INS Vikrant Aircraft Carrier (IAC)

[Aditya Ballal]

 

[fire starter]

 

[Narasimh]

Considering this whole lift saga, Navy should have just ordered at least a couple squadrons of Naval Tejas. At least five of these can be onboard both the carriers apart from the MiGs and act as a good training/point defense for the battle group or something. For other roles use the MiGs.

I Just dont get this tendency of waiting for only the best version of the fighter for a country that is riddled with economic and security challenges. Make do with your home built OK version of the fighter for god sakes!

US had A-4s, France had Super Entendards, which were single engine light fighters of limited capability and had much more capable peers during their time, still their Navy/govt. supported and operated them.

 

[abingdonboy]

Considering this whole lift saga, Navy should have just ordered at least a couple squadrons of Naval Tejas. At least five of these can be onboard both the carriers apart from the MiGs and act as a good training/point defense for the battle group or something. For other roles use the MiGs.

I Just dont get this tendency of waiting for only the best version of the fighter for a country that is riddled with economic and security challenges. Make do with your home built OK version of the fighter for god sakes!

US had A-4s, France had Super Entendards, which were single engine light fighters of limited capability and had much more capable peers during their time, still their Navy/govt. supported and operated them.

NLCA story is largely over- IN made up its mind long ago it wasn’t going to accept it, not after they got a taste of 2 engined high performance fighters

Alas not all is lost- NLCA’s lessons will be invaluable for TEDBF and TEDBF will directly benefit from the foundations laid by NLCA


Would be pretty awesome if the IN could order just 8 purely for carrier qualification duties to take the load off of the fast depleting (and fragile) 29K fleet- especially as it seems the 29KUBs are being particularly battered.

all that data would be extremely valuable for TEDBF

 

[Narasimh]

NLCA story is largely over- IN made up its mind long ago it wasn’t going to accept it, not after they got a taste of 2 engined high performance fighters

Alas not all is lost- NLCA’s lessons will be invaluable for TEDBF and TEDBF will directly benefit from the foundations laid by NLCA


Would be pretty awesome if the IN could order just 8 purely for carrier qualification duties to take the load off of the fast depleting (and fragile) 29K fleet- especially as it seems the 29KUBs are being particularly battered.

all that data would be extremely valuable for TEDBF

the spin-offs for TEDBF is great and let it happen with time but in the mean time let Tejas continue as a trainer or whatever other role Navy can accomodate.. TEDBF will come in another 10-12 years, meanwhile have the HAL produce a squadron of the naval tejas and achieve better economies of scale in the process.
The difference of time between a Naval Tejas induction(if ordered within1-2years) and the TEDBF would still be 10-12 years I guess. Unless Navy thinks it can reduce this time, they should go for the Tejas.

 

[abingdonboy]

the spin-offs for TEDBF is great and let it happen with time but in the mean time let Tejas continue as a trainer or whatever other role Navy can accomodate.. TEDBF will come in another 10-12 years, meanwhile have the HAL produce a squadron of the naval tejas and achieve better economies of scale in the process.
The difference of time between a Naval Tejas induction(if ordered within1-2years) and the TEDBF would still be 10-12 years I guess. Unless Navy thinks it can reduce this time, they should go for the Tejas.

The IN isn’t interested in paying for it that’s the issue. One can understand it to an extent from their point of view- they have tight budgets and if they don’t see NLCA as a fully combat ready platform they don’t want to pay for it

that said, for reasons I said above (issues with 29Ks) it would be prudent for training purposes

Indian military’s defining characteristic is myopia though

 

[Narasimh]

The IN isn’t interested in paying for it that’s the issue. One can understand it to an extent from their point of view- they have tight budgets and if they don’t see NLCA as a fully combat ready platform they don’t want to pay for it

that said, for reasons I said above (issues with 29Ks) it would be prudent for training purposes

Indian military’s defining characteristic is myopia though

well Navy is the flag bearer of "Atma Nirbhar" among the three services, so hoping they make right decision and get a squadron or two which should be manageable.

 

[abingdonboy]

well Navy is the flag bearer of "Atma Nirbhar" among the three services, so hoping they make right decision and get a squadron or two which should be manageable.

More rhetoric than facts

look at sorry story of NUH

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

Onboard India's Indigenous Aircraft Carrier Vikrant: See Photos

Indigenous Aircraft Carrier 'Vikrant', the largest and most complex warship India has ever designed and built, successfully accomplished its first sea voyage just days ago.

www.ndtv.com

 

[Nationalist Manasvi Papa]

 

[lixun]

Couldn't have explained it better in my life

And the 2nd last sentence is reason why I said we should simply get few augmenting squadrons Mig-35 as stopgap till MWF-AMCA, instead of MMRCA+MRCBF. We already spent Indian taxpayer money on developing its basis Mig-29K & IAF will operate 62+21+41 of these till 2045.

Su 27K/su33 performance

Empty weight 19.6t

Internal oil 9.5t

The maximum take-off weight of the aircraft carrier is 33t, and the take-off load of the aircraft carrier is 13.4t

The maximum landing weight is 24.5t (the limit is 26 tons)
Landing load 4.9t




mig29k

Empty weight 11.98t, 12.33t (mig29kub)
Inner oil 5700L about 4.5t
The maximum take-off weight of the aircraft carrier is 20.31t,
The maximum take-off load of the aircraft carrier is 8.337t
The maximum landing weight is 14.55t,
The maximum return load is about 2.57t


This is the data I found, you can show your data.
There is another thing. Regarding engine performance, the RD33K-S3 engine has a special working state, which can work for 10s at 92.1kn, but without FADEC, it is actually not very useful.

 

[lixun]

Firstly you don't know shit, China never bought Mig-29.

2ndly it has 2000km ferry-range now kiddo.. Mig-29k is basically Mig-35.

Nope eat you bat testicles & go to sleep.

China was allowed to buy mig29 at the beginning, but China was not satisfied with it. The Chinese Air Force used personal relations to (recall the time when fighting for communism with Soviet officers) China got the most advanced version that was just equipped with the Soviet Air Defense Force. su27

 

[lixun]

It does.. Mig-29k short takeoffs at only 130-150kmph from carriers instead of 270kmph, Su-33 or J-15 at 120kmph. So you need the skyjump to set it in a projectile path.

Vikrant speed can add another 55kmph to it w.r.t the surrounding air.

It's also common practice to face the wind.

The slope of the ski jump deck is different, and the length of the short runway is different. How do you compare?

 

[Bleh]

The slope of the ski jump deck is different, and the length of the short runway is different. How do you compare?

This I don't know the technical details about.. No comments.

 

[lixun]

Soviet carrier philosophy in late 80s:
Naval Mig-29 : To be a multirole fighter, doing most of the anti-shipping and anti-land operations
Naval Su-27: To provide air-superiority. Less payload, optimized in air-air role.

Interestingly both fighter were meant to operated together from Kuznetsov and its follow-on carriers.

However, after dissolution of Soviet Union they ran out of funds and concentrated only on Naval Su-27. By the late 90s, the Mig Corporation was financially bankrupt, while Sukhoi Corporation was handed a financial lifeline by the IAF through the local massive Su-30 mki order.However by 2010, it was clear to Russian MOD that though Su-27 was a great platform as a airforce fighter plane, it was not suitable for carrier operations.

Luckily for Russsian Navy, the backup solution was at hand. Indian Navy has sponsored the developement of Mig-29K platform. So RN is now ordering Mig-29K as well.

The Soviet aircraft carrier is different from the United States. The Soviet aircraft carrier has only one purpose. It provides air cover for cruisers and nuclear submarines. The su33 with better interception performance is more suitable for the Soviet Union.

 

[lixun]

This I don't know the technical details about.. No comments.

As for the J15 only hanging on air-to-air missiles, it is very simple. The first mission of the Chinese aircraft carrier is to provide air defense cover for the 052D. It is impossible for the J15 to break through the US naval air defense network, and India is to attack the Pakistani navy.

 

[fire starter]

 

[kamaal]

Best time for the navy to think about upgrading 29Ks and order 15-20 more to fill the gap. 60 Migs will be enough for simultaneous operations on 2 carriers.

NLCA is not suitable for operations and TEDBF is at least 15 years away from induction, adding 15 years of life in Mig 29Ks seems viable option.

Upgradation list :
1. Powerful and reliable engine from Russia.
2. Complete avionics from indigenous sources.

 

[fire starter]

 

[WARREN SS]

Best time for the navy to think about upgrading 29Ks and order 15-20 more to fill the gap. 60 Migs will be enough for simultaneous operations on 2 carriers.

NLCA is not suitable for operations and TEDBF is at least 15 years away from induction, adding 15 years of life in Mig 29Ks seems viable option.

Upgradation list :
1. Powerful and reliable engine from Russia.
2. Complete avionics from indigenous sources.

Rather Leasing 18-20 F-18 hornets will be a better idea amount of Weapons package and Avionics range it gives is beyond mig-29K

Which is Unreliable platform and poor serviceability

Also Uncompatible with New ASW platforms like P8I and Sikorsky SH-60 Asw

If lift is 11ft or need a refit

As now Hornet is 9.322 metres folded

Hope Navy will pitch for it extensively

If india needs to have Edge on its adversaries
Then its need best not second best

Now
It cannot be settle for Second best after spending over 10-15 billion $ on 2 CBG groups