-35B fire its gun pod for the first time while flying

The pod, which is strapped to the belly of the Navy and Marine Corps jets, can fire at 55 rounds per second and carries 220 rounds of 25 mm caliber.

 

[Adioz]

What your thoughts about this bird for VISHAL?

USMC F-35B fire its gun pod for the first time while flying

The pod, which is strapped to the belly of the Navy and Marine Corps jets, can fire at 55 rounds per second and carries 220 rounds of 25 mm caliber.

VTOL aircraft, so no. F-35C? Maybe. Again, unless we figure out what all US and India are willing to share in terms of avionics, and where all India plans to put domestic avionics (like IFF), we cannot figure out if the Indian Navy will even think of buying the aircraft. Not sure how well this will work with the air-wings of INS Vikrant and INS Vikramaditya. Not sure if it fits the role. Not sure if its the right bang for buck. With the amount of negativity around this project, I hope that the Indian Navy will stay the hell away from this crap. Maybe we'll see a naval AMCA post-2035 (round about the time when IN would be fielding 2 Vishaal-class carriers. Till then, any other 4th gen aircraft can fly from the large carriers of IN.

 

[Thrishul]

VTOL aircraft, so no. F-35C? Maybe. Again, unless we figure out what all US and India are willing to share in terms of avionics, and where all India plans to put domestic avionics (like IFF), we cannot figure out if the Indian Navy will even think of buying the aircraft. Not sure how well this will work with the air-wings of INS Vikrant and INS Vikramaditya. Not sure if it fits the role. Not sure if its the right bang for buck. With the amount of negativity around this project, I hope that the Indian Navy will stay the hell away from this crap. Maybe we'll see a naval AMCA post-2035 (round about the time when IN would be fielding 2 Vishaal-class carriers. Till then, any other 4th gen aircraft can fly from the large carriers of IN.

I agree, I hope the Navy forces ADA to build the AMCA-N 1st. We do not want the Eurofighter maritime variant fiasco. Where they were supposed to build it but it was too complicated converting a air force version into a naval version. For the Rafale Dassault did the opposite and found out it is much more viable to convert a naval fighter into a air force variant.

 

[scatterStorm]

What your thoughts about this bird for VISHAL?

USMC F-35B fire its gun pod for the first time while flying

The pod, which is strapped to the belly of the Navy and Marine Corps jets, can fire at 55 rounds per second and carries 220 rounds of 25 mm caliber.

VTOL have much more mechanical parts, thus maintenance is tough nut to crack, F35C or F18 G and E variant are good for that role(especially for SEAD ops). The new conformal tanks boost its endurance for few more nautical miles too.



Good LO mission configurable and long endurance with new conformal fuel tanks.

And we can get F414 Enhanced engines with 18% more T/W ratio. We can negotiate to get help on our AMCA too, Engines will be usable on our AMCA, we can also get to learn to develop state-of-the-art production facility.

I personally believe that having two engines instead of one is good in some bad situations. I mean there are countless examples when an F18 went back to base with only one engine running. Also it's mission computers saves lives by helping pilots get out of Stall situations by auto-assisting the pilot. Happened to many US pilots.

In contrast to :



Although it's endurance can be increased with those drop tanks, but than you aren't towing more weapons right.

 

[Thrishul]

VTOL have much more mechanical parts, thus maintenance is tough nut to crack, F35C or F18 G and E variant are good for that role(especially for SEAD ops). The new conformal tanks boost its endurance for few more nautical miles too.



Good LO mission configurable and long endurance with new conformal fuel tanks.

And we can get F414 Enhanced engines with 18% more T/W ratio. We can negotiate to get help on our AMCA too, Engines will be usable on our AMCA, we can also get to learn to develop state-of-the-art production facility.

I personally believe that having two engines instead of one is good in some bad situations. I mean there are countless examples when an F18 went back to base with only one engine running. Also it's mission computers saves lives by helping pilots get out of Stall situations by auto-assisting the pilot. Happened to many US pilots.

In contrast to :



Although it's endurance can be increased with those drop tanks, but than you aren't towing more weapons right.

I agree with you, looking at it from a purely logistics view point the Government should go for the F-18 purely based on it's Engines the F-400/414 series.
The Engine series is used on the F-18, LCA Mk-1, 1A, 2, N etc and will be used on the AMCA.
Each engine is replace half way through the life of the aircraft, so looking at the total number of engines that will share spares will come up to about 2000+ engines.

 

[Filtercoffee]

I agree with you, looking at it from a purely logistics view point the Government should go for the F-18 purely based on it's Engines the F-400/414 series.
The Engine series is used on the F-18, LCA Mk-1, 1A, 2, N etc and will be used on the AMCA.
Each engine is replace half way through the life of the aircraft, so looking at the total number of engines that will share spares will come up to about 2000+ engines.

We also have extensive MIG - 29 A/UPG/K usage in the services. Due to a great robust record of these fighters and familiarity with RD series I hope continuation and number absorbtion of the MIG - 29 K does happen for the interim for the HAL aircraft to be certified, which is anytime this year for the LCA series, with the uprated Kaveri later in the decade.

 

[TPFscopes]

I agree with you, looking at it from a purely logistics view point the Government should go for the F-18 purely based on it's Engines the F-400/414 series.
The Engine series is used on the F-18, LCA Mk-1, 1A, 2, N etc and will be used on the AMCA.
Each engine is replace half way through the life of the aircraft, so looking at the total number of engines that will share spares will come up to about 2000+ engines.

I think Government is looking for maintain the commonality in naval & IAF fighters.
Further Dassault is looking for higher thurst Engine for RAFALE fleet and here SNECMA is in touch with India for developing a new engine which can be used with all future Indigenous jets and RAFALEs too.
Hence they will go for RAFALEs.

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian Navy unlikely to have more than 2 Aircraft Carrier fleet in the next 15 years
Notwithstanding the uncertain security scenario on the borders, the Indian Navy is not likely to expand its existing fleet of one aircraft carrier over the next 15 years.

This is because the Defence Procurement Board has reportedly decided to put India’s indigenous aircraft carrier 2 (IAC) plan on the back burner, according to sources.

The IAC-2 is not part of the 2017-19 annual acquisition plans of the Indian Navy.

“A three-member committee that was formed by former defence minister Manohar Parrikar for formulating specifications, costing and aircraft for the carrier has now been disbanded,” a highly placed source told FE.

While IAC-2 has been put on hold as of now, IAC-1 is expected to be rolled out only by 2023. “The Indian Navy’s first indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant is scheduled to roll out from the Cochin Shipyard by 2021-23, almost eight years late.

This leaves the Navy with one operational aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, the 45,000-tonne carrier bought from Russia, which is due for repairs soon,” the source said.

Earlier this year, Indian Navy’s Vice-Admiral D M Deshpande, controller of Warship Production and Acquisition, talking at Ficci’s international seminar on ‘Building India’s Future Navy: Technology Imperatives’, had indicated that the defence ministry remains uncertain about spending billions of dollars on a carrier. According to him, “an aircraft carrier is a huge ticket item and, before some commitments are made on allocation of these funds everybody wants to be very clear on the requirement, whether we actually need that. So these are being addressed before we actually take it up to the government for final clearances.”

According to reports, navies like the US Navy, the Royal Navy, the French, Russian and now even the Chinese PLA-N have all built their fleets around aircraft carriers, which enables them to project their power over long-distance from their home bases.
The PLA-N operates only its first-ever carrier, the 65,000-tonne Liaoning, which Beijing bought from Russia, refurbished, and commissioned in 2012. India has operated at least one aircraft carrier ever since INS Vikrant joined the fleet in 1961.

The PLA-N, however, now plans to commission and operate at least 5-6 carriers.
http://defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=263297