Indian Special Forces (archived)

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COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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@rkhanna @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR any idea about 1st Archers or Para Gurkhas? Heard that Apart from SG, is also a SOF and not just an airborne unit like other Vikas units.Btw they retains the Cdo tab and not SF tab.
Bro @rkhanna has the most knowledge about them in this forum.

All i know is that after Capt Bana Singh Ji captured Bana post there were successive attempts by SSG to recapture it but all of it was foiled by SFF/SG.

4 para was also deployed in that period but SFF made sure we kept Siachen along with variours other units like Kumaon and JAKLI.
 

ALBY

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Bro @rkhanna has the most knowledge about them in this forum.

All i know is that after Capt Bana Singh Ji captured Bana post there were successive attempts by SSG to recapture it but all of it was foiled by SFF/SG.

4 para was also deployed in that period but SFF made sure we kept Siachen along with variours other units like Kumaon and JAKLI.
Asked because Harsh bhardhan was saying in Quora that Para Gurkhas are another SoF unit just like SG and not like other SFF units.When i digged further i saw here in this forum also some mentions about the unit was there between u, Harshbardhan and red devil but not anything beyond some vague mentions.
 

rkhanna

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Asked because Harsh bhardhan was saying in Quora that Para Gurkhas are another SoF unit just like SG and not like other SFF units.When i digged further i saw here in this forum also some mentions about the unit was there between u, Harshbardhan and red devil but not anything beyond some vague mentions.
My two paisa resulting from 1+1=3

Leaving aside genesis of the Units lets understand their place in the order of things.

What is a commando unit? in layman nomenclature - A light infantry unit specializing in tasks that are doing without logistic and combined arms support. - so (IMO) the Paras are also a 'commando' unit. Commando units usually operate in company+ size and are special operations capable due to the nature and rigour of their training. Commando units primary tasking is the conventional battlefield to pursue theater level objectives.

Special operations - are commando units operating operating in Small Units and their mission profile is strategic in Nature. High Value objective persecution meaning extremely high risk. Special Operations excel in assymetrical warfare to pursue national security objectives.

Do to manpower/training/equipment there is alot of overlap and Hybridness forms in. the 75th Ranger Regiment, the Royal Marine Commandos all started out as Commando units now dwell into Special Operations.

Coming back to India. the Para's are trained to fight (like anywhere else) while they are surrounded. i.e behind enemy lines. They are damn good soldiers. They are way more than infantry that jump out of planes. BUT they are still oriented to a conventional battlefield and commando operations within that sphere. Hence they are in a sense jack of all trades with respect to terrain. (plains, desert, mountains) - experts at none.

The SFF being solely oriented to the Mountains and the plateaus of tibet - take their airborne capability to high altitude and have perfected their art. Jumping on to mountain peaks, valleys, a high altitude plateau requires far more specialized training. not to say the Para's couldnt. but the SFF by orientation are better geared.

When, in the last few years, the objective of setting up a new Mountain Corp was established it was found that the Para's would need to do a hard pivot in training towards the mountains. Towards that end it was deemed that having that capability built out from within the SFF would be more efficient. Thus was born the 'Para Gurkha' or Archer Battalions. The Archers are Indian national manned (or nepali gurkha as pervalent in the Indian Army). The Vikas Battalions will continue to be mixed (dont forget that the military age population size of Tibetians in India is dwindling and even the motivation to join the Indian Army is lower than in the past).

How would the 2 different units - Vikas and Archer - share the battlespace verses china?

(now this is my an educated guess from conversations but here goes)

1. Vikas - primary role in a full blown war will be deep inside the tibetian plateau. Their jobs will include

- establishing contact with the dormant Tibetian resistance and kick starting an insurgency to hit the PLA supply chains, airbases, political/law enforcement infrastructre. (i.e FID) - lot of things in their favour - familia ties, language, etc
- they will do a lot of fighting inside urban/population centers
- Seek and destroy the poorly protected belly of the beast (again logistics, infrastructure etc)
- High Value target intradiction
- I personally see the SG deployed more with Vikas, than archer for Direct Action raids.
- They will see very very highly casualty rates and they know it
- Vikas job is to sow discord and cost the PRC treasure
- They will operate far from ressuply and air cover

2. Archer - the Archers will be spread out with other Indian SF units to hit high value military targets.
- C&C
- SAM sites
- Air Bases
- Convoy Ambushes
- Retaking of peaks, positions
- Special Recon, Intelligence Gathering for MI
- They will play the role US Army Rangers play within SOCOM with respect to other SF units in conventional war
- As the territory is large Archers will fight side by side with Army SF, Battalion Ghatak Units to pursue various Tactical or Theater Objectives.
- Their missions will be planned with CAS in mind provided we can gain air superiority over those pockets.
- Archers job will be to blunt the offensive capability of the PLA Infantry and rocket forces

3. Defensive line will be manned by Gurkhas, Dogras, Ladhak Scout type units. Those mountains are their play ground they fucking own them. These are the same units that will pivot to take ground. But i forsee that with any war with china we will play a war of attrition. We have no interest (or capability) to take ground in China and hold it.

4. Special Forces Tabs are only for Indian Army Para Special Forces. Its a unit tab not a skill designation.

--> Take what i have said above with a pinch of salt. I have done alot of filling in the blanks with conversations with Family members, family friends etc.


--> Last word - in the mountains and specially concerning the topic of tibet - fear the Khampa
 
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rkhanna

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I wouldn’t include delta/CAG on this list. Whilst most are former green berets and rangers so have that background if you read about their actual operational experience in the last 20 years most of it is direct action or high speed raids. Yes they now ‘offset’ (get dropped off a few kms from the target) but almost every single op you can find of theirs is helo in, hit and helo out. Similar story with SEALS and DEVGRU, Green berets and MARSOC are a different story.
Disagree with you on Delta. 99% of all Delta are Army SF or Rangers. more than 80% of them are both.

From the Get go - selection to training Delta only marches - comes from their Rangers heritage. Their entire selection program (modeled on the SAS) - their 'long walk' seems dumb and easy on paper but is pure torture.

with regards to seals (or any naval SOF units) sure they dont train for land operations to such a degree as delta/etc but do not challenge them to an endurance test in the water.

Remember the Navy SOF have a different heritage. Army SOF Come from infantry - they walk till their feet come off. There is a reason why Army SOF have a distinctive advantage in a sustained firefight. Their basic infantry drills are more deep seated in their muscle memory.

(a good book for reference is :Relentless Strike: The Secret History of Joint Special Operations By Sean Naylor - The book is an 'autobiography of JSOC)


Whats the practical use of the bipoods in Tavors equipped with those Mars sights😑
Most likely to give a stablize the Shooting Platform to increase the effective range of the shooter. Big boon in the mountains specially if fighting uphill.

Also but this is my bias - i believe the bipods help with the balancing of the tavor which is butt heavy.


On the Topic of Special Group. like delta their setup is within the SFF but their operating collaboration ends there. They share some infrastructure thats all.

SG is (atleaset supposed to be) divided into 4 squadrons (like the SAS) each squadron made up of 3-4 Troups. There is heavy specialization in SG - communications, intelligence gathering, Psyc Warfare, etc

AFAIK apart from training cadre SG operators are rotated in/out - farmed out to RAW / MI units, Operate in pairs, singles as well as small teams.
 

apoorv465

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Asked because Harsh bhardhan was saying in Quora that Para Gurkhas are another SoF unit just like SG and not like other SFF units.When i digged further i saw here in this forum also some mentions about the unit was there between u, Harshbardhan and red devil but not anything beyond some vague mentions.
I think he is talking about Archer battalion of SFF which contains 1 Archer (cdo) also known as Para Gurkhas

 

Bhadra

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Come down from phantasies to mother earth...

Any employment of SF in Eastern Ladakh so far ???

Do not mention SFF...
 

COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

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Amazed you ask this question. Indian Army doesn't have OPSEC? That we should know on this forum?

Hell even if any retired soldiers know someone should be hung in Army HQ.
Yes

And for reference people can see the Photos from dhoti visits

And

Also a video of Para drop released by IA.

All of these are Para deployment.

Besides that we have/had 9 deployed in Siachen.
 
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