INS Chakra/Akula II

[Kunal Biswas]

Afaik, Arihant is a hybrid ( SSN+SSBN+SSGN ) is design for multi-role ..

 

[arnabmit]

its business my friend...

why blame the russians.... when GOI could have bought it much cheaper rate during relatively good times they didnt... now everyone knows India needs subs ASAP... so why not earn some extra profit...!!

Yeah, obviously! Its pure business. Thats why Ruskis shouldn't claim "special nature of relationship" and "deep bonds" and cry a river when contracts go elsewhere.

If you want favoritism while applying for contracts, then reciprocate from the other end as well. Else shut the eff up and do professional business.

 

[Neil]

Yeah, obviously! Its pure business. Thats why Ruskis shouldn't claim "special nature of relationship" and "deep bonds" and cry a river when contracts go elsewhere.

If you want favoritism while applying for contracts, then reciprocate from the other end as well. Else shut the eff up and do professional business.

agreed... well everyone makes noise when they dont get the deal... US UK germany all cried when they didnt get MMRCA deal... who cares...!!

well i dont know about special relation but u gotta say there is a high level of mutual trust with russia that we dont really share with any other country...

 

[Neil]

India likely to take second nuclear submarine from Russia on lease


Faced with a depleting fleet of submarines, India is expected to acquire on lease a nuclear submarine from Russia, a deal for which may be finalised during Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's visit there starting today.

The move to acquire the second nuclear submarine from Russia comes two months after the Navy's frontline Russian- origin Kilo Class INS Sindhurakshak submarine sank at the Mumbai harbour after an explosion suspected to have occurred in its torpedo section.

A proposal in this regard was approved by the Cabinet Committee on Security headed by the Prime Minister in its recent meeting. The deal is expected to cost India more than Rs 6,000 crore, highly-placed government sources told PTI.

The Indian Navy is already operating one Akula II Class nuclear submarine–Nerpa. The over 8,000-tonne warship was inducted in April last year at the Visakhapatnam-based Eastern Naval Command and renamed 'INS Chakra'.

Under the project, India is planning to finance the construction of an old Akula Class submarine 'Irbis' in Russia, which could not be completed during the 1990s due to the lack of funds after the break up of the erstwhile USSR.

The two countries have been holding negotiations in this regard for quite some time and they were concluded recently. The construction of the submarine is expected to take at least three to four years.

India's submarine fleet, which is getting old, suffered a huge blow after the sinking of the INS Sindhurakshak at the Mumbai harbour, killing all the 18 people on-board.


courtesy PTI..

India likely to take second nuclear submarine from Russia on lease | idrw.org

 

[Bheeshma]

Good Iribis would be a welcome addition to IN. That way by 2020 IN should have 3-4 arihants and 2 Akulas.

 

[natarajan]

I remember 2 engineer in nuclear submarine project got killed and now leasing of second ssn.Did those people cracked how to make ssn like akula in india and the bookies and govenment killed as it would kill their huge kickbacks ?

 

[drkrn]

I remember 2 engineer in nuclear submarine project got killed and now leasing of second ssn.Did those people cracked how to make ssn like akula in india and the bookies and govenment killed as it would kill their huge kickbacks ?

building a copy with in years can only be done by tony stark dude.

 

[natarajan]

i didt mean copy but they might have been in developing blueprint for ssn.Even ssk is possible when they can build ssbn but just netas crook mindset is playing here

 

[DivineHeretic]

Afaik, Arihant is a hybrid ( SSN+SSBN+SSGN ) is design for multi-role ..

A SSBN should theoretically be capable of performing the role of an SSGN with the right modifications. As such, an Arihant SSBN should be capable of performing the SSGN role sometime in the future.

But with a relatively weak power output of the nuclear reactor, Arihant is unlikely to reach the speeds of a traditional SSN. Without speed, Arihant will neither be able to give chase to enemy ships nor flee from hostile ASW operations.

That does not imply that it cannot hunt ships. It could most definitely undertake ambushes, especially along predictable routes. But it will be unable to catch up with an enemy ship.

So I'll stick my neck out and say that while it will be an effective SSGN and an SSBN, its role as an SSN is highly doubtful

 

[happy]

A SSBN should theoretically be capable of performing the role of an SSGN with the right modifications. As such, an Arihant SSBN should be capable of performing the SSGN role sometime in the future.

But with a relatively weak power output of the nuclear reactor, Arihant is unlikely to reach the speeds of a traditional SSN. Without speed, Arihant will neither be able to give chase to enemy ships nor flee from hostile ASW operations.

That does not imply that it cannot hunt ships. It could most definitely undertake ambushes, especially along predictable routes. But it will be unable to catch up with an enemy ship.

So I'll stick my neck out and say that while it will be an effective SSGN and an SSBN, its role as an SSN is highly doubtful

IMO your theory might just hold true if the power output is really just 83 MW. Is there any chance that this is not true????

 

[DivineHeretic]

IMO your theory might just hold true if the power output is really just 83 MW. Is there any chance that this is not true????

AFAIK, there is a design project ongoing for the development of a 180 MW reactor for the next gen SSBNs/SSNs. But that is still quite sometime away and there is no guarantee the new reactor will be designed to be fitted on the first gen Arihant(s).

In any case, the newer Subs will be considerably larger and therefore it would make sense that the new reactor will be larger to take advantage of increased space.

And as far as the 83 MW reactor is concerned, that number has been quoted by almost all the sources so far, both officially as well as privately, so I wouldn't lose sleep over that number being false just yet

 

[drkrn]

i didt mean copy but they might have been in developing blueprint for ssn.Even ssk is possible when they can build ssbn but just netas crook mindset is playing here

our infra is not that matured yet to make a good ssn/ssk.we need assistance for some more time till we pick up.the ultimate appraisal for our indigenous effort always lies in acceptance of our products for exports.till then..

i dont think there is need for netas to stop the progress.they are still evolving

 

[drkrn]

A SSBN should theoretically be capable of performing the role of an SSGN with the right modifications. As such, an Arihant SSBN should be capable of performing the SSGN role sometime in the future.

But with a relatively weak power output of the nuclear reactor, Arihant is unlikely to reach the speeds of a traditional SSN. Without speed, Arihant will neither be able to give chase to enemy ships nor flee from hostile ASW operations.

That does not imply that it cannot hunt ships. It could most definitely undertake ambushes, especially along predictable routes. But it will be unable to catch up with an enemy ship.

So I'll stick my neck out and say that while it will be an effective SSGN and an SSBN, its role as an SSN is highly doubtful

so you mean to say that 83 mw is too tiny for such a submarine.how much ideally it should be.are we developing 180mw power reactors.

 

[DivineHeretic]

so you mean to say that 83 mw is too tiny for such a submarine.how much ideally it should be.are we developing 180mw power reactors.

I'm not saying its too tiny for the Arihant. For its envisaged role as an SSBN, the power output should be enough. After all, its envisaged role is to patrol the deep sea and preserve India's second strike capability. It is not required to chase or attack ships.

However, for it to act as an SSN, i.e. an attack submarine, the Arihant must be able to give chase to a ship and if needed, flee from a location. This demands speeds in excess of 20 Knots (some SSN actually are reported to have reached speeds in excess of 30 Knots).

For this role, The 83 MW would likely not suffice.

I'm not an expert on Submarines but Russia uses a 190MW reactor on the Akula-II class SSNs. They also use the same reactor in their Boreii class SSBNs btw, but the difference in tonnage is about 6000-7000 tones, the weight of the Arihant itself. And still both manage speeds in excess of 30 knots.

As far as the 180MW reactor is concerned, there has been no word from it for quite sometime, but the process of development is still proceeding. We haven't heard of the project being scrapped or being in trouble.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@Decklander Sir, i said before, You have not gone through his and my post..

As Arihant is not modified for such purpose but design from scratch for such purpose, She is the most small nimble SSGN/BN in the world if i am not mistaken, Her reactors are enough for her size ..

Navy wont give out her true specs ..

A SSBN should theoretically be capable of performing the role of an SSGN with the right modifications. As such, an Arihant SSBN should be capable of performing the SSGN role sometime in the future.

But with a relatively weak power output of the nuclear reactor, Arihant is unlikely to reach the speeds of a traditional SSN. Without speed, Arihant will neither be able to give chase to enemy ships nor flee from hostile ASW operations.

That does not imply that it cannot hunt ships. It could most definitely undertake ambushes, especially along predictable routes. But it will be unable to catch up with an enemy ship.

So I'll stick my neck out and say that while it will be an effective SSGN and an SSBN, its role as an SSN is highly doubtful

 

[Decklander]

@Decklander Sir, i said before, You have not gone through his and my post..

As Arihant is not modified for such purpose but design from scratch for such purpose, She is the most small nimble SSGN/BN in the world if i am not mistaken, Her reactors are enough for her size ..

Navy wont give out her true specs ..

We have thing called "target of opportunity" which can be shot down during a mission while not actually planned. Arihant has a sped which is higher than DE sub and lower than a true hunter killer. But even with the speed it has, she is capable of sinking subs and ships if properly positioned and will be far more effective than a DE sub while not as effective as a Nuke sub.

Every DE sub has a cone of striking a ship based on the speed of sub and ship called limiting lines of approach (LLAs). A DE sub even if positioned in forward sector of a fleet will fail to attack it if it is not within the LLAs.

 

[DivineHeretic]

@Decklander Sir, i said before, You have not gone through his and my post..

As Arihant is not modified for such purpose but design from scratch for such purpose, She is the most small nimble SSGN/BN in the world if i am not mistaken, Her reactors are enough for her size ..

Navy wont give out her true specs ..

True submerged speeds are classified for all submarines of the world, so it would be very speculative to term it the most nimble SSGN/SSBN out there. But yes, She should be nimble considering that she weighs in just over 6000 tons surfaced, which is around 2000 tons below the Akula.

One thing that would effect the speed and maneuverability of the sub would be its launch tubes, especially the open able hatches. Now I haven't seen the hatches on the Arihant, but if it is anything like that on other SSBNs, it will offer significant drag resistance to movement.

All that being said, If she manages to generate speeds around the 28-30 Knots, which is the cruise speed of a CBG and other naval ships, she could take on SSN role.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

INS CHAKRA: A POTENTIAL THREAT TO INDIAN OCEAN STABILITY | Opinion Maker


INS CHAKRA: A POTENTIAL THREAT TO INDIAN OCEAN STABILITY

A Pakistani perspective

 

[TrueSpirit1]

INS CHAKRA: A POTENTIAL THREAT TO INDIAN OCEAN STABILITY | Opinion Maker


INS CHAKRA: A POTENTIAL THREAT TO INDIAN OCEAN STABILITY

A Pakistani perspective

Very low-standard article even for a Pakistani. It has nothing to say except that India Navy has acquired an unprecedented capability (in INS Chakra) & should there be an intent, tables can be turned on neighboring maritime nations. So, everyone should protest.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

as if before induction of ins chakra pakistani navy was breathing down india's throat