Indian nuclear submarines

sayareakd

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new shed suggest we are moving in right direction.ATV S3 will be launched soon, from the looks of it, S3 will need new shed, as new one will house S2, old one will house Chakra.
 

Bheeshma

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Will they announce the launch/commission of these subs. I have a feeling it will be done quietly without any fanfare.
 

Ganesh2691

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INS Arihant will miss December deadline

The INS Arihant, India's first nuclear-powered submarine, will not go for its much-awaited sea trial by December—the deadline set by the Navy.The 80 Mwe nuclear reactor on-board the submarine is yet to be functional more than three years after the submarine was launched in water. The reactor is yet to produce the energy required to propel the 6000-tonne submarine.

The non-functioning of the Arihant nuclear reactor has more to do with the completion of a large number of other systems and components inside the submarine vessel rather than any problem with the nuclear reactor.

"At the earliest, Arihant can go for sea-trial only in 2013," sources in the department of atomic energy told Deccan Herald.

Former Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma had stated that the Arihant will be on sea patrol by December 31, 2012.

Asked to comment on whether the Navy still stood by that deadline, a defence ministry official declined to make any comment on Saturday.

The nuclear submarine, capable of remaining underwater for a month without surfacing, also has a diesel backup for emergency situations in the deep sea.

The hush-hush launch of the 104 mt-long Arihant inside a closely guarded dockyard in Visakhapatnam in 2009 marked the end of a 25-year long journey to developed an indigenous nuclear-powered submarine.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, his wife, Gursharan Kaur, Defence Minister A K Antony and then National Security Adviser M K Narayanan were present at the launch.

Even though there is no official admission, sources said Rs 7,000 crores had been spent on Arihant . Only the US, UK, Russia, France and China operate nuclear submarines.

"Everything was made in India up to the last nuts and bolts. Also the industry was not well developed when we started. We faced a lot of problems on materials," said a nuclear scientist who was closely associated with reactor development.

But when the submarine was launched in water in July 2009, many systems and components were not in place. Over the last two years, the project management team was putting the instruments in place. The circular design of the submarine's interior panel made the job more complicated for the team.

"More than 150 systems have to work simultaneously for the submarine to operate," the sources said.

When inducted, the INS Arihant will complete India's nuclear triad giving New Delhi second strike capability from the land, air and sea in case of a nuclear attack. At the moment, the N-submarine has 125 K-15 short range ballistic missiles with a one-tonne nuclear warhead, which can hit the target at a distance of 700 km. Eventually they will be replaced by 3500 km range submarine launched ballistic missiles, which are currently under development.

Construction has also begun for the second nuclear-submarine and its nuclear reactor as numerous systems and components are being readied. But the final assembly for the reactor as well as the vessel is yet to start.

INS Arihant will miss December deadline | idrw.org
 

sayareakd

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it is our first nuke submarine, just like making first million $ takes time and rest are fast, same way first nuke will take more time, but others will come fast, very fast.
 

natarajan

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what about 2nd and third of arihant class ,any news .We are really slow like snail
 

uss

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sayareakd

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Don't it require to be tested from a real Submarine before it goes in to the production ?
Good question, production started in 2011, so about year or more has already pass and this is kind of old news,

It was tested on Pontoon launcher, number of times.



you need to understand that we have to give advance warning about missile test, that does not mean that we cannot test two missile at the same time :rolleyes:
That info is for Pakistan, so that they wont think that India is going to attack with missile. So sometimes we play smart and test more then one missile at the same time. :taunt1:

But who knows we could have tested this missile from nuke sub, we do have another sub called S1. Lets keep it as state secret and when the time come our enemies will get shock of their life.:taunt:
 
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sayareakd

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BTW in one year if the production rate is about 10 missile, we have already completed enough for ATV-1, rest will be training missiles.
 

Armand2REP

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Don't it require to be tested from a real Submarine before it goes in to the production ? Can Guru's plz advice on it.
Yes, it requires significant testing from the platform including pop-up tests and actual launches before it can enter full rate production. China has been unable to complete the last round of testing for their missile certification. The one reporting this is either misinformed, an idiot or a little of both.
 
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sayareakd

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Britain with years of experience is facing difficulty and this is our first sub, therefore it is taking time.

Slow, leaky, rusty: Britain's £10bn submarine beset by design flaws

The Royal Navy's new multibillion pound hunter-killer submarine, HMS Astute, has been beset by design and construction flaws that have raised doubts about its performance and potential safety.

The Guardian can reveal that Astute, the first of seven new submarines costing £9.75bn, has been unable to reach its intended top speed.
At the moment, the boat, heralded as the most sophisticated submarine ever built for the navy, cannot sprint to emergencies or away from an attack – an essential requirement for a hunter-killer boat.

It would also be incapable of keeping pace with the Royal Navy's new aircraft carriers, which will be able to travel at more than 30 knots and need the submarines to protect them. One source told the Guardian the boat had a "V8 engine with a Morris Minor gearbox".

Other problems that have affected the boat in recent months include:

"¢ Flooding during a routine dive that led to Astute performing an emergency surfacing.
"¢ Corrosion even though the boat is essentially new.
"¢ The replacement or moving of computer circuit boards because they did not meet safety standards.
"¢ Concern over the instruments monitoring the nuclear reactor because the wrong type of lead was used.
"¢ Questions being raised about the quality and installation of other pieces of equipment.
"¢ Concern reported among some crew members about the Astute's pioneering periscope, that does not allow officers to look at the surface "live".

The MoD confirmed Astute had suffered some "teething problems" during sea trials. "It is normal for first of class trials to identify areas where modifications are required and these are then incorporated into later vessels of the class," a spokesman said.

Though the MoD said it cannot discuss the speed of submarines, the spokesman said Astute would "provide an outstanding capability for decades to come".

However, if the propulsion problems persist, they would represent one of the biggest procurement disasters the MoD has ever had to deal with, and potentially leave the Astute fleet struggling to perform all the duties it was built for.

John Large, an independent nuclear safety analyst and specialist engineer, said: "These problems are much more significant than the niggles and glitches expected to arise during working up of a new class of nuclear-powered submarine. Particularly disturbing is the apparent mismatch between the nuclear reactor plant and the steam turbine sets, putting the submarine speed below par and making her susceptible in the anti-submarine warfare theatre."

The shadow defence secretary, Jim Murphy, said ministers "must be clear over the impact of any problems with this essential programme on timing and cost".

Even though the boat has yet to start formal service, Astute – four years overdue and £2bn over budget – has been surrounded by controversy since it was first commissioned 15 years ago. In 2010, it was marooned off Skye, a calamity that led to its commander being removed from post. Last year a senior officer was shot dead by a junior member of the crew.
The Guardian has learned that during exercises off the east coast of the United States, a cap on one of the pipes that takes seawater from the back of the submarine to the reactor sprang a leak. A compartment began flooding with seawater, forcing the commander to surface immediately. Though nobody was hurt, an investigation revealed a cap was made from the wrong metal, even though construction records said the right metal had been installed.

The cap was supposed to have been "level one quality assurance". This means that BAE, which is responsible for building the boat, is supposed to give it the highest scrutiny.

"The fact the cap failed is bad enough, but the most worrying thing is that there is no way of knowing whether the submarine has other pieces of equipment like this on board," said a source. "The quality assurance tests are there to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen, but it did. So what else has been installed that we don't know about? It is impossible to know. They fitted the wrong cap but it was still signed off."

The MoD confirmed that the incident had taken place. "During trials last year HMS Astute experienced a leak which was immediately isolated and the submarine returned safely to the surface," a spokesman said. "An investigation found one small part which had not been made of the correct material had corroded. A replacement was fitted at sea and the submarine continued with her programme. BAE Systems have carried out a full assessment which concluded all similar parts were fitted correctly."
Neither the MoD nor BAE was prepared to discuss how a cap made from the wrong metal had been fitted. BAE also declined to explain how it could be sure other parts were installed correctly when the quality assurance inventory system was proved to be flawed.

Some of the instruments which tell commanders about the state of the nuclear reactor were also feared compromised, the Guardian can reveal. The detectors which measure the power coming from the reactor are in a lead-lined water jacket that surrounds the reactor core.

The lead has to be "virgin" metal, mined from great depth, so that it does not carry any electrical charge of its own that could generate a false reading.

However, the lead used in Astute was not of the right quality, which means instruments gave incorrect readings. Using impure lead can also have a knock-on effect during maintenance – the charged metal can create increased and persistent radioactivity within the reactor compartment.

A source said this oversight was "unforgivable". Initially the MoD denied there was a problem with the reactor instruments. However, it then conceded the wrong lead had been used – but insisted tests showed the accuracy of the readings had not been affected. In addition, some of the small computer switchboards on Astute should have been placed six inches apart, but they were only one inch apart.

They did not conform to either naval or Lloyds civilian safety standards and are now having to be moved or replaced. The MoD says this work has been completed.

Of all the difficulties, it is the problems with propulsion which are the most sensitive. The MoD stated Astute would be able to make 29 knots, but the Guardian has been told it cannot do this.

Rather than building a new power plant for Astute, the MoD chose to use the Pressurised Water Reactor 2 (PWR2) from the much bigger Vanguard-class Trident submarines. It was linked to a steam turbine system based on the model used in the aged Trafalgar Class attack submarines.

"This was always likely to be a big problem, and so it has proved," said a source. "The PWR2 was meant for a much bigger boat, and Astute had to be designed around it. That may have cut costs, but it has caused problems. The power from the reactor does not translate into forward movement."

Large added: "So much promise was held out for the Astute class of nuclear powered submarine but these faults occurring during its commissioning into active/service, particularly in the propulsion system and its under-performance, suggest that the whole has been cobbled together from some ill-fitting parts – the real concern here is that these or similar mismatches will compromise nuclear safety at risk to crews and the public generally."

BAE Systems, which is responsible for building the Astute fleet, said: "Safety is of paramount importance to every stage of the design, build, test and trials of a submarine and is at the heart of everything we do. Before entering full service, every submarine is required to complete an exhaustive period of sea trials, which are designed to prove the vessel's capabilities. These trials also present an opportunity to improve performance by resolving any issues that may come to light during this time, which is not uncommon on a first-of-class submarine."
Slow, leaky, rusty: Britain's £10bn submarine beset by design flaws | UK news | The Guardian
 

manishhot

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What is use of arihant without long range missile, k 4 has only 700 km range, that is not enough for pak too
 

AVERAGE INDIAN

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What is use of arihant without long range missile, k 4 has only 700 km range, that is not enough for pak too
As India pursues the capacity to fire nuclear missiles from land, sea or air, the Navy now wants a well-balanced underwater strategic arm. This will include three SSBNs nuclear-powered submarines with long-range strategic missiles and six SSNs (nuclear-powered attack submarines) in the long-term..

But a fact glossed over in many reports is that the over 6,000-tonne INS Arihant will not be a fully-operational SSBN – it will be more of `a technology demonstrator' for the nuclear submarines to follow.

Also we haven't even seen the Arihant. Wait , and when more information is forthcoming (as opposed to the sum total of several bits of hearsay at present), we can conduct a more realistic analysis of its capabilities. Around that time, we'll also learn how ATV-2 and ATV-3 will differ, and from the rumours so far, they're likely to be bigger than the Arihant, with more VLS tubes, for one.
 

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