Indian Railways News

[pmaitra]

Look we can put ten WAG 9'S in a series and say we have the most powerful locomotive in the world rated at 61250hp, that is simply stupidity.

We are not putting ten WAG-9s. We are only putting two WAG-9s to match two units of the Alstom locomotives. Thereafter, on comparison, we see that we are already manufacturing more powerful locomotives.

Basically I am disagreeing with your statement in red below:

We build nothing comparable to these locos, what we have is vastly inferior both in terms of fuel efficiency and pulling power!
This is a technological upgrade similar to the one where the IR moved from steam to diesel and electric locos.

As far as the ALSTOMS are concerned you might say they are two units but as far as the IR is concerned they are one unit as they are designed, built , marketed and sold in a complete tractive unit of 12000 hp in one articulated body!
Either of the ALSTOMS as one tractive unit is far more powerful than one WAP7 or WAP 9.

Nope. It is not one body. It is two bodies. Each body is supported by two bogies. Please see spoiler below:

Spoiler: Exhibit A: Alstom 2ES5 (two units)

Spoiler: Exhibit B: CLW WAG-9 (two units)

Exhibit B > Exhibit A

Edited to add that with the CLW WAG-9, we have the flexibility of using one unit when excessive power is not required.

 

[bengalraider]

@pmaitra
But then I've never seen a 2ES5 operating as a single unit. I believe it's designed from the ground up to work as a set of two( your point) working homogeneously as a single unit.coupling two engines together is not homogeneous and wastes more energy.
Also what about starting tractive effort. That can't be increased by putting multiple engines in series .
We are looking at increasing the axle load on a wagon from 22.5 tonnes to 32.5 tonnes while simultaneously also increasing the length of an average goods train rake from 700mtr to 1500mtr for the WFC (at least). These massive cargo trains will require an enormous amount of tractive effort to get rolling.

 

[bengalraider]

Anyhoo I was wrong in selection of the locomotive type. It seems we shall be getting a custom version of the six axle co co version of the alstom prima 2 locomotive.

The Prima locomotive for Indian Railways will be 9,000 kW at the wheel rim and will run at a speed up to 120 km/h. This contract positions Alstom as the number one on heavy-haul electric locomotives segment with now over 1,200 double locomotives ordered for the last decade.

http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/...uble-electric-locomotives-to-indian-railways/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_(locomotive)

 

[bengalraider]

It's a workhorse for sure!
Anyhoo I believe this deal is much like that for the initial batch of ALCOs wherein the OEM builds the factory & the first tranche. We shall build many more of these at home once the technology has been completely absorbed into the workshops.

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra
But then I've never seen a 2ES5 operating as a single unit. I believe it's designed from the ground up to work as a set of two( your point) working homogeneously as a single unit.coupling two engines together is not homogeneous and wastes more energy.
Also what about starting tractive effort. That can't be increased by putting multiple engines in series .
We are looking at increasing the axle load on a wagon from 22.5 tonnes to 32.5 tonnes while simultaneously also increasing the length of an average goods train rake from 700mtr to 1500mtr for the WFC (at least). These massive cargo trains will require an enormous amount of tractive effort to get rolling.

The 2ES5 locomotive is designed as two individual locomotives joined together. That is why it is two unit locomotive, while the WAG-9 is a single unit locomotive.

The 2ES5 is a twin-unit 25kV AC electric loco designed for heavy freight work, and follows the EP20 passenger locomotive now being tested by Russian Railways.

Source: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ew/prototype-2es5-freight-loco-completed.html

Can one unit of 2ES5 work as a single unit? I don't know. However, it appears that individual units can be added to increase the power of the entire multi-unit locomotive. So, an extra power unit can be added in the middle of the two units to have a three unit locomotive. The spoiler below shows two such three unit locomotives coupled to each other.

Spoiler: 2ES5K

Source: http://www.tmholding.ru/journal_files/Transmashholding03_14_en.pdf

My point is, when comparing 2ES5 with WAG-9, we are essentially comparing two Alstom locomotives with one CLW locomotive. When two CLW locomotives are coupled together, they also work homogeneously. That is how they are designed. You don't need a loco pilot on both locomotives. You only need one loco pilot and only one control cab. The other three control cabs remain vacant.


Our current CLW WAG-9 and WAP-7 are very much state of the art locomotives and comparable to European locomotives. The only power units that are better are the ones used in ICE, TGV, Talgo, etc..

 

[bengalraider]

@pmaitra - THE 2ES5 is manufactured in both 2 section types and 3 section types by ALSTOM for the Russian Railways, it's a modular design and 2 or 3 modules can be added as required.

You are correct when we speak of horsepower alone , but as i pointed out earlier in terms of starting tractive effort the ALSTOMs seem to steal the show with 833kN of starting traction compared to the WAG 9's 460kN.
That said i did a quick study of all 10,000hp+ locos working today almost all seem to use the same double bo-bo design with two sets of twin axle units coupled together using an articulated arrangement, the WAG-9 also fits in with the rest of the 6000 Hp crowd that uses a co-co arrangement with two sets of three axles each.

 

[bengalraider]

Also before i forget the locos we are getting are customized non articulated six axle co-co versions of the Prima 2, i.e they will be one unit not double units! It seems our entire debate here has been quite meaningless it seems

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra - THE 2ES5 is manufactured in both 2 section types and 3 section types by ALSTOM for the Russian Railways, it's a modular design and 2 or 3 modules can be added as required.

You are correct when we speak of horsepower alone , but as i pointed out earlier in terms of starting tractive effort the ALSTOMs seem to steal the show with 833kN of starting traction compared to the WAG 9's 460kN.
That said i did a quick study of all 10,000hp+ locos working today almost all seem to use the same double bo-bo design with two sets of twin axle units coupled together using an articulated arrangement, the WAG-9 also fits in with the rest of the 6000 Hp crowd that uses a co-co arrangement with two sets of three axles each.

The sets you are talking about is called the bogie. The bogie can swivel under the body. This means, the unit is articulated. What you are calling articulated is actually two articulated bodies coupled together.

See the example below:

This is a model well wagon. The bogie is turned out. This means, this well wagon is an articulated wagon.

Similarly, see the image of another bogie below:

This is a coach with a bogie that is turned out. This is also an articulated coach.

Also before i forget the locos we are getting are customized non articulated six axle co-co versions of the Prima 2, i.e they will be one unit not double units! It seems our entire debate here has been quite meaningless it seems

They will still be articulated. You cannot have non-articulated vehicles of that length. They won't be able to negotiate curves.

Below is an example of a non-articulated wagon. These wagons have to be very short:

 

[bengalraider]

Anyhoo now it seems we're getting the ones from GE below very very TFTA videos

The GE Evolution series 4

 

[pmaitra]

You are correct when we speak of horsepower alone , but as i pointed out earlier in terms of starting tractive effort the ALSTOMs seem to steal the show with 833kN of starting traction compared to the WAG 9's 460kN.

I think we are going back to the same discussion.

(833 kN) is less than (460 kN x 2 = 920 kN)

I think our existing CLW locomotives are still stealing the show from Alstom.

I understand these Alstom locomotives are new, and we always love new things, but let us compare based on technicality, not novelty.

 

[bengalraider]

I think we are going back to the same discussion.

(833 kN) is less than (460 kN x 2 = 920 kN)

I think our existing CLW locomotives are still stealing the show from Alstom.

I understand these Alstom locomotives are new, and we always love new things, but let us compare based on technicality, not novelty.

I don't believe starting reactive effort can be increased by adding more locos in series. If you have any information to the contrary please enlighten me!

 

[pmaitra]

I don't believe starting reactive effort can be increased by adding more locos in series. If you have any information to the contrary please enlighten me!

(TractiveEffort x Speed) / Factor = HorsePower

Tractive Effort and Horse Power are directly proportional.

Discussion: http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/75858.aspx

 

[cobra commando]

Shri Suresh Prabhu inspected a Model Rake (a passenger carrying train with 24 coaches) with improved interiors, colour scheme, aesthetics and amenity fittings at Safdarjang Station, New Delhi

 

[pmaitra]

Shri Suresh Prabhu inspected a Model Rake (a passenger carrying train with 24 coaches) with improved interiors, colour scheme, aesthetics and amenity fittings at Safdarjang Station, New Delhi

Here are the pictures of this visit. Pardon me for posting from Facebook.

I see some improvements. Fit and finish could be improved. Things will happen over time.

 

[anoop_mig25]

Here are the pictures of this visit. Pardon me for posting from Facebook.

I see some improvements. Fit and finish could be improved. Things will happen over time.

pics are looking good.Are this for sleeper coach or AC 3 tier

making such coach would require money.Would people ready to spend increase in fare ????

 

[pmaitra]

pics are looking good.Are this for sleeper coach or AC 3 tier

making such coach would require money.Would people ready to spend increase in fare ????

Both AC and non-AC. The clear glass is that of AC, while that one with slatted shutter is non-AC.

 

[thethinker]

Unbelievable! Clean and healthy meals on Indian Railways at just Rs 20

http://zeenews.india.com/business/p...on-indian-railways-at-just-rs-20_1840742.html

Last Updated: Sunday, January 3, 2016 - 10:32

New Delhi: Poor quality of food and over charging are big concerns while traveling by train. No more! IRCTC has set up Jan Ahaar Cafeterias at Railways Stations of Indian Railways all over the country for providing Janta meal at less than Rs 20.

The Jan Ahaar Cafeterias of IRCTC will make available Janta Meal, Economy meals and popular regional cuisines on platform at various stations.

Following are the features of Jan Ahaar Cafeterias:

1) The Jan Ahaar Cafeterias is on self-service’ model with 24x7 hours operations.

2)Jan Ahaar Cafeterias’ will sell or service Janta Meal, Economy meals and other popular regional cuisines and most of the items shall be priced below Rs 20

3) Fast service is provided on the pattern of take away joints. These are all air conditioned and located in the paid (ticketed) area.

4) Approved PAD items; variety of ice-creams; and approved hot and cold beverages through AVMs is dispensed.

5) Free filtered /RO drinking water would be available.

6)There will be minimum seating area, may be with 8-12 chairs and maximum area is earmarked for standing facility.

7)Modular counters for display and computerized billing.

8) Kitchen area can be seen through with glass partition towards modular counters.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

@thethinker
Check out the new coaches on second page of this thread.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/made-in-india.75117/

 

[anoop_mig25]

Unbelievable! Clean and healthy meals on Indian Railways at just Rs 20

http://zeenews.india.com/business/p...on-indian-railways-at-just-rs-20_1840742.html

Last Updated: Sunday, January 3, 2016 - 10:32

New Delhi: Poor quality of food and over charging are big concerns while traveling by train. No more! IRCTC has set up Jan Ahaar Cafeterias at Railways Stations of Indian Railways all over the country for providing Janta meal at less than Rs 20.

The Jan Ahaar Cafeterias of IRCTC will make available Janta Meal, Economy meals and popular regional cuisines on platform at various stations.

Following are the features of Jan Ahaar Cafeterias:

1) The Jan Ahaar Cafeterias is on self-service’ model with 24x7 hours operations.

2)Jan Ahaar Cafeterias’ will sell or service Janta Meal, Economy meals and other popular regional cuisines and most of the items shall be priced below Rs 20

3) Fast service is provided on the pattern of take away joints. These are all air conditioned and located in the paid (ticketed) area.

4) Approved PAD items; variety of ice-creams; and approved hot and cold beverages through AVMs is dispensed.

5) Free filtered /RO drinking water would be available.

6)There will be minimum seating area, may be with 8-12 chairs and maximum area is earmarked for standing facility.

7)Modular counters for display and computerized billing.

8) Kitchen area can be seen through with glass partition towards modular counters.

I really donot belive in jan ahar types models where food is beging served at 20-30 rupees

first point is that target customer of such model are low category Indian people and such people traveling in indian railways rarely eats foods from jan ahar.they usually carry their food prepared from home

second food served from such jan ahar models doesnt taste very good.

I have rarely seen any people buying food from sucj jan ahar centers.

Even outside eateries sell food thali priced between 40 to 60 rs.cant understand why is urctc going for jan adhar model when one such exits already in IR.started by mamta bangeer when she was railway minister and i am sure it must be making hughe loos

 

[pmaitra]

I really donot belive in jan ahar types models where food is beging served at 20-30 rupees

first point is that target customer of such model are low category Indian people and such people traveling in indian railways rarely eats foods from jan ahar.they usually carry their food prepared from home

second food served from such jan ahar models doesnt taste very good.

I have rarely seen any people buying food from sucj jan ahar centers.

Even outside eateries sell food thali priced between 40 to 60 rs.cant understand why is urctc going for jan adhar model when one such exits already in IR.started by mamta bangeer when she was railway minister and i am sure it must be making hughe loos

My experience on one occassion, which was long time back, was that there were too many people to feed from one pantry car. By the time I got my meal, it was pretty late in the night. How is the food now?