INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

Pulkit

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sorry could nt find any definate source which states that ... but there is a very high probability that it will be capable to operating naval strike helicopters because i dont know of any reasons why it cannot or why it should not....
@abhi_the _gr8_maratha @ersakthivel any information you are having about it please share....


sorry , my question is

is Vikrant class Aircraft Carrier capable of operating or carrying an naval strike helicopters like Kamov Ka-52K 'Hokum B' naval attack helicopters ?
 
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SilentKiller

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Well why opt for K-52??
When army and airforce is going for Apache, why not navy?
We are already thinking to have 22 (air force) + 39 ( Army - count might increase to 60 in future), navy can too get 10-15 of these.
As count of Apaches is quite much now, we can have some assembly in india with enough ToT, even 80-90% tech is enough for india right now.
We might not be able to absorb all tech right away it will take some time.
All our frigates and destroyers need 2 helicopters so it might be in number of (3 Shivalik class * 2 = 6 Heli), (7 P-17A*2 = 14 Heli), (3 P-15A * 2 = 6), (3 (P-15B *2 = 6) so will need total 32 Helicopters only for them. 6 helicopters r needed for talwar class.
around 30 helicopters r needed for both AC's so if we take every ship and offshore based helicopters too, then we require in >300 helicopters.
So if we take 2 class (1 medium and other light) then minimum we can ask for them to be constructed in india.
moreover i don't think attack helicopters r needed for Aircraft carriers but are more needed for ships such as LHD's that india is planning to get 4 in total.
 

bhramos

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All our frigates and destroyers need 2 helicopters so it might be in number of (3 Shivalik class * 2 = 6 Heli), (7 P-17A*2 = 14 Heli), (3 P-15A * 2 = 6), (3 (P-15B *2 = 6) so will need total 32 Helicopters only for them. 6 helicopters r needed for talwar class.
around 30 helicopters r needed for both AC's so if we take every ship and offshore based helicopters too, then we require in >300 helicopters.
So if we take 2 class (1 medium and other light) then minimum we can ask for them to be constructed in india.
moreover i don't think attack helicopters r needed for Aircraft carriers but are more needed for ships such as LHD's that india is planning to get 4 in total.
Apache good
but 2 Apache for other boats bad move,
as we also need ASW, AEW, SAR Heli's too
 

Kranthi

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Well why opt for K-52??
When army and airforce is going for Apache, why not navy?
We are already thinking to have 22 (air force) + 39 ( Army - count might increase to 60 in future), navy can too get 10-15 of these.
As count of Apaches is quite much now, we can have some assembly in india with enough ToT, even 80-90% tech is enough for india right now.
We might not be able to absorb all tech right away it will take some time.
All our frigates and destroyers need 2 helicopters so it might be in number of (3 Shivalik class * 2 = 6 Heli), (7 P-17A*2 = 14 Heli), (3 P-15A * 2 = 6), (3 (P-15B *2 = 6) so will need total 32 Helicopters only for them. 6 helicopters r needed for talwar class.
around 30 helicopters r needed for both AC's so if we take every ship and offshore based helicopters too, then we require in >300 helicopters.
So if we take 2 class (1 medium and other light) then minimum we can ask for them to be constructed in india.
moreover i don't think attack helicopters r needed for Aircraft carriers but are more needed for ships such as LHD's that india is planning to get 4 in total.
Guys how are 16 MRH sufficient for our fleet ? Seemingly all the sea kings are to be phased out. Then even if we consider front line warships, 3 for P15A, 4 for P15B, 3 for P17, 3 for Delhi class, 4 for P28 and 'atleast' 3 for each carrier.

All these ships must have an ASW helo no matter what mission they are on. considering existing Kamovs can cover rajputs, talwars and other frigates, still we need atleast around 23 to 25 ASW helos. Even P17A might start deliveries by 2020, and also P28A. How can we cater for all these ?

Btw how many ka-28s do we have ?
Did vikky come with a complement of Kamovs ?
 
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Sam Manekshaw

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Barak-8 surface-to-air missile trials slated for October

The long-awaited Barak long-range surface-to-air missile may be integrated with Indian warships within a "few months," if the missile's final trials slated next month succeed, said Navy officials.

"Trials of the LR-SAM are scheduled for September end. It may be delayed by a few days to take place in the first week of October. If the trials are successful, the missile may be inducted within a few months," said Rear Admiral A B Singh, assistant chief of naval staff in charge of policy and plans.

The missile being developed jointly by the Israel Aerospace Industries and the Defence Research and Development Organisation under a Rs 2,606 crore project, is in the works for a decade. The delay is impacting the Indian warship's air defence capabilities.

Because of the delay, the navy's new platform INS Kolkata, to be commissioned by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on August 16, will not have the air defence missile.
The missile will be fitted later when it will be fully ready for operational use.

The project is being delayed by four years, triggering concerns in the navy. Even the September trial was originally scheduled for August, but had to be shifted to a later date due to technical glitches associated with the performance of some of the parameters.

Besides the 6,800-tonne new destroyer, aircraft carrier Vikrant and the two future sister ships of INS Kolkata – INS Kochi and INS Chennai – too will be fitted with the Barak long-range missile that will have a range of 70 km.
"Each of the next two Kolkata class ships would be commissioned with a gap of eight months each," said Vice Admiral A V Subhedar, controller of warship production and acquisition.

Within a week of commissioning the INS Kolkata, Defence Minister Arun Jaitley will commission an indigenous anti-submarine warfare corvette INS Kamorta in Visakhapatnam on August 23. It will be followed by three more ships of the same class Kadmat, Kiltan and Kavrati.

Both ships experienced serious delays. While the P-15A – the project to construct three Kolkata class ship at Mazgaon dock, Mumbai – is delayed by four years, the INS Kamorta was to be inducted in the Navy by two years.

The time overrun also led to a massive hike in the cost. The three Kolkata-class destroyers were to be made at a cost of Rs 3,580 crore as per the original proposal, prepared more than a decade ago.

But the cost has now gone up to Rs 11,662 crore. Similarly the cost of the manufacturing of four Kamorta class vessels too went up from Rs 3,051 crore to Rs 7,800 crore. Both warships have high level of indigenous material, systems and equipment.

Barak-8 surface-to-air missile trials slated for October | idrw.org
 

Dhairya Yadav

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thats true, we are woefully short of ASW helicopters... Sea Kings are Vintage with last gen tech, we need newer and better helicopters. Soln is to upgrade the current fleet while adding new ones. We received 4 Ka 28, 5 Ka 31 with Vikram. excluding these , we have 16 Ka 28 which entered service in late 80s and 9 Ka 31 delivered b/t 1999 to 2004.
 
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PaliwalWarrior

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Guys how are 16 MRH sufficient for our fleet ? Seemingly all the sea kings are to be phased out. Then even if we consider front line warships, 3 for P15A, 4 for P15B, 3 for P17, 3 for Delhi class, 4 for P28 and 'atleast' 3 for each carrier.

All these ships must have an ASW helo no matter what mission they are on. considering existing Kamovs can cover rajputs, talwars and other frigates, still we need atleast around 23 to 25 ASW helos. Even P17A might start deliveries by 2020, and also P28A. How can we cater for all these ?

Btw how many ka-28s do we have ?
Did vikky come with a complement of Kamovs ?

see 2P15A are atleast 3 years away
4P15B are also years away
rest are also years away

16 Helos have been ordered this year more may be ordered in due & sufficient timeframe
 

Dhairya Yadav

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will IAC only occupy tejas or only MiG29K or combi? Tejas could be used as fleet defence while MiGs can perform strike missions...
 

Defcon 1

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will IAC only occupy tejas or only MiG29K or combi? Tejas could be used as fleet defence while MiGs can perform strike missions...
IN has ordered 8 NLCA Mk1. They will primarily be used for acclimatising the navy to the LCA platform and training duties. The NLCA mk2 ordered will see air defence duties for naval bases. So IAC1 will be using only Mig29K for combat roles. And that role will primarily be fleet defence. Neither NLCA nor Mig 29K are dedicated strike aircrafts, although the Mig29K can perform strike roles if needed.
 

Santu

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IN has ordered 8 NLCA Mk1. They will primarily be used for acclimatising the navy to the LCA platform and training duties. The NLCA mk2 ordered will see air defence duties for naval bases. So IAC1 will be using only Mig29K for combat roles. And that role will primarily be fleet defence. Neither NLCA nor Mig 29K are dedicated strike aircrafts, although the Mig29K can perform strike roles if needed.
if we dont use them for strike role then what's the point in CBG??
 

Defcon 1

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if we dont use them for strike role then what's the point in CBG??
Maintaining Combat air patrols to defend the carrier against enemy aircraft and performing anti ship operations. Low useful payload due to lack of catapult constrains the ability of the aircraft to perform strike operations. Don't compare this CBG to American CBGs.
 

Kranthi

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Maintaining Combat air patrols to defend the carrier against enemy aircraft and performing anti ship operations. Low useful payload due to lack of catapult constrains the ability of the aircraft to perform strike operations. Don't compare this CBG to American CBGs.
Why deploy a CBG in the first place and then defend it with all that it has got... Isn't that a bit awkward ? I do expect a better role from these fighters.

And also we don't need the NLCA for defending the naval bases.. The LCA is just fine I guess. I think the navy does have plans to place the Mk II on our carriers.. Or do you say that the NLCA 1 & 2 programs are just warm up exercises for the naval AMCA ? I hope they are not.. :)
 

Defcon 1

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Why deploy a CBG in the first place and then defend it with all that it has got... Isn't that a bit awkward ? I do expect a better role from these fighters.
A CBG is deployed because it radically changes the power equations in the areas where it is deployed. And they are always defended with all that its got. Look how US CBGs are defended. An aircraft carrier is the most expensive and important naval vessel and it is always given the best protection.

And also we don't need the NLCA for defending the naval bases.. The LCA is just fine I guess. I think the navy does have plans to place the Mk II on our carriers.. Or do you say that the NLCA 1 & 2 programs are just warm up exercises for the naval AMCA ? I hope they are not..
No, Navy has already planned Mig29K for INS Vikramaditya and IAC1. IAC2 and subsequent ships will see CATOBAR capable fighters. So there is no space for NLCA on carriers. Yes NLCA program is just a warmup exercise. If navy was really serious about NLCA, it wouldn't have planned Mig29K for IAC1.
 

Punya Pratap

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I was just wondering when the IAF & IN pilots will go for joint exercises between each other?? I understand IAF gets a lot of exposure from the foreign Air force exercises like Red Flag & Cope but IN fighter pilots dont and they would benefit immensely by flying with/against mock battle scenario's with IAF's finest!!

I know IN pilots are trained partly by IAF but since they have started training on their own Hawk's I think the connect should be there between the two forces pilots. Firstly coz they will have to co-ordinate in future battle scenario's and secondly coz exchange of fighting doctrines is always a good thing especially since IN does nt have a TACDE of its own. Third reason is IAF & IN will share common platforms like Mig 29's and LCA's so makes sense!

No matter what fighters the IAC's or Vikramaditya carries but the IN pilots need to excel and interactions and air exercises with IAF should be encouraged and made a norm every year!!

I think I should post it to Naval Aviations and IAF thread!!
 

ladder

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I was just wondering when the IAF & IN pilots will go for joint exercises between each other?? I understand IAF gets a lot of exposure from the foreign Air force exercises like Red Flag & Cope but IN fighter pilots dont and they would benefit immensely by flying with/against mock battle scenario's with IAF's finest!!

I know IN pilots are trained partly by IAF but since they have started training on their own Hawk's I think the connect should be there between the two forces pilots. Firstly coz they will have to co-ordinate in future battle scenario's and secondly coz exchange of fighting doctrines is always a good thing especially since IN does nt have a TACDE of its own. Third reason is IAF & IN will share common platforms like Mig 29's and LCA's so makes sense!

No matter what fighters the IAC's or Vikramaditya carries but the IN pilots need to excel and interactions and air exercises with IAF should be encouraged and made a norm every year!!

I think I should post it to Naval Aviations and IAF thread!!
They do train together. Some naval aviators are attached to air force squadrons and vice versa. I think Jaguar IM and Harriers have/ had exercise together, but have to conform.


Excerpt from news article from year 2000.

India's most sophisticated fighter jet, Sukhoi-30 would for the first time be seen in action in a manoeuvre over the Indian seas along with IAF's Jaguar combat planes and the Indian Navy's Sea Harrier jumpjets in one of the biggest-ever exercises in the Arabian Sea which got underway today.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000203/nation.htm#2
 
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Punya Pratap

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Thanks for the info Ladder but while going through the TACDE website T.A.C.D.E, Indian Airforce I just found this :

In addition to the helicopter courses, TACDE has been regularly conducting Dissimilar Air Combat Training (DACT) courses every year for the Sea Harrier pilots of the Indian Navy.

I was referring to the Mig 29 K/KUB pilots of IN....have nt come across any joint exercises of the Black Panthers with IAF units!! TACDE should also take in the MIG 29K/KUB pilots !!

Its just a thought I got while going through TACDE link and knowing that the IN pilots are training on their own hawks !!
 

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