India's Nuclear Doctrine

[advaita]

I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say.

Weapons dont fight, Militaries do. Militaries dont fight Countries do. Countries dont fight ideas do. Desirability of attaining Military objectives are absolutely and unequivocably dependent on the these ideas. Our job is only to serve the ideal (challenging the NFU and trying to understand it better is only a small step in this direction). Let the killing, winning, blood and gore be on to the one who has the absolute control the system. This is a dynamic world military objectives are not an independent ideal.

You're saying that you have shed blood?

Yes through my indolence or Akarm. And you may desire special treatment for your sensibilities but that matters squat because we are all (absolutely all) in this together.

Like I said before, it's hard not to imagine schools being burned when it is right next door to a nuclear target. That's why nuclear war should be revolting. It is revolting.

There were drills when I thought it was the real thing and the first thought that within an hour or two, my entire family was going to burn. It's not a comforting thought and there was absolutely zero doubt in my mind that my job was to buy time for NATO nukes to burn the other side.

Guys like Stuart Slade will try to sanitize it and give it unemotional names - counter-industrial, counter-economic, counter-population but in the end, they mean to freeze, starve, or burn people. They have to suspend their revulsion in order to do their work but in the end, it is revulsion.

Yes and uncertainty caused by this MAD kept all of you and the structure above and below you out of the fight. Otherwise even your Canadian values would readily accepted the annihilation of non-west world. The whole bloody world is already sucking up to the only people who ever used it. Because it is the same world that accepts slow poisioning of pagans cultures.

As for Stuart Slade, a guys who uses only the name of Shiva in his ID entirely omitting the Vishnu & Brahma.......He deserves to be treated separately.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Weapons dont fight, Militaries do. Militaries dont fight Countries do. Countries dont fight ideas do. Desirability of attaining Military objectives are absolutely and unequivocably dependent on the these ideas. Our job is only to serve the ideal (challenging the NFU and trying to understand it better is only a small step in this direction). Let the killing, winning, blood and gore be on to the one who has the absolute control the system. This is a dynamic world military objectives are not an independent ideal.



Yes through my indolence or Akarm. And you may desire special treatment for your sensibilities but that matters squat because we are all (absolutely all) in this together.



Yes and uncertainty caused by this MAD kept all of you and the structure above and below you out of the fight. Otherwise even your Canadian values would readily accepted the annihilation of non-west world. The whole bloody world is already sucking up to the only people who ever used it. Because it is the same world that accepts slow poisioning of pagans cultures.

As for Stuart Slade, a guys who uses only the name of Shiva in his ID entirely omitting the Vishnu & Brahma.......He deserves to be treated separately.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

 

[advaita]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

Too fast for you.

I know...

try catching up

 

[Antimony]

Why would anyone risk getting his daughter/son killed if that person is only thinking of military results (that would amount just brownie points). Military is there only to do what it is told to do and to suggest ways about just how best to do it. It never decided policies in mature countries that know how to take defeat and aspire for wins and in between these two to live.

Advaita,

That is pretty much what OOE is saying. The people controlling the nuclear arsenal have to be family men (or women) as only then will they realize how revolting the whole concept of nuclear war is. Hopefully this will make them devise policy, procedures and doctrine to avoid a nuclear exchange in the first place.

 

[Antimony]

As for Stuart Slade, a guys who uses only the name of Shiva in his ID entirely omitting the Vishnu & Brahma.......He deserves to be treated separately.

And yet, his essay talks about restraint gained through an understanding of the damage N-bombs do.

I think Vishnu would have been a better name for him

 

[ahmedsid]

Keep It Cool Folks, I sense tension in the air We are all here for a Good Debate, nothing more! Keep it Sane, and don't get too Personal

 

[advaita]

Advaita,

That is pretty much what OOE is saying. The people controlling the nuclear arsenal have to be family men (or women) as only then will they realize how revolting the whole concept of nuclear war is. Hopefully this will make them devise policy, procedures and doctrine to avoid a nuclear exchange in the first place.

Sir I do under the cut and thrust. I have been talking with him for well over two months.

He wants to avoid it. I know it cannot be avoided (not by man alone). It would rather be a better idea to understand the environment and work accordingly. And till the time we are safe just brace for the impact.

Remember Pratyaksa ko praman kya.

Dont worry Ahmedsid we will manage it.

 

[advaita]

And yet, his essay talks about restraint gained through an understanding of the damage N-bombs do.

I think Vishnu would have been a better name for him

We are all entitled to our views.

As I see it Stuart is just another inequation.

At least up until now.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

He wants to avoid it. I know it cannot be avoided (not by man alone). It would rather be a better idea to understand the environment and work accordingly. And till the time we are safe just brace for the impact.

I have absolutely zero clue from where you're coming from. You effect the enivronment that you are in. Those outside of your environment you let go to someone else. In other words, I let those who can do their jobs better than I could do their jobs to do their jobs.

To effect the nuclear battlefield, I would have to be a nuclear weapons officer, which I am not, or be a nuclear weapons targeteer to which again I am not. The national command authority means exactly that, the national command authority and I have absolutely zero idea on how you think I could effect that chain of command which is not even in my direct chain.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Keep It Cool Folks, I sense tension in the air We are all here for a Good Debate, nothing more! Keep it Sane, and don't get too Personal

My whiskey tango foxtrot is more in confusion than frustration. Maybe if I took a few shots of whisky than it might start to make sense.

 

[Antimony]

Sir I do under the cut and thrust. I have been talking with him for well over two months.

He wants to avoid it. I know it cannot be avoided (not by man alone). It would rather be a better idea to understand the environment and work accordingly. And till the time we are safe just brace for the impact.

Remember Pratyaksa ko praman kya.

Avoid what, a nuclear exchange? (confused)

They came pretty close to it while they were bitching at each other during the Cold War, somehow they avoided it. I don't think we have that scenario. Our greatest adversary is being chewed up internally. Our (unfriendly) neighbour up north are inherently practical (more than we are) and do not want to throw away everything to enjoy the company of 72 virgins. Given a choice I believe they would sell us cheap toys rather than give us a nuclear winter.

That does not mean we should not keep ourselves strong. Indeed, we should strengthen our conventional forces continuously, but also try to avoid a nuclear escalation. That thought gave rise to the Cold Start doctrine.

I see no problem in increasing our nuclear arsenal, but we do not need to brag about it either.

 

[Antimony]

My whiskey tango foxtrot is more in confusion than frustration. Maybe if I took a few shots of whisky than it might start to make sense.

Ditch the single malt and change over to a blend, on the rocks
I guarantee success

Now that was a cheap shot, wasn't it (especially from a teetotaller):113:

 

[advaita]

I have absolutely zero clue from where you're coming from. You effect the enivronment that you are in. Those outside of your environment you let go to someone else. In other words, I let those who can do their jobs better than I could do their jobs to do their jobs.

Are we talking about an environment or many test tubes.

Let everybody do what they feel is necessary and let the outcome belong to .......

To effect the nuclear battlefield, I would have to be a nuclear weapons officer, which I am not, or be a nuclear weapons targeteer to which again I am not. The national command authority means exactly that, the national command authority and I have absolutely zero idea on how you think I could effect that chain of command which is not even in my direct chain.

If things are so disparate and disjoint then what is the point of your throwing Stuart at others forum members. They dont carry any command either. Doesnt you effort fail your logic.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Are we talking about an environment or many test tubes.

Let everybody do what they feel is necessary and let the outcome belong to .......

What?

If things are so disparate and disjoint then what is the point of your throwing Stuart at others forum members. They dont carry any command either. Doesnt you effort fail your logic.

What?

I presented Stuart to give you some idea about your country's nuclear decision policies. I am certainly not an Indian decision maker nor in any position to influence any Indian policy.

 

[Soham]

Advaita,
I don't know if I'm too sleepy, but I don;t get your point. Avoid what ?

 

[advaita]

Avoid what, a nuclear exchange? (confused)
They came pretty close to it while they were bitching at each other during the Cold War, somehow they avoided it.

Everybody avoided it because everybody wanted to avoid it.
The need to live was greater then the will to kill the other.
This is how they struck balance. This is the only way balance can be struck again.
Keep changing the variables.

I don't think we have that scenario. Our greatest adversary is being chewed up internally. Our (unfriendly) neighbour up north are inherently practical (more than we are) and do not want to throw away everything to enjoy the company of 72 virgins. Given a choice I believe they would sell us cheap toys rather than give us a nuclear winter.

If they are so pragmatic then why did they let the situation get to such a place with Warsaw guys... The equation is not balanced...

And look at there inherent practicality they kill off there own people under Mao, Get into a fight with Vietnam under Deng with results for all to see, Carry a Gini Index approaching Uganda under Jiang and Hu we will only understand in the hindsight, though I think i can guess what to expect.

Both of you are throwing your precious wiskey at monkeys when giving the Chinese so much credit.

That does not mean we should not keep ourselves strong. Indeed, we should strengthen our conventional forces continuously, but also try to avoid a nuclear escalation. That thought gave rise to the Cold Start doctrine.

I see no problem in increasing our nuclear arsenal, but we do not need to brag about it either.

Ditto.

 

[advaita]

Advaita,
I don't know if I'm too sleepy, but I don;t get your point. Avoid what ?

Esclation (In history, in present and in future)

I am saying it is inevitable. To avoid esclation we will have to change the whole universe. It would be better to let things esclate so everybody is forced to take a stake in maintaining the balance. This is what happened in history is already happening and throwing Stuart at forummembers is just leaning against the windmill. Will get you zilch.

 

[Antimony]

If they are so pragmatic then why did they let the situation get to such a place with Warsaw guys... The equation is not balanced...

I am sure Brig. Ray would consent to educating both of us. This is his observation and he has studied the Chinese much more intensively that I have. But in my personal dealings with them I have found them to be extremely pragmatic.

And look at there inherent practicality they kill off there own people under Mao, Get into a fight with Vietnam under Deng with results for all to see, Carry a Gini Index approaching Uganda under Jiang and Hu we will only understand in the hindsight, though I think i can guess what to expect.

Can you elaborate? By the way, the fight with vietnam was militarily more successful (capture of three provicial capitals vs. capture of some rocks) than their "victory" in '62. The difference is that Vietnam did not play the victim

 

[Antimony]

Esclation (In history, in present and in future)

I am saying it is inevitable. To avoid esclation we will have to change the whole universe. It would be better to let things esclate so everybody is forced to take a stake in maintaining the balance. This is what happened in history is already happening and throwing Stuart at forummembers is just leaning against the windmill. Will get you zilch.

You are talking like Brigadier Amanullah now

 

[advaita]

I am sure Brig. Ray would consent to educating both of us. This is his observation and he has studied the Chinese much more intensively that I have. But in my personal dealings with them I have found them to be extremely pragmatic.

At an individual level even your executioner will not be cussing you. Societys, Groups of people, Countries become an all together new organism. Hindus and Muslims never hurt each other still they keep fighting in every riot.

Can you elaborate? By the way, the fight with vietnam was militarily more successful (capture of three provicial capitals vs. capture of some rocks) than their "victory" in '62. The difference is that Vietnam did not play the victim

(1)About the other points you will have to look deeper into the distribution of chinese wealth and ownership all through the history. (my focus remains here)

(2) About Vietnam, they just created a hero out of Vietnam and a s...h... out of themselves. (this is only my secondary interest)