INS Vishal (IAC- II) Aircraft Carrier - Flattop or Ski Jump

[WolfPack86]

Indian Navy needs atleast 50 coventional submarines and 25 Nuclear attack submarines and 18 ballistic missile submarines. And also 250 naval multi role helicopters.

 

[Illusive]

Indian Navy unlikely to have more than 2 Aircraft Carrier fleet in the next 15 years
Notwithstanding the uncertain security scenario on the borders, the Indian Navy is not likely to expand its existing fleet of one aircraft carrier over the next 15 years.

This is because the Defence Procurement Board has reportedly decided to put India’s indigenous aircraft carrier 2 (IAC) plan on the back burner, according to sources.

The IAC-2 is not part of the 2017-19 annual acquisition plans of the Indian Navy.

“A three-member committee that was formed by former defence minister Manohar Parrikar for formulating specifications, costing and aircraft for the carrier has now been disbanded,” a highly placed source told FE.

While IAC-2 has been put on hold as of now, IAC-1 is expected to be rolled out only by 2023. “The Indian Navy’s first indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant is scheduled to roll out from the Cochin Shipyard by 2021-23, almost eight years late.

This leaves the Navy with one operational aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya, the 45,000-tonne carrier bought from Russia, which is due for repairs soon,” the source said.

Earlier this year, Indian Navy’s Vice-Admiral D M Deshpande, controller of Warship Production and Acquisition, talking at Ficci’s international seminar on ‘Building India’s Future Navy: Technology Imperatives’, had indicated that the defence ministry remains uncertain about spending billions of dollars on a carrier. According to him, “an aircraft carrier is a huge ticket item and, before some commitments are made on allocation of these funds everybody wants to be very clear on the requirement, whether we actually need that. So these are being addressed before we actually take it up to the government for final clearances.”

According to reports, navies like the US Navy, the Royal Navy, the French, Russian and now even the Chinese PLA-N have all built their fleets around aircraft carriers, which enables them to project their power over long-distance from their home bases.
The PLA-N operates only its first-ever carrier, the 65,000-tonne Liaoning, which Beijing bought from Russia, refurbished, and commissioned in 2012. India has operated at least one aircraft carrier ever since INS Vikrant joined the fleet in 1961.

The PLA-N, however, now plans to commission and operate at least 5-6 carriers.
http://defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=263297

Another MMRCA. Sometimes I think our defence has been compromised by these trojan horses.

 

[WolfPack86]

Looks like the Navy might go with a conventionally powered CATOBAR design for IAC-2

Vice Admiral D.M. Deshpande, Controller of Warship Production & Acquisition commented on the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier 2 (IAC-2) and Next Generation Destroyer (NDG) during the International Seminar on ‘Building India’s Future Navy: Technology Imperatives’, jointly organised by the Indian Navy and FICCI in New Delhi.

He clarified that both IAC-2 and NDG are at infancy stages, awaiting Approval-in-Principle from the Government of India. He shared the design vision for these two prestigious projects.

Displacement of IAC-2 will be of 65,000-tonne, with conventional propulsion system to clock maximum speed of 30 knots, have an air wing of 50-60 fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft and CATOBAR for its operations. Likewise, NDG will be of 13,000-tonne displacement with conventional propulsion system.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[Aghore_King]

Looks like the Navy might go with a conventionally powered CATOBAR design for IAC-2

Vice Admiral D.M. Deshpande, Controller of Warship Production & Acquisition commented on the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier 2 (IAC-2) and Next Generation Destroyer (NDG) during the International Seminar on ‘Building India’s Future Navy: Technology Imperatives’, jointly organised by the Indian Navy and FICCI in New Delhi.

He clarified that both IAC-2 and NDG are at infancy stages, awaiting Approval-in-Principle from the Government of India. He shared the design vision for these two prestigious projects.

Displacement of IAC-2 will be of 65,000-tonne, with conventional propulsion system to clock maximum speed of 30 knots, have an air wing of 50-60 fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft and CATOBAR for its operations. Likewise, NDG will be of 13,000-tonne displacement with conventional propulsion system.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal

We will have a true blue watwr navy with these beasts.....

 

[Nadeem 6877]

Looks like the Navy might go with a conventionally powered CATOBAR design for IAC-2

Vice Admiral D.M. Deshpande, Controller of Warship Production & Acquisition commented on the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier 2 (IAC-2) and Next Generation Destroyer (NDG) during the International Seminar on ‘Building India’s Future Navy: Technology Imperatives’, jointly organised by the Indian Navy and FICCI in New Delhi.

He clarified that both IAC-2 and NDG are at infancy stages, awaiting Approval-in-Principle from the Government of India. He shared the design vision for these two prestigious projects.

Displacement of IAC-2 will be of 65,000-tonne, with conventional propulsion system to clock maximum speed of 30 knots, have an air wing of 50-60 fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft and CATOBAR for its operations. Likewise, NDG will be of 13,000-tonne displacement with conventional propulsion system.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal

I think IAC 2 will be nuclear power but you said it will be conventional powered any source or link?

 

[Vijyes]

Looks like the Navy might go with a conventionally powered CATOBAR design for IAC-2

Vice Admiral D.M. Deshpande, Controller of Warship Production & Acquisition commented on the Indigenous Aircraft Carrier 2 (IAC-2) and Next Generation Destroyer (NDG) during the International Seminar on ‘Building India’s Future Navy: Technology Imperatives’, jointly organised by the Indian Navy and FICCI in New Delhi.

He clarified that both IAC-2 and NDG are at infancy stages, awaiting Approval-in-Principle from the Government of India. He shared the design vision for these two prestigious projects.

Displacement of IAC-2 will be of 65,000-tonne, with conventional propulsion system to clock maximum speed of 30 knots, have an air wing of 50-60 fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft and CATOBAR for its operations. Likewise, NDG will be of 13,000-tonne displacement with conventional propulsion system.
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TejasMrca/photos/?ref=page_internal

Conventional power is not really meaningful as it would mean unnecessary refuelling and heavy fuel expenditure. Also, if the conventional engine is imported MTU engine, it is another colossal blunder. It can be Kaveri Turbine too but as I said, they have unnecessarily high fuel expenditures and we have to rely of Arabs for the fuel.

Catobar is nothing but mechanical version of EMALs while EMALS is digital version of Catobar, operated by high powered motor from nuclear power. There is nothing wrong about Catobar technology and it requires lower maintenance

 

[Superdefender]

US to Provide EMALS Technology to India for Aircraft Carriers

This gesture ahead of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson's visit to India is another indication of the strategic alliance US wants to foster with India, informed sources said.
PTI
Updated: October 18, 2017, 3:26 PM IST
Washington: The US will provide the crucial Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) for the Indian Navy's future aircraft carrier, the Trump administration has informed India.
This gesture ahead of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson's visit to India is another indication of the strategic alliance the US wants to foster with India, informed sources said.
A formal date for Tillerson's visit has not been announced yet.
India had sent a letter of request to the US government during the Obama administration for the Electromagnetic Launch System (EMLAS) built by General Atomics for aircraft carrier planned by the Indian Navy.
The Indian Navy plans to integrate the US-made EMALS catapults into its future supercarriers.
Due to its flexible architecture, EMALS can launch a wide variety of aircraft weights and can be used on a variety of platforms with differing catapult configurations.
The Trump administration sent a response to India on Monday about its decision to release this technology.
Aerospace expert Dr Vivek Lall, chief executive, US and International Strategic Development, of General Atomics, had told PTI earlier that General Atomics is planning to open an office in Delhi to support the Indian government's military requirements.
Last month, Defence Secretary Jim Mattis visited India and decided to step up military-to-military cooperation.
The latest move comes after an endorsement by the Trump administration of the designation of India as a major defence partner by the previous Obama administration last year.
First Published: October 18, 2017, 3:10 PM IST

Link: http://www.news18.com/news/world/us...y-to-india-for-aircraft-carriers-1550359.html

 

[aliyah]

US to Provide EMALS Technology to India for Aircraft Carriers

This gesture ahead of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson's visit to India is another indication of the strategic alliance US wants to foster with India, informed sources said.
PTI
Updated: October 18, 2017, 3:26 PM IST
Washington: The US will provide the crucial Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) for the Indian Navy's future aircraft carrier, the Trump administration has informed India.
This gesture ahead of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson's visit to India is another indication of the strategic alliance the US wants to foster with India, informed sources said.
A formal date for Tillerson's visit has not been announced yet.
India had sent a letter of request to the US government during the Obama administration for the Electromagnetic Launch System (EMLAS) built by General Atomics for aircraft carrier planned by the Indian Navy.
The Indian Navy plans to integrate the US-made EMALS catapults into its future supercarriers.
Due to its flexible architecture, EMALS can launch a wide variety of aircraft weights and can be used on a variety of platforms with differing catapult configurations.
The Trump administration sent a response to India on Monday about its decision to release this technology.
Aerospace expert Dr Vivek Lall, chief executive, US and International Strategic Development, of General Atomics, had told PTI earlier that General Atomics is planning to open an office in Delhi to support the Indian government's military requirements.
Last month, Defence Secretary Jim Mattis visited India and decided to step up military-to-military cooperation.
The latest move comes after an endorsement by the Trump administration of the designation of India as a major defence partner by the previous Obama administration last year.
First Published: October 18, 2017, 3:10 PM IST

Link: http://www.news18.com/news/world/us...y-to-india-for-aircraft-carriers-1550359.html

never trust US until the thing is in our hands.......US has a habit of changing rules in middle.

 

[Vinod DX9]

US to Release EMALS Technology for Indian Aircraft Carriers.

The US has decided to release the crucial Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System for the Indian Navy's future aircraft carrier, according to the Trump administration.

The decision comes ahead of Secretary of State Rex Tillerson's visit to India. A formal date of the visit has not been announced yet.

The Trump administration has informed India of its decision.

India had sent a letter of request to the US government during the Obama administration for the Electromagnetic Launch System (EMLAS) built by General Atomics for aircraft carrier planned by the Indian Navy.

Due to its flexible architecture, EMALS can launch a wide variety of aircraft weights and can be used on a variety of platforms with differing catapult configurations.

The Trump administration sent a response to India on Monday about its decision to release this technology.

Aerospace expert Dr Vivek Lall, chief executive, US and International Strategic Development, of General Atomics had told earlier that General Atomics is planning to open an office in Delhi to support the Indian government's military requirements.

The Indian Navy plans to integrate the US-made EMALS catapults into its future supercarriers.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Navy drops cherished dream of nuclear-powered aircraft carrier


The Indian Navy’s second indigenous aircraft carrier, INS Vishal, will not be – as has been widely reported – an American-style, nuclear-powered “flat-top”. Instead, it will be a conventionally powered 65,000-70,000 tonne vessel, housing some 55 aircraft and incorporating a state-of-the-art “electro-magnetic aircraft launch system” (EMALS) to catapult aircraft off the carrier.
This is the configuration being cleared through the defence ministry; Business Standard has learned through off-the-record interviews with five officials directly connected with the INS Vishal project.
The INS Vishal proposal is before the Services Capital Acquisition Categorisation Higher Committee, headed by the Chief of Integrated Defence Staff. Before the year-end, it could be cleared by the ministry’s apex Defence Acquisition Council, chaired by the defence minister. Given its stratospheric cost, it will also require clearance from the Cabinet Committee on Security.
The navy, which was eager to incorporate nuclear propulsion for INS Vishal, has been told by the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) that it would take 15-20 years to develop a nuclear reactor powerful enough for an aircraft carrier, incorporating features to protect it from the corrosive and dynamic marine environment.
BARC has successfully developed a 190 Megawatt (MW) reactor for India’s fleet of four-to-six nuclear propelled, nuclear missile carrying submarines, of which the first – INS Arihant – has already been commissioned. However, INS Vishal would require a reactor capable of generating at least 500-550 MW. That means developing a brand new, miniaturised reactor, ruggedized against a marine environment.
Nor is such a 550 MW reactor in the development pipeline, because of a dispute over who will pay the bill. Says an indignant navy admiral: “BARC wants us to place a ‘developmental contract’ to fund the reactor’s development. Why should we do that?”
Contacted by email for comments, BARC did not respond.
Instead of nuclear reactors, an Integrated Electric Propulsion System (IEPS) will now drive INS Vishal. This will be based on gas turbines that drive generators to produce electricity. The electricity will rotate powerful electrical motors that will turn the warship’s propellers, driving it through the water.
In a nuclear powered warship, the reactor produces steam to drive the electrical generators that produce electricity. That drives the motors and, in turn, the propellers.
The challenge in designing a ship-borne nuclear reactor includes protecting it from saline corrosion, shock, impact and developing the radiation shielding needed to protect the crew – which would spend longer periods of time, in closer proximity to the reactors, than in land-based nuclear power generation plants. In addition, are the issues around refuelling the reactor cores and storing spent fuel.
Designing an IEPS-driven vessel involves different challenges, including identifying a compatible combination of gas turbines, generators and motors, says a designer involved in INS Vishal. Industry sources say India’s choice of conventional propulsion opens the doors for British and French shipyards to provide design assistance. Both are building conventionally powered aircraft carriers, while the US has built only nuclear powered carriers for decades.
Crucially, Indian Navy designers have concluded that an EMALS can be powered through gas turbine driven generators. The navy wants INS Vishal to have a catapult launch facility, which allows the launch of heavier and more diverse aircraft than the ski-jump launch fitted on Indian carriers – the in-service INS Vikramaditya and the under-construction INS Vikrant. Instead of six-decade-old steam catapult technology, the navy has decided to equip INS Vishal with EMALS, which America has fitted for the first time on its newest aircraft carrier, USS Gerald R Ford.
EMALS features what its maker, General Atomics, calls a “dial-up-a-power-level”, allowing catapult power to be adjusted to launch aircraft of completely different sizes – from a light drone to a 60-tonne P-3C Orion maritime surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft. EMALS can launch many more aircraft per hour and is easier to maintain. Steam catapults are more subject to corrosion and put far greater stress on the aircraft being launched.

Link

 

[Willy2]

BARC has successfully developed a 190 Megawatt (MW) reactor for India’s fleet of four-to-six nuclear propelled, nuclear missile carrying submarines, of which the first – INS Arihant – has already been commissioned. However, INS Vishal would require a reactor capable of generating at least 500-550 MW.

Why not use multiple reactor then ? Enterprise run on 4 reactors , Nimitz on 2 probably ...3 ,190mw will do our job

 

[Illusive]

Why not use multiple reactor then ? Enterprise run on 4 reactors , Nimitz on 2 probably ...3 ,190mw will do our job

I guess it takes too much space. . .

 

[Armand2REP]

Why not use multiple reactor then ? Enterprise run on 4 reactors , Nimitz on 2 probably ...3 ,190mw will do our job

Enterprise used 8 reactors and it was the only one ever produced because of it's refueling cost.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Nor is such a 550 MW reactor in the development pipeline, because of a dispute over who will pay the bill. Says an indignant navy admiral: “BARC wants us to place a ‘developmental contract’ to fund the reactor’s development. Why should we do that?”

Why won't you(NAVY) do that when you are going to the sole customer of this reactor?

Where is the logic behind reducing the capability of the Carrier by almost half just because you don't want to pay for the thing which is supposed to be developed for you only?

Do we tax-payers need to find new meaning for the word 'illogical'?

EMALS features what its maker, General Atomics, calls a “dial-up-a-power-level”, allowing catapult power to be adjusted to launch aircraft of completely different sizes – from a light drone to a 60-tonne P-3C Orion maritime surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft. EMALS can launch many more aircraft per hour and is easier to maintain

If so, then why Drop N-LCA MK-2 (citing lack of adequate thurst for carrier launch) which can not only notch up numbers(an asset) aboard carrier but also provide a stepping stone to designers and producers presently engaged with designing and later developing N-AMCA?

Buying F/A-18s and latter F-35Cs plus E-2Ds is ok(despite the fact that it is illogical in long-term) for trading EMLS and some geopolitical gains. But killing a greater section of indigenous defence industry just to buy it will never be logically ok........... It will most certainly negate many of said gains.

EMLS is just one piece of technology which can be developed outside of USA just like Chinese are doing. But it seems like it is one hell of tech. greater in complexity than sending a probe to Mars that we are ready to kill everything else for it.

 

[VIP]

Nor is such a 550 MW reactor in the development pipeline, because of a dispute over who will pay the bill. Says an indignant navy admiral: “BARC wants us to place a ‘developmental contract’ to fund the reactor’s development. Why should we do that?”

Apne ghar ke paise nikal rahe ho kya? Much of the fund is sent back to govt every year, idiots don't want to get things done, jaichands everywhere.

 

[Tactical Frog]

EMLS is just one piece of technology which can be developed outside of USA just like Chinese are doing. But it seems like it is one hell of tech. greater in complexity than sending a probe to Mars that we are ready to kill everything else for it.

I always wondered, is it something that can be sub-contracted to Japanese firms ? A better way of solidifying a Japanese-Indian partnership than spending $1 billion for a few seaplanes.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

I only have one question. What will be the endurance of our carrier without nuclear power.

 

[Aghore_King]

I always wondered, is it something that can be sub-contracted to Japanese firms ? A better way of solidifying a Japanese-Indian partnership than spending $1 billion for a few seaplanes.

Japanese don't want to share their tech with us....they dropped out of P 75i....

 

[Aghore_King]

I always wondered, is it something that can be sub-contracted to Japanese firms ? A better way of solidifying a Japanese-Indian partnership than spending $1 billion for a few seaplanes.

Japanese don't want to share their tech with us....they dropped out of P 75i....

 

[TPFscopes]

I only have one question. What will be the endurance of our carrier without nuclear power.

India has no need to travel round the globe with ACC for combat missions so that is why we don't have that much requirements of high endurance and nuclear power for ACC.
Also, India need only two operational Aircraft Carriers with additional one for maintenance replacement.

By the way, INS Vikramaditya has endurance of nearly 2 months with nearly 25000kms while cruising which will further improved in INS Vikrant.