Indian Special Forces

rkhanna

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Would love to see them walk in the same gear and pull off what our SF accomplished in Burma.
What was so hard about what we did in Burma? We suprised an opfor encampment and then burnt it to the ground. Did no SSE, didn't render a HVT for further interrogation. It was a simple search and destroy mission that any commando unit should be able to do ?

PS the South Koreans have taken part in most conflict the Americans have, including Vietnam and the GWOT (enduring freedom).
 

Bhadra

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Sorry this the logic that conventional commanders have used for eons for decades. Doesn't pass muster. Why do SOF officers in other countries manage to go higher ? Thye have command staff colleges to get them to mission shift.

SOF operators and officers on avg have a higher IQ than normal military.(there is a wide ranging of social / capability studies to support that).

They have a far greater entrepreneural spirit to problem solve and overcome. And SF officer would be a massive credit to the Larger military.

A great part of what you have articulated is the very reason why the larger army is stuck in the 1980s.
Your reasoning appears to be a justification for College Professors to be appointed as Brigadiers and Generals. This high IQ high exposure logic is bunkum and sounds like that one examination logic of civil Services or higher in merit logic that used to be advanced earlier by mud corps officers.

Our SF officers is the average Sainik School /NDA dude who can not even pass good examination and I am sure that IQ Screening is not carried out at intake level. It is only his upbringing and training during and after training that makes an officer a better dude, and that is true of any regimental officer of the Indian Army whether from ASC or Infantry.

There is nothing called Class A and class B officers in the Indian Army. If an SF officer is considered fit to command a brigade without adequate education, training, and exposure, I would place an ASC officer ahead of him who has more of that experience and exposure..

An SF is credited with all the good things he might have done, for his honours and awards and he stands ahead of all but when it comes to competitive environment of selection process, well I do not consider him fit enough to command an Assam Rifles battalion.

That is the truth of environment and organisational constraints because the Indian Army is not an SF battalion. It is an all arms application organisation. All those who rise from SF environment rise on the merits of their training, education and exposure to like all others and not merely for their SF.
 

rkhanna

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Your reasoning appears to be a justification for College Professors to be appointed as Brigadiers and Generals. This high IQ high exposure logic is bunkum and sounds like that one examination logic of civil Services or higher in merit logic that used to be advanced earlier by mud corps officers.

Our SF officers is the average Sainik School /NDA dude who can not even pass good examination and I am sure that IQ Screening is not carried out at intake level. It is only his upbringing and training during and after training that makes an officer a better dude, and that is true of any regimental officer of the Indian Army whether from ASC or Infantry.

There is nothing called Class A and class B officers in the Indian Army. If an SF officer is considered fit to command a brigade without adequate education, training, and exposure, I would place an ASC officer ahead of him who has more of that experience and exposure..

An SF is credited with all the good things he might have done, for his honours and awards and he stands ahead of all but when it comes to competitive environment of selection process, well I do not consider him fit enough to command an Assam Rifles battalion.

That is the truth of environment and organisational constraints because the Indian Army is not an SF battalion. It is an all arms application organisation. All those who rise from SF environment rise on the merits of their training, education and exposure to like all others and not merely for their SF.
Jai ho
 

rkhanna

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I have found what’s perhaps the only official confirmation of the existence of Special Frontier Force.

Hmm SFF is not a state secret. They won battle honors officially in 71, They were even mentioned in dispatches during kargil if I am not wrong. They used to be part of Army ORBAT before they were put under cabinet secretariat.
 

ALBY

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Some years back there was a doordarshan pgm on SFF.So its not a secret.But SG is not acknowledged in public.
 

Immanuel

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What was so hard about what we did in Burma? We suprised an opfor encampment and then burnt it to the ground. Did no SSE, didn't render a HVT for further interrogation. It was a simple search and destroy mission that any commando unit should be able to do ?

PS the South Koreans have taken part in most conflict the Americans have, including Vietnam and the GWOT (enduring freedom).
Trekking over 50 km in 24 hrs, through mine infested rough terrain jungles, where the light available on the forest floor is terrible so much so that NVDs are useless, the smallest noises can be heard tens of meters away. GPS signals aren't consistent, navigation entirely by compass. I'd like to see these SOKO SF units or any other unit with Gucci gear do the same without any errors. No helos for ingress, some drone footage but again camps were in such dense jungle that real time intel was sketchy, also they were actually disguised as Infantry. Many of the steep inclines had to be trekked on all fours while carrying a full battle load, stretchers, RPGs, etc.

Please, it's one thing to say that it's a 'textbook 'SF op but entirely another when it comes to execution. They executed 100/100.

Give respect and don't BS.
 

Bhadra

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Haha

Bro which branch of Indian Army's Major rank officer gives direct advice to GOC about planning an operation and the GOC listens?

Is it ASC or Infantry? (wink wink)

Jai Ho too!!
GOC listen to his Dhobi too and some times his barber too... they do advise him in private... so does a Havildar of I&FS section.

You have pitched yourself two steps down... GOC-in_C command listens to a major of SF... and so does he listens to an LMG det Cdr in fields on his LMG fixed-line... I have witnessed many GOC-in C taking time with GE of a station, usually a Major Saheb and take his suggestions and recommendations on station issues.

Does that mean that Dhobi or Nais are better than a Div Commanders.... your arguments are childish. Better enroll as a Nayi..... you must have heard the story of that Dhobhi who got Sita banished to the jungles,,,,

From your arguments, I can make out you have no idea about the role played by a Compo Platoon of ASC commanded by a Leuitinent or a Captain of ASC on operational maintenance of brigade-size force in hard operational areas of places like Ladakh or Sikkim or Arunanchal or Nagaland/ Manipur.

If I place you as a Compo Platoon Commander or a forward airdrop receiving officer in DBO or at Landa in West Kameng for two years tenure you will be washed of all that SF ego for life and shall become " Alak Niranjan" in a month..

Please do not show such naivety on DFI pages..
 
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another_armchair

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Trekking over 50 km in 24 hrs, through mine infested rough terrain jungles, where the light available on the forest floor is terrible so much so that NVDs are useless, the smallest noises can be heard tens of meters away. GPS signals aren't consistent, navigation entirely by compass. I'd like to see these SOKO SF units or any other unit with Gucci gear do the same without any errors. No helos for ingress, some drone footage but again camps were in such dense jungle that real time intel was sketchy, also they were actually disguised as Infantry. Many of the steep inclines had to be trekked on all fours while carrying a full battle load, stretchers, RPGs, etc.

Please, it's one thing to say that it's a 'textbook 'SF op but entirely another when it comes to execution. They executed 100/100.

Give respect and don't BS.
Offered without comments -

South Korea is looking forward to training its soldiers on jungle warfare and counterinsurgency techniques in India. It is likely to send its troops to Indian Army’s elite Counter Insurgency & Jungle Warfare (CIJW) School in the north-eastern state Mizoram.

Dated, but some criticism on equipment from their very own -

 
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AZTEC

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About the South Korea debate, I would like to add a few points that aren’t directly related to SF but are relevant for context.

South Korea is a country whose demography is going to collapse under the weight of their own racism; Koreans, inspite of being rich and educated, hardly tolerate people from other ‘races’ as neighbours and so immigration into South Korea is not easy. Therefore, their population has become old. This, in turn, will take a serious toll on their economic prospects and will hurtle them towards irrelevance. (If any K-pop fans are reading this, I am sorry but this is the bitter truth)

So it really doesn’t matter whether SoKo SF receives gucci gear or not. It’s really of no consequence. It’s not worth a debate.

(For naysayers, I am not justifying the poor Indian SF loadout)
 
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rkhanna

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Trekking over 50 km in 24 hrs, through mine infested rough terrain jungles, where the light available on the forest floor is terrible so much so that NVDs are useless, the smallest noises can be heard tens of meters away. GPS signals aren't consistent, navigation entirely by compass. I'd like to see these SOKO SF units or any other unit with Gucci gear do the same without any errors. No helos for ingress, some drone footage but again camps were in such dense jungle that real time intel was sketchy, also they were actually disguised as Infantry. Many of the steep inclines had to be trekked on all fours while carrying a full battle load, stretchers, RPGs, etc.

Please, it's one thing to say that it's a 'textbook 'SF op but entirely another when it comes to execution. They executed 100/100.

Give respect and don't BS.
Like I said a normal commando operation. When did I give disrespect? Tell me a commando unit in a major world military that can't do it ?

And execution at 100/100 is their JOB.

Doing a 100/100 op is their mission requirement.
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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GOC listen to his Dhobi too and some times his barber too... they do advise him in private... so does a Havildar of I&FS section.

You have pitched yourself two steps down... GOC-in_C command listens to a major of SF... and so does he listens to an LMG det Cdr in fields on his LMG fixed-line... I have witnessed many GOC-in C taking time with GE of a station, usually a Major Saheb and take his suggestions and recommendations on station issues.

Does that mean that Dhobi or Nais are better than a Div Commanders.... your arguments are childish. Better enroll as a Nayi..... you must have heard the story of that Dhobhi who got Sita banished to the jungles,,,,

From your arguments, I can make out you have no idea about the role played by a Compo Platoon of ASC commanded by a Leuitinent or a Captain of ASC on operational maintenance of brigade-size force in hard operational areas of places like Ladakh or Sikkim or Arunanchal or Nagaland/ Manipur.

If I place you as a Compo Platoon Commander or a forward airdrop receiving officer in DBO or at Landa in West Kameng for two years tenure you will be washed of all that SF ego for life and shall become " Alak Niranjan" in a month..

Please do not show such naivety on DFI pages..
Oh i didnt know we were talking about haircuts by barber and underwear washing by dhoobi.

I thought we are talking about how non qualified a Para SF officer is to lead a Brigade or a Div as suggested by you.

And going by your primitive logic of things may i know how well did your ASC or Infantry battalions perform in IPKF?


Or Maybe the Maldives ops..or why dont you share on this thread how SF units are the only hope in some ops if you have seen some?

You compare a SF unit to a Infantry unit and show your bias and knowledge of things.

And like i said..there is no Inf bat whose Major will ever advice a GOC about OPS..not dhoobi ghaat..Freaking OPS.
 

Immanuel

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Like I said a normal commando operation. When did I give disrespect? Tell me a commando unit in a major world military that can't do it ?

And execution at 100/100 is their JOB.

Doing a 100/100 op is their mission requirement.
Your first words

What was so hard about what we did in Burma?

Just because what appears to be text book Commando OP, doesn't make it easy. I was merely stating that nothing about this op was easy from the get-go. I can assure you 90% of the world's SF would fail in such an op let alone do it 100/100, text book op as it may appear. I see disrespect when you make it sound like it was a cake walk, it cheapens the effort put in. Also, while a text book 100/100 execution is always welcome, sadly reality of war doesn't grant such luck always. Even if a mission is accomplished, we must always respect that mere fact that men of valor went out there into the wilderness while we were sitting on our asses.

'Mission Accomplished' is the mission requirement, 100/100 execution can only happen when the Mission is accomplished and men are back without any injuries, casualties, having successfully navigated all the surprises that come along the way for each Op. 'Mission Accomplished' in almost all war time scenarios have lead to sacrifices in blood.
 

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